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Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Samhain/Fomoria wins!
5 Attachment(s)
Do you love SCs and late game magic? Then this isn't the game for you. ;) But if you like moving your national armies around without fear of master enslave or rain of stones, if you like calling down thunderstrikes and gifts from heaven, if you like gearing out thugs and summoning monsters - in short if your favorite part of the game is the midgame then this might be just what you're looking for.
This is the latest in a series of games in which the central theme is to limit magic to midgame levels. The most recent, Faded Magic, is still running. Faded Magic was the first of these games to run under CBM 1.92 instead of 1.6. This game will be the first time one takes place in the EA instead of MA. Game summary * CBM 1.92 with magic limited to level 6 (with a few exceptions - see change log). Blood magic also nerfed (but still quite usable IMO). * One exception to the level 6 max magic rule is that monsters (defined as creatures without full slots) also make the cut. Dragons have also been added as a summon. * Limited changes made to nations/summons to reflect unusual settings (see change log). Settings Age: EA Players: Approx. 8 Diplomacy: None Banned nations: all water nations Hosting: llamaserver Hosting interval: 24 hours up to turn 20, 48 hours up to turn 40, 72 hours from then on Mods: modified version of CBM 1.92 (attached to post) Map: Plane of Rusty Nails with 9 fixed starts HoF: 15 Research: Easy (this is an important one - while the hosting schedule is relaxed, we will be getting to the action very quickly) All other settings default Exploits: Don't use them. Also: Please do not go AI! Lost all your forts and having nothing left but an indie commander and some militia? Please still play it to the end. Thanks! Player Roster ghoul31 - Hinnom HoleyDooley - Ermor KeithZ - Sauromatia Ossa - Ulm Samhain - Fomoria shard - Lanka shonuf/Larz (as of turn 24) - Caelum tratorix - Abysia Valerius - TNN Change log Nation changes -------------- Hinnom: Summon Se'irim - 42 slaves Summon Shedim - 32 slaves Acha do not have healing Jotun: skratti - +1 enc in werewolf form Pan: No maenad spawning; summon maenad spell (10/1 N gem) No carrion centaur/lady/lord; national version of construct manikin (10/3 N gems) Gorgon - removed One of the free spawn nations, was initially banned and later allowed in with the changes above. I played them two games ago and chose a gorgon pretender who IMO is OP for these settings (I stopped using her midgame because of this) so she's out as well. Lanka: Summon Dakini - 100 slaves Agartha: No darkness on PD Paths of the Deep 5 --> 7 gems Eriu: Sidhe Lord - no autoentangle Van: Vanjarl 240 --> 280 gold Summons ------- Zmey Prot decreased by 4 points to 18 and misc slots from 3 to 2 (I know usually all three slots aren't used but the increased cost of the lychantropos' amulet may change this). Importantly, the zmey now has map move 2, not 3. Ettin Cost increased to 20 gems and level to 6. Wendigo Wendigo has fixed magic at W2D2 and autocasts soul vortex. Development speed is greatly increased: size 2 the first turn, size 3 (with 50 HP) the second turn, and final size of 4 (and 71 HP) the following turn. Tartarian Monstrum Two level two randoms and two misc slots (as well as a head slot) mean they provide the best magic diversity around. High HP and flight and the chance of A/S magic also means they can fulfill a raiding role. Don't have shattered soul or come with afflictions. Dragons Combat spellcasters and raiders. They have level 3 F/W/N magic, base MR of 20, and head + 2 misc slots. The fire dragon is the best offensively: with a reinvig item, skull of fire and phoenix power he's a falling fires machine. The frost dragon is amphibious and the forest dragon has recuperation. Iron Dragon Is now a commander summon (with 2 misc slots) and receives an additional claw attack. Many resistances out-of-the-box but still has horrible MR and limited (without buffs/gear) damage potential. Spell changes ------------- No globals No reason to hoard gems. Provinces = power so use your gems to summon and forge so you can get more provinces. Restore Soul - 10 gems Normally this is for tarts - here it's basically to avoid umbral thugs being too cheap. Darkness - D5 / 5 gems Hard to cast normally, even harder to cast here. Iron Bane - E5 / 5 gems More difficult to cast and much more expensive Leprosy - 8 --> 15 gems, MRN easily Afflictions are serious business here without GoH, chalice or even faery queens. Horror Mark - costs 1 gem Don't like this spell and don't want people who go with SC pretenders to have them sidelined that easily. Communion Master/Slave - increase fatigue 20-->30 No rain of stones makes life a lot safer for communions. Bit of an increase in fatigue to offset this. Transformation - level 7 spell but stays in A level 7 spell that I'm just keeping in for the fun of it. Weapons Sharpness - level 7 spell but stays in with aoe 2 A powerful level 7 spell that I'm deliberately leaving in since I think it has an important role to play against thugs and monsters. AOE much smaller, though. Everything below here is blood nerfs because I think it's a good idea (something to keep in mind is that given the limited research you won't have much of an opportunity cost for blood hunting - combine that with growth scales and blood will be a powerhouse even with some of these cost increases and spell eliminations). Sabbath Master/Slave - fat 100, costs 1 slave