Illwinter Next Project
 

Will it be Dominions 4 ? :D

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

the last word was "no dom4 in the pipeline"
Looking historically at Illwinter I think their "next project" will still be CoE3 for quite awhile.

Id be happy just to see more patches. I keep making requests for CoE3 based on "like we had in Dom3" but a number of things have come out in the Conquest of Elysium 3 release which I would love to see ported backward also

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Dominions_4 would be 2020... at the earliest yet could be longer.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

I realize it is a ways away, but I'd like to see more control of the nations picked. Perhaps you equip units yourself (from a set list available to that nation) and have similar control over leaders and mages.

Also, what would be fun if mana wasn't so tied to special sites. In my limited experience, the nation focused on few elements (like the Agatha) will almost always have fewer gems than a nation like the T'ien C'hi (with more diverse magic). I realize that Agatha have other advantages, but it would be cool to see a way to equalize specialized nations and diverse nations when it comes to gem income (one suggestion would be more Gem Generating Globals or a Domain that is prone to produce a certain type of gem).

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

You mean like modding?
and then you mean like gem generator items?

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Gem-generating dominion is an interesting idea!

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Are you guys talking about a Dominions themed Bejeweled or something?

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Hmm, yeah that could have all kinds of interesting opportunities.

They could automatically generate certain kinds of gems based on nation and number of candles (dominion) or even terrain type or scales. It could also influence the effectiveness or amount of gems you get from sites.

Heck it could even generate a new holy gem type that harvests dominion that you could use to enhance or power up existing spells or items, or open up new holy production items or spells using Holy paths.

I like the enhancement idea although it may be a coding/stat tracking and balancing nightmare. Add some holy gems while making a 75% resist item and it becomes some % higher, or adds re-invigoration or something. Same could be used to add special effects to certain spells.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

No, not like modding, but actually having more options in the game itself. And no, not like Gem Generators items, I find those awkward and cumbersome.

I guess the best example I could come up with would be 4x games, like Fallen Enchantress, Master of Orion (create your own ships) Swords of the Stars and the like.

Also, Domain generated gems would be a great way for nations to specialize in a single magic, but not feel like they are handicapped in later games.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

There was some discussion on IRC at some point about making nations (well, this was actually probably mostly me throwing game ideas to be honest) more generic. For example take MA Marignon: you'd have your troop chassises and your equipment and could combine them as you like - probably with some limitations though, like maybe you couldn't make MA Vanheim skinshifters use spears or something.

Directly implemented to Dominions 3 this would be utterly stupid since item quality vs resource cost just simply isn't balanced and in most cases people would end up using very limited rosters. I mean, seriously, the armors are somewhat more balanced and getting extra prot usually means you'll need to actually sacrifice something, but if you have a spear or mace and a broad sword available, you just won't pick the mace for anyone who's going to fight in melee.

In general the idea is cool, but for Dominions game series I prefer having lovingly made nations with their own quirks instead of something very minmaxable. CoE3 (or hopefully streamlined Dominions 3 that isn't crap) could use a customization thing. Though I suppose if it's designed well it might work in Dominions too.

Also as UnitGen hopefully proves, implementing this is in no way impossible (the units can also look better and more unique, UnitGen just uses generic stuff with my not-so-awesome sprite editing skills), but it is extra work compared to just making nations like in Dominions 3.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

I have to say, I do like the concept and idea of the Unitgen mod of yours. I like were it is going. Well, Dominion 4 is a long way off, for now, I'll just enjoy all the mods that people have created for it.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

You might have liked a game Im watching get set up now in one of the Dom3 IRC channels. Its done as a draft pick
Each of the nations unit slots are done in a round of picks. Pretender, then Recruit Everywhere Commander, Recruit Everywhere Troop, Cap-Only Commander, Cap-Only Troop, capitol site gem income, etc etc. Each nation is built into one big mod, and the game starts.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

I think it'd be interesting if the game would have more dominion-neutral spots for longer. In my experience, there's little gradual change between two dominions. Your dominion falls sharply as you get to enemy lands, and vice versa.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Map size would lead directly to that.
Ive enjoyed games on really large maps. There is less emphasis on claiming everything. Some wilderness stays intact. People spend time finding and moving toward each other. Scouting becomes more important. Some nations such as Caelum and Pangaea move from "sucky" into a fairly high position. It definitely makes a different game

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Unfortunately you need the patience of a saint to endure a large map. I'm not criticising but personally I just can't cope.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Maps above 350 provinces take massive patience and one single turn can take multiple days especially for maps exceeding 500 provinces.
Maps of this massive size NEED to be using victory points otherwise the end game becomes boring for whoever is winning.

I can report of having enjoyed some great huge battles which will forever be great memories, so patience does provide some rewards. Also the computer opponent who provides the best late game spells outside and inside of combat is Neifielheim... so place him on the opposite side of the human players with extra starting provinces. Also Gandalf did some testing and found Formia is one of the best.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Sounds like little bit of the old dos classic game from SSI; Sword of Aragon. Every army units you have to equip - quite fun actually.

I can recommending that you try the game. It's a gem.
It runs out-of-box with dosbox/DBGL.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

I don't think I've played that one. I just remember how much fun it was to make my own ships in Master Orion 1 and 2.

Still, there is Fallen Enchantress out now. After I am done with the dozens of games I have to play, I might go for that.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

"out now", as in, there's a Beta, and no release date?

What are the "dozens" you have to play, I haven't found much since I got Dom 3 a couple years ago? (But I'm SP only, maybe that makes the difference.)

