newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

I think it would be dead useful if you tyros out there would set out some chapter and verse on ship and fleet strategy. By this, I do not mean preferences for design and handling of ships, I am thinking of something more practical.

I for one am confused about all the different strategy sections of the various menus - ie which one should I be using for default strategy for a fleet? what one is default strategy for a particular ship? how do I put in strategy commands for a specific battle etc.

Practical suggestions would be well useful

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

If you have missile ship, use Max Weapons Range. Make sure to change the secondary strategy for this one from Point Blank to Optimal, cause you don't want your missile ships to be right up in the front lines.

For direct fire ships, I mostly use Short Weapons Range, or sometimes Optimal Range.

If you have Talismans, then it is usually a good idea to go with Max Weapons Range so that you can get the most out of your 100% to hit. At long ranges, your enemies will have a hard time of shooting at you, while you can't miss. This also works with Wave-Motion Guns and Anti-Matter Torpedos, cause they get natural to-hit bonuses (which you have to look in components.txt for, cause they are not listed inside the game).

[Edit]If your direct fire ships get a lot of experience (as in 30 or more), then it might be a good idea to set their strategy to Max Range. Their experience will allow them to hit at longer ranges, so take advantage of this. Your enemy's ships will have a harder time hitting you, while your experienced ships will still be able to hit most of the time.[/Edit]

It is a good idea to change every strategy so that all vehicles break formation. This eliminates the ships scrambling into fleet formation while moving themselves out of weapons range. This also allows your ships to use their individual design strategies, instead of the generic fleet strategy. This allows for more effective combined-arms fleets, because your direct fire ships will move into range, while the missile ships will stay towards the back, removing them from the direct fire weapons of your enemies.

[Edit]
For a fleet with only one class of weapons, just set the fleet to the same strategy that you have the ships set to (ie Max Range for missiles or Short/Optimal for direct fire). For a combined-arms fleet, it can get trickier. If your fleet has a large majority of one type of ship, then set the fleet strategy to that of the majority. If the ratio is roughly equal, then it depends on your enemies for which strategy it is best to set it to. If the enemy uses a lot of missile ships, then you should use Short Weapons Range so that you can try to close in with the direct fire ships. If your enemy uses mostly direct fire, then set the fleet to Max Range, so that you can minimize the enemies opportunities to fire. Of course, if you set all ships to break formation, then all of this because irrelevant because your ships will use their own strategy and ignore the fleets. Of course, you need to make sure that you set every ship design's strategy in the ship design window, or else they will use Optimal Range, which could be bad.

And also, do not trust the combat simulator for how your ships will perform in real game experiences. Basically, the simulator is a POS, and it is not always accurate.
[/Edit]

[ 14 January 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Thanks IF - useful tips there - my question however is how do you change the strategies - strategies seem to be in about 10 different places - on your ship in the design ship screen, on the empire status system and accessable by the pawn icon on the toolbar

what does what? it is confusing

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

actually IF, completely ignore my response below, you have explained a lot of what goes on

So if I get this right, when you design the ship, make sure you set its strategy (max for missile ships, short range/optimal for close assault types)

when you create a fleet, the strategy bit there (ie the prawn) allows you to set the limited options (formation, primary strategy and secondary strategy (what's the difference by the way)

how does the exceedingly complex strategy board in the empire status window link in to all this?

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

"how does the exceedingly complex strategy board in the empire status window link in to all this?"

That board *makes* the strategies you assign later. When you assign a fleet strategies, you can only pick formation and strategy; the "secondary strategy" bit comes from the empire status window strategy page. EDIT: And what it does is tell the ship what to do if I can't do it's primary strategy. Say you set it to "short range, Don't Get Hurt". If your ship cannot close to short range with it's target, it will run away.

So:
-the empire status window (and anything that looks like it) *creates* strategies and edits existing ones
-The strategy box in design creation assigns strategies for individual ship class
-the pawn assigns strategies for fleets, as well as formation

For mixed-ship fleets, I find the best thing to do is set them to break formation.

Phoenix-D

[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

"Break formation" is almost always better than holding formation, because of the aforemetioned problem with ships flying out of range of enemy ships to hold the formation. But, I can think of one exception, in the case of Capture Planet.

Say you have a fleet with mostly warships and a troop transport (with troops on it, naturally). The way the strategies are set up by default, the warships will pound the planet to smithereens before the troop transport will get there. So, I've changed 'Capture Planet' to (a) thwack enemies till all weapons are gone, and (b) dole out less than 100% damage on the planet. But, if the ships were set to break formation, the warships would revert back to the ship designs' default planet-pounding strategy. If the ships do not break formation from a fleet set to Capture Planet, the warships shouldn't eradicate the planet before the troop transport gets there. (At least that's been my experience.)

Tangential question: if a ship is set to break formation from a fleet, does it still get the fleet's experience bonus?

Quikngruvn

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Tangential question: if a ship is set to break formation from a fleet, does it still get the fleet's experience bonus?<hr></blockquote>

Yes.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Thanks! (Whew, for a while there I thought I was going to have to completely redo my tactics....)

Quikngruvn

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

I have lost whole fleets of 30 ships because I forgot to make sure the fleet breaks formation when it meets anything.

If the leader cannot move then the fleet does not move.