Rain of Toads - 20 slaves / level 6 Send Lesser Horror - 15 slaves Bind Succubus - 66 --> 55 slaves (ok, this price is actually decreased as I don't know why this unit is that expensive) Ritual of the Five Gates - 24 --> 30 slaves Blood rite, blood rain, bloodletting, hellbind heart, bind ice devil, infernal disease - removed Magic item changes ------------------ No unique items Bane venom charm - 15 gems Afflictions are serious business here without GoH, chalice or even faery queens. Lychantropos' amulet - 10 gems 5N is too cheap when you consider the aggravation this causes with commanders picking it up. Also, this makes it less of a no-brainer for zmeys. Soul contract and lifelong protection removed. Misc changes ------------ Removed bugged ettin site Note to anyone downloading the no indie Fivelands maps: the 5lands3.zip file has the same .map that is on the llamaserver. The earlier two zip files had an error in that province 65 was not marked as being NI. |
Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
I'm intrigued... and I've been wantnig to play with Valerius again... put me down for Helheim...
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
Nice to play with you again! And I'm glad you stuck in there after feeling kind of down with how things went in Game of Dorian. Obviously things have started clicking since I see you're now winning games. Best of all, it appears you're a convert to the glamour nation fan club. :) Fun nations, aren't they (and strong as well in 1.92 - especially the bloodthirsty ones of Van/Hel)?
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
trying to play this mod as Niefel crashes when I go to recruitment saying it can't find worth heroes..
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
Hold on, I'll take a look now. I think somehow I messed up some paths when building test mods and it looks like that carried over into this mod.
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
think I'm going to go to bed actually...will check it out tomorrow... thinking about switching off Helheim.. these changes make it feel more like a weaker TNN... need to dink around some more.. not sure my normal approach works as well anyway..
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
Mod has been updated and should fix the missing graphic problem. Same filename but in the mod list it will have v2 at the end of the name rather than v1.
Does Helheim feel weaker because of the overall changes or just from the Vanjarl price increase? In any case, I'll keep you with Helheim for now (though I think Niefel will be a terror, skratti encumbrance increase or not). |
Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
I'm in..nation TBA.
HD |
Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
Welcome!
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
For anyone reading this and wondering WTF to make of these rules I thought I'd mention a few things.
First, evo. magic has done quite well in these games. Massed magma eruption is ... very good. Even with the bump in fatigue, communions still have huge potential - and without the risk of rain of stones you'd face in a normal game. Having said that, this is the first game to be played in the thug/SC rich EA and I expect those units will play a significant role here. Second, keep in mind the unique attributes of your nation and how the limited magic affects their utility. For instance, in Faded Magic I'm playing Caelum. Flight is, of course, a great advantage. And with these rules it synergizes really nicely with the large number of flying monster summons (zmey, rocs, monstrums, dragons). Slap some flying boots on a full slot thug or two and perhaps some particularly good indie mages and you've got an incredibly mobile army. And - this is the best part - you can't be nuked by flames from the sky or spammed with remote assassinations (they can hit you with some low level remote attacks but these are manageable). Or let's take Pan. Their trademark is recuperation. And this is a game without GoH, the chalice or even faerie queens. Want to know one of the reasons I bumped up the price of bane venom charms? Because a couple of games ago I holed up in my forts, spamming maenads, while bane venom charms afflicted the besiegers. Call it C'tis lite. :p As an aside, while many would consider the removal of maenad free spawn a nerf, one upside is that it means you can sneak your Pans around without having them risk broadcasting their location. Talking about blood for a moment, I obviously have some nerfs to blood magic in here but I think blood nations are still quite playable. And while the limited magic removes many endgame strategies blood sac nations still have the possibility of going for dom kills. So think along those lines in terms of choosing a nation/strategy. |
Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
Hinnom
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
Caelum please.
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
I'd like to join - I'll choose a nation later this evening.
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Re: Legends - EA, No diplo, CM 1.92, limited magic - Recruiting!
Welcome everyone!
That brings us to 9 players. Guess I'll hold it open a bit longer to see if we can get an even 10, though that makes for a large game by my standards. ;) |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - 1 spot left!
Kailasa please.
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - 1 spot left!
I'll take Ulm
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - 1 spot left!
