Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

What do you consider to be best conjurable units in the game? By that I mean by taking into consideration following factors:

- Number of units when conjured
- Quality of the unit(s)
- Cost in gems
- Required magic paths
- Required research level in order to conjure

Thus far, I've only really been conjuring Iron Dragons and they are lategame stuff, so it would be nice to hear what are your favorites.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Summon animals is a nice early game summon

you get 25+ animals for 15 nature gems

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

this doesn't answer your question but there are certain summons who's efficiency can be maximized by the caster.

A few examples:

• Ghosts are summoned at a rate dependent upon the caster's death magic rating. So its low efficiency with a low death magic caster but increasingly better with better death magic.
• Lamias are summoned at a rate dependent upon the caster's nature magic and lamia queens and some pretenders get a bonus to summon these. So if you have a high nature lamia queen available, or a very high nature serpent king, then these become very high efficiency summons.
• Drakes and Wyverns are summoned at a rate of 3 per summon when the caster has 'dragon master' (enchantment 3) but only at a rate of 1 per cast otherwise so the efficiency of summoning them is tripled with the 'dragon master' spell (which costs i think 5 nature gems?)

Personally the value of summons is completely dependent upon your strategy. I don't think of any of the summons as stand-alone troops but rather consider how they are synergizing with the rest of my strategy. Ghosts by themselves are not great. Ghosts in the dark with cold-generating, cold-immune units, maybe with a wailing wind or rain of blood are suddenly much much better.

So efficiency counts but then so does use.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

I'm surprised no one mentioned legion of wights. You get 20 for 25D gems, but with some buffs they are more than troops, they are like mini-thugs.

Also the various blood summons, devils and others are quite cost effecive in the sence that by late game you get 100+ blood slaves per turn and you can summon loads of these.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

The Summon Konoha Tengu spell which Yomi/Shinuyama/Jomon gets access to is very nice as of CBM 1.92. A single A1E1 caster spending 2 air gems gets you 5 sacred flying bird samurai (with katanas) who can throw lightning and fly during a storm. And the spell is only conjuration-3. That summon has been used to such good effect in our MA Jomon trial game that we're having to experiment with several balancing changes to the nation.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

In CBM, Zmeys are the best possible use of fire gems.
Shishis are also pretty cost-effective.
In Vanilla, tartarians.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Sandhyabalas. Esp with darkness.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

If we're going with national spells. In CBM MA Mans wrath of Avalon is crazy efficient for chaff generation. Cast it with an N random crone with a thistle mace and you're getting almost 2 ogres per N gem. And the spell is available very early.

Another good one in CBM is the Kithriotic lion, at 4 N gems. High HP, good protection, good moral and magic resistance. Three 20+ damage attacks at 16 attack. The bite attack now has a charge bonus. But the big thing CBM gives them is fear on top of it all. If you're summoning them you're one of the nature powers, so spam panic at the same time you deploy them, and use the stealth or thugs most nature powers also have to cut off the retreats. Bonus points for false horror spam at the same time.

With the buffs to animals some of the other animal spells start to become attractive as well. Lions are great flankers, and pride of lions is pretty cheap at 17 lions for 10 N gems. Animal hoard is also pretty good, not as a combat spell but as a quick way to get chaff to hold up walls during a siege. One casting gets you a huge amount of high strength creatures perfect for holding up walls.

On the siege front, rocs are also one of the most cost effective means of getting a high siege bonus. Compare to Siege golems or gate cleavers at 15 E gems a piece. But add in the rocs great mobility, halfway decent thugging capability, and great anti thugging uses, and you have a pretty good gate smasher. Use them as patrollers when not needed on the war front.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

For troop summons in CBm its hard to beat the Hidden in Sand/Snow spells. You get some 25-50 elite undead troopers with heat/cold auras + a powerful mage on average. I once saw a single castings worth of hidden in snow troops (about 30), kill two kitted Zmeys in a battle taking only a handful of casualties. The cold auras froze them unconscious in 2-3 turns and even after loosing heads they could not flee. A casting of these spells cost 35/40 in CBM and the battle did not include the mage. Two kitted Zmeys cost around 90 gems by comparison.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Animals cannot use hammers.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Apparently they can in the world of dominions. Only mindless units get the siege penalty.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Problem is that you have to catch the Zmey with your hidden in sand forces. Not an easy task, and there are a whole lot more easy counters to undead than there are to a kitted out Zmey.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

There are actually 2 units that get the siege penalty, the birds from call of winds, and one other unit I forgot.

The manual is wrong where it says animals get a siege penalty.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Sorry to offtopic but I was under the impression that animals got a penalty to maintain walls but could pull them down just fine. Is this incorrect?

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

That is incorrect, only 2 units get a malus. The little birds from call of winds (and any of those you get from call animals) and a nation summon somewhere, and the malus is actually a siege attack penalty, not a siege defense penalty.

Mindless units get a defense penalty, but no offensive penalty.

And meanads get a patrol penalty.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

oh... i've been playing the monkey nations wrong then.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

I'm with Immaculate in believing that, in addition to everything Soyweiser describes, all animals get a siege *defense* malus.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Corpse constructs with the proper gear.

Lighting proof they are...

With storm demons they have a great synergy...

:D

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

I'd heard the same thing. But then the monkey nations would have a heck of a time defending any castle.

It's Pretty easy to test. I just summoned up some lions sent them off to siege and defend. Takes 18 str 10 humans to balance out 8 str 15 lions both on attack and defense. Which is what you expect with siege str = (str^2)/100. Conclusion, no siege penalty for animals, unless there are certain ones that get one and certain ones that don't. Buts its not a blanket penalty.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

If you cast the ritual spell 'Opposable Thumbs' your summoned animals have full siege effects.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

I'm picturing a lion with a hammer in it's teeth. Maybe they have them doing things like carrying stones and mortar around in baskets strapped to their backs. Or maybe all the Dom 3 animals are just that awesome.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Here are the correct siege mechanics for those interested. (if you find them useful then please don't thank me, thank Lch, as it's all his work and effort, not mine)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...786#post685786


@llama - You seem to be unlearning what you've learnt. The Dominions road ahead will be long and tough if this continues.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...70&postcount=8

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Yes, I can guarantee that summon animals is super effective for repairing walls. The hawks drop stones in the wolves'maws, who then send it to the lions, who hold them in place while the spiders use their webs to hold everything in place.

Re: Most cost-efficient conjurable units?
 

Lol. Bring back memories of Threefort where I spammed call of the winds to keep you out of my cap? :p

One of the things I like about the lord of the forest is picturing meese manning the walls of TNN's forts.

While I don't like using N gems for anything other than forging and global casting, summon animals gets nice results when cast underwater. And as an added bonus archers can't tear them apart.

As far as best troop summon, I'll go with demons because they're excellent units and don't cost gems.