Your fleet dies.

so make sure you break formation, even if it is because the fleet needs to stop for some coffee.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Yeah, in my first post I said that it would be good to set all strategies to break formation a couple of times. Formations are nice for starting positions, but thats about all.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

alright, cue howls of laughter and derisive comments

where the flipping nora is the break formation button - I can't find the wretched thing anywhere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

I would make a comment but it took me 8 minutes to find it and I've been practicing with it all along.
Empire &gt; Strategies &gt; Formations &gt;
There is a list of "Types that break formation"
Choose the ones that you want to do so.
&lt; wry grin &gt; no , make that a &lt; poker face &gt;

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Just be sure to change those settings for every strategy you plan to use (or all of 'em, to play it safe). I've been burned at least once when I changed the strategy of a fleet but forgot to make the new strategy break formation.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Quikngruvn

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

PsychoTechFreak,
Using standard SE IV,
Once you have clicked on Formations
You must click on each of the items you listed
You will be provided with:
Bases
Ships
Carriers
Colony Ships
Fighters
Satelights
Mines
Planets
Transports
Bases (no weapons)
Ships (no weapons)
For each strategy on the left, you can select or de-select the desired "Types That Break Formation" strategy on the right.
This is so you can customise the strategy taken based on the type of Attack Strategy you have assigned to a type of ship.
Based on earlier post, it looks like you would want to set this for each strategy.
Possibly with Kamakazi or "Capture Enemy Ships" you may want them to all move in together so they strike at the same time. I don't know if that works. I have not figured out how Mines, Planets, Bases, or Satelites break formation. Neither have I figured out if their is an advantage to it.
Good luck.
Just a thought, but why would I want to capture Allied Ships? &lt; bemused grin &gt;

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Capture AI ships and use them or take them back to be analyzed for tech.

I recommed you break formation on everything .

And all non fighting ships to ram.

Hey there only going to die anyway.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

tesco, Thanks, I forgot to program in the non fighting ships RAM, but I do it in Tactical. However: in early games I have rammed Escorts and Frigates with Colony Ships and survived to actualy colonize a planet.
"It ain't over till it's Over and the crew is sucking space"
(paraphrased by Gryphin with apologies to the original author)

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Lovely, but I still have no idea how to create the strategy "break formation". Since it does not appear with the standard strats, I would have to add it manually: "B-R-E-A-K F-O-R-M-A-T-I-O-N", but I don't think the ships would do what I want them to do.

EDIT: Got it, finally ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:
I would make a comment but it took me 8 minutes to find it and I've been practicing with it all along.
Empire &gt; Strategies &gt; Formations &gt;
There is a list of "Types that break formation"
Choose the ones that you want to do so.
&lt; wry grin &gt; no , make that a &lt; poker face &gt;<hr></blockquote>

You are talking about Space Empires IV/Empire Options/Strategies/Formations, aren't you ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ok, maybe my eyes are not opened wide enough, but I see the following strategies:

Optimal Firing Range
Don't Get Hurt
Capture Enemy Ships
Capture Planet
Fighter Attack
Kamikaze
Maximum Weapons Range
Short Weapons Range
Point Blank

That's it ! Ok, I can add a strategy, but I have to assign the movement strategy, but break formation is impossible. In the AI_strategy file I can enter a break formation, but obviously not in the game itself. Or do you use a special Mod for it ?

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Hmm, this doesn't seem to have been answered. Better late than never! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Growltigga:
primary strategy and secondary strategy (what's the difference by the way)
<hr></blockquote>

The primary strategy is the movement strategy that the ships normally use. When the AI determines that the primary strategy is no longer a good idea to use, it will change to the secondary movement strategy. I have no clue as to when or why the AI decides to change to the secondary movement strategy.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

I have fiddled around with the strategy windows now: What if I want to have a different strategy for special targets, like planets. I want the attack ships to toast everything except the planet, this should be taken over with a troop transport (which btw should not arrive too early at the planet). For the planet they should: Damage targets until all weapons are gone (see damage window), and Damage Per cent per planet: as low as possible.

This seems to be not possible yet, except maybe if I create special ships which just target planets, and I put every other attack ship to "don't fire on planets".

EDIT: Quikngruvn 's solution with the ships do not break formation would be the only solution I see, but with the disadvantages of the formation.

[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
.... When the AI determines that the primary strategy is no longer a good idea to use, it will change to the secondary movement strategy. I have no clue as to when or why the AI decides to change to the secondary movement strategy.<hr></blockquote>

That is what I want to know also, since I have seen many AIs which use
1. Don't get Hurt
2. Ram

Nice idea, but does it work the same way as a human would decide when he has no chance not to get hurt any more ?

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

To add a few points about fleet composition and comment on ramming.

I like to have a fleet that can take care of itself. It seems that battles tend to be focus on single ships, so ships are usually either undamaged or destroyed. However, you will get ships left behind that have some damage and which you would prefer to recover. If they have engine damage, they will slow the entire fleet down, unless you leave them behind. I also hate it when you spend five turns getting a fleet into place, then have to fly it back after the first battle due to a lack of supplies.

As such, I always have a repair ship available. I find that this makes my fleets longer Lasting and less likely to get knocked out by scavengers coming to clean up a battered fleet. Some of the smaller hulls, from Light Cruiser up, can carry a reasonable number of repair components and will not be targeted in a fleet of larger ships.

I also tend to build specialist supply ships. I don’t like wasting precious space on solar panels, so I have big supply ships with a lot of room for supplies. These also add range and operating capacity to a fleet. As a side note, I don’t make these the biggest ship hull available, I go for second biggest. That way they fall lower in the targeting priority than the main combat ships.

On both of these, I throw in some point defence and a single weapon which matches the rest of the fleet. This is only to ensure that they are in the heart of the battle and knocking out missiles. I don’t actually expect them to kill anything, but a few extra PDC can make the difference against a missile oriented opponent.

Since these are valuable ships, I don’t ram with them. Another poster was suggesting all non-combat ships should be given ram orders, but I disagree. I can see putting a colony ship on ramming, as it might get jumped in open space and is finished no matter what, but the ships I am