Ya.. think I will move into Nief.. will comment on Helheim thing later..
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Design pretenders
Welcome, tratorix! Ossa and Austen, nation assignments have been updated.
I'll start searching for a map. Since we ended up with 10 players I'll be looking for something at the 12 prov/player end of the spectrum rather than 15. Map suggestions are of course welcome. Some water is nice to break up the map and let amphibious/sailing nations use those aspects of their nation but of course not too much. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Design pretenders
Ermor thanks.
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Design pretenders
Ok, all nations have been chosen. Of course if anyone wants to change that's no problem.
I'll have the game setup on the server tomorrow. Just a reminder to select easy research when testing. And of course if anyone thinks they've found a bug please let me know. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Design pretenders
The game is ready for pretenders. The average number of provinces/player is higher than I had in mind but I'm inclined to go with Plane of Rusty Nails for a map because Calahan recently created a version with 10 fixed land starts and 1 water start. Since we are all land nations the water start should just be ignored.
You can find the map (and elmokki's other maps) here. Note that Calahan didn't post the .map file so the starts would be a surprise so when you download the map you won't see those start locations. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
And just a reminder that when creating your pretender you only want the game mod active - not CBM (since the game mod includes a modified version of CBM).
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Hey,
Just tried to submit my pretender but got this: I received a pretender file from you, but unfortunately your pretender file is for Early Age Caelum, while the game 'Legends' is set in the Middle Age. Please try again with a pretender for the Middle Age. Details of your e-mail: Subject: Legends Sent at: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 22:13:48 +0200 Attachment: early_caelum_8.2h |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
same here
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Sorry about that; I guess I'm just used to playing all these low magic games in the MA. ;) Era has now been changed to EA.
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
OK.. I ended up rolling TC.. which is clearly going to end in disaster.. but there it is... I'm in now in any case..
Re: Helheim, I just think that with the disappearance of their lategame strengths, compounded with the blood and Van nerfs, there's not much reason to play them when TNN is in the game... they become pretty inferior in most ways.. Honestly, I can't think of a game setup that would be more in favor of TNN.. all of their strengths are kept completely intact (and many are accentuated by the easy research) while all their endgame deficiencies are washed away. Nerfing the midgame blood just makes it even more pronounced. I explored Nief, but I have never played them and I couldn't make a build that emphasized the things I think are likely to be important and still have any sort of economy. In my tests, I just couldn't ever solve the money problems. Prob a me problem, but that I couldn't solve it.. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Quote:
Are you interested in playing TNN? If so, I could choose a different nation (probably Van, Hel or Pan). Quote:
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
[quote=Valerius;810709
I agree completely that TNN's time is the mid-game. All I can say is the game certainly wasn't designed to favor my nation. I've run several of these low magic games and played Eriu, Van, Pan, Caelum and now TNN which, if you're familiar with my nation choices, is actually less TNN/Eriu/glamour than is typical for me. ;) Are you interested in playing TNN? If so, I could choose a different nation (probably Van, Hel or Pan).[/QUOTE] I wasn't trying to imply that you were putting in the fix and I know you love some TNN ;) By all means, you should play them.. I was just bringing these things up regarding making Helheim/Vanheim mostly superfluous... there's just no reason to play them instead of TNN in this setup... |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Hmm, well it may certainly be the case that under these settings TNN wins the battle for best glamour nation but looking at it in a larger sense are Van/Hel competitive under these settings? Because that's really what I'm aiming for - that every nation has a chance.
And I think the key question for those two is whether blood is a viable option. When I played Van the blood summon prices were *really* high (ex. 50 slaves for ritual of the five gates). But I was still able to get good mileage out of blood magic on the battlefield, in particular bloodletting (which I removed from the next game as being too much for these settings). Here I've only bumped up ritual of the five gates and a few national summons in cost so considering there's little opportunity cost in lost research to blood hunting like crazy I think it should be quite possible to mass blood troop summons. And of course you can reverse communion thugs just like Niefel. If there were something I'd change it would probably be the cost increase to Vanjarls since I was kind of on the fence about that anyway. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Changed my nation pick to Abysia and submitted my pretender.
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Great, I heard back from Ossa as well and he'll have his pretender in tonight, which just leaves shard. I know he's interested in playing but I'm not sure if he's around the forum much so I'm still waiting to hear from him.