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Lets see, Morrowind,Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Cybermancy, Civilization 5, Sins of a Solar Empire, Age of Empires 3, Neverwinter Nights 2 (with Icewind Dale mod), Dungeon Defenders, War Winds (it kind of works on my computer), might try to beat Age of Wonders Shadow Magic, Planescape Torment, Sword of the Stars, Quest for Glory 2, 3 and 4 (1 I beat!), Warlords Battlecry 3 (enjoyed the game but I never beat the campaign). I think that covers most of the games. I'm sure I'm missing a few though.

Oh, and Warlock came out with a demo, so there is that too. And the new Tribes Game.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Thank you! I've played a few of those games, and I don't like them as much as Dom3 :(

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Pfff....I think the game is just fine as is. But....I would sure like to see a graphics overhaul. With the capability of true 3D now wouldnt this game be something if it were state of the art Graphically?

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Pros and Cons. It would be cool to see.
But 3D does slow the game down, and it definitely slows down player modding for the game.
Ive seen some of my favorite games die from going 3d.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Yeah, creating images is hard enough as is, making said images in 3d would make it impossible for me to work on our mod.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

3d would kill modding dead here, yeah. We don't really have modders who can do that sort of art, and 3d makes it a lot harder to produce art for the game. Dominions could certainly benefit from being prettier, but 3d... meh. I think the sprites overhaul sombre is working on right now is a much better solution than going 3d. Unfortunately there's some things we just can't realistically change with mods, but we can certainly do a lot to improve on some of the older sprites. If you want to see dominions look better, lend a hand there!

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Technically nothing prevents having 3d models and sprites side by side, expect it probably looking pretty weird. Depends on the models though. That said I do kind of doubt it'd be very feasible to make Dominions 3 battles really 3D. There are potentially like 10k units there anyway, and if the 3D models have to be simplified too much for that it'll just end looking like crap compared to well drawn sprites.

Sombre's sprite improvement project really makes sprites look well drawn too. So many Dominions 3 sprites are legacy stuff from the original Dominions that it's no wonder they don't look as good as some of the new stuff. Especially the illithids stick out when you compare them.

But yeah, regardless the biggest thing is that in general drawing sprites for Dominions 3 is very easy. I am no artist at all and yet I still dare to claim that Bubastis, Al-Nadim and UnitGen stuff all look at the very least decent.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

That's not exactly true. Back in late 90s, being a part of Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures (FRUA) scene, I predicted Neverwinter Nights to fail for this very reason, that producing quality 3d models would be too much of a task for would-be modders. Apparently, I was dead wrong, and NWN modding scene thrives to this day. Of course, that might also have something to do with the fact NWN was about 100 times as popular as FRUA at its heyday.

What is certain though, is that making 2 thousands 3d models for Dominions would cost Illwinter an unimaginable fortune. Even AAA titles with an 8-digital production budget rarely exceeed 50-100 unit models. For something as vast (and niche) as Dom, "modern graphics" are absolutely out of the question until some arabian petroleum sheikh gets a fancy to fund it out of sheer generosity.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

I don't know what the scene was like for one particular game, but dom3 is definitely a game with a much smaller following than NWN had. And we have a very small number of modders. I don't know of any of our modders that specifically can make good 3d models, but I know we have some that definitely can't. And sprites are already the primary bottleneck for mod-making. Increasing the difficulty in producing usable images would mean that, for this community, modding would not be viable and basically every current nation mod would disappear.

And yeah, illwinter making thousands of 3d models is never going to happen.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

The thing with NWN is too that you can create A TON of content without creating new models at all. In Dominions 3 majority of possible content needs spritework currently (maps and mods) and would probably need 3D modelling in the future.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

It would be cool to control your troops in battle , not beeing tide by scripts.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Sounds good.
But even if it could be done with a simple upgrade of the coding, I cant see how it would work very well for direct control in combat. It seems that the combat mode we have now is what makes the games possible that are being played now. Multiplayer games across time zones with turns days apart. or playing by email where each turn is mailed into the server. Or even just the ability for any player to also be a host since Id suspect the hosting requirement for a direct-action game would be much heavier?

Id hate to lose those. There are plenty of direct-control games out there and damn few turn-based like this one.
Besides, the non-direct control with your units having the ability to sometimes disagree with you does seem to fit the "pretender gods" theme

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

In addition to the above, the scripted combat is actually very different from most games out there, and in my opiniion it's fundamentally different in a rather good way. Fundamentally, because the scripting UI and options could be improved quite a bit. Sure, there isn't really a Dominions 3 for every option, but in the sci-fi 4x field I actually wish I'd get a 4x game with Dominions 3 style combat (Gratuitious Space Battles has pretty close to what I want!)

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Couldn't you make one as a mod from dominions?

Change the map to Stars/planets.

Most units have map move 0. Ships have map move - allowing them to move between worlds

Change the spells to a spell jammer mottiff.. sounds like you could.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

so has anyone released a mod with all redone sprites for DOM3 Vanilla?

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Sombre, banned from these forums for reasons that cannot be discussed without risking getting banned, has updated quite a few sprites.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

iirc, some old 4x games only allowed you to do scripting on your ships. But they didn't have simultaneous turns iirc.

Don't know which one.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

That sounds like the Space Empires games, but could probably be a couple of others too.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

Space Empires allows some tactics, but it's very simple.

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

I'm quite a few digits short of funding tummy tucks* and face lifts for our little sprite friends but it got me thinking about what the source code for dom3 would go for, and, if released into the wild, would the community have the gas to recode and enhance other aspects of the game. I know it has been mentioned in the past but those discussions may predate many of the current forum crew.
-ssj

*Great Mother

Re: Illwinter Next Project
 

*eyes air bless lovingly*

:)