Darn it, Austen. I have this bad habit of switching my nation repeatedly before a game begins. This time around I was quite good as I had a TNN build I really wanted to play and I was sticking with it. But then you got me thinking about Helheim. I've never played them before and one reason (aside from the fact I don't like D magic much ;)) is that I really like the first round, no booster required, fog warriors casters the other glamour nations have. So, I'm more likely to play Helheim under these settings than otherwise. In short, I'm switching to Helheim and TNN is available. Which may be a good thing anyway since we seem a bit light on blood nations - perhaps because a lot of people feel they're overnerfed. I don't think they are but this way I'll get to see firsthand. :p |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
After some test yesterday, I want to switch to Sauro.
Valerius，could you help me delete the Yomi pretender I have submited? |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Uhhh... I may move into TNN... maybe turn off autostart? I need to make/test a build.. will do it no later than tomorrow.
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Quote:
Quote:
I already have autostart off in order to avoid false starts. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Hi thanks for the direct e-mail valerius
Been travelling on a few continents too many and I forgot my login/pw - but managed to log in thanks to the link. I'm going to try a few test builds and may have another look at my nation pick so please bear with me for a bit longer >< |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Quote:
I sent in a pretender for Helheim but while it's nice being able to summon monstrums with my national mages I'm finding I miss those A3/4s for storm casting and thunderstriking. So, I'm thinking of switching to Van if shard doesn't want them (not sure which other nations he's considering) or back to TNN if Austen doesn't want them. But my main thing is I don't want to hold up the game so whatever Austen and shard decide on I'll work around that and take what's left of the glamour nations or Pan. So please send in whatever pretenders you decide on and I'll have four pretenders ready to go depending on what nations are left. Those of you who have had your pretenders in for a while, thanks for your patience - we'll get this started soon! :) |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
OK.. uploaded TNN...
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
I hate to be the problem child here, but I think I am going to need to sit this game out. My wife is in the hospital and things aren't going well and I'm starting a new job and I don't think it makes much sense for me to start any new games right now.
I'm really sorry for being such a nuisance, but I didn't foresee these events when I signed up. I think it prob makes more sense for me to step down now before the game starts than to be a drag on the whole game. Again, I'm really sorry :( |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
No worries; RL always takes precedence. Best wishes to your wife, I hope she feels better soon (and good luck on the new job as well of course).
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
Ok guys, I see Bullock uploaded a 9 fixed start location version of Plane of Rusty Nails for the Silence is Golden game. In order to get things started I'm going to go with this version of the map. You can see the start locations here.
I'll have my TNN pretender uploaded shortly and start the game. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
god i wish i could get in on this. alas, im afraid i'd mess it all up. valerius, i hope you will put together a game like this this winter. i'd love to get in.
good luck all. i hate the late game! |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
I'm not much of a fan of the late game myself, partly because of the micro (which these settings don't help with) and partly because I don't find SCs and late game magic as much fun as the midgame stuff.
I'm sure I'll admin more of these. Early winter sounds about right - unless I get knocked out of this early, then it will be much sooner. :p |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Send pretenders
The game has begun! I hope everyone enjoys it. :)
Please remember that there is no diplomacy - either in game or out of it. So no NAPs, trading, etc. You'll have to decide the best course of action for your nation based on the graphs and your scouting reports. Also, please fight it out to the end. And keep in mind that with the limited magic comebacks from bad situations are certainly possible. If, after being in a bad position, you claw your way back to be equal with another nation in gems/gold you won't find yourself facing an insurmountable research lead or a game winning global you can do nothing about. Sure, if your opponent has had it easier he'll have more forces, which will give him an initial advantage, but if you can pull off a win or two to equalize things then going forward you're on equal terms. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
*%$#@! I made a major mistake and didn't set the game to easy research. I just realized now when I was updating the player roster and saw the game settings. Really sorry about this, but unless everyone is ok with continuing I think we'll need to restart since I expect people chose their pretenders builds based on easy research.
Please let me know your opinions. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
I'm Ok either way. But, I agree we should restart with the settings everyone expected and planned for. And, certainly at this stage, it's no big deal.
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
Yeah a restart is no big problem at turn 1.
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
Im good with it too; do we have to resend our pretenders?
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Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
I agree with all of you that a restart is best. I'm going to go ahead and do that. I don't think (hope) we'll need to resend pretenders.
After this false start I also took a look at the start locations and I think a few of them are definitely better than others so I'm going to take a look at that and maybe switch them around a bit and also open recruitment again in case we can get a 10th person before I get around to switching the start locations. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - 1 more player needed!
Ok, game is restarted and fortunately kept our pretenders.
I'm taking a look at the start locations now and have reopened recruitment in case we can get another player in the next few hours. |
Re: Legends - EA, no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - 1 more player needed!
I have sent a PM to parone to join the game. Sad to see Austen have to pull out (he will resurface elsewhere in his Helheim disguise), but parone has already indicated he would like to join this game, only it would screw with the numbers.
Parone is always a hoot to play with. HD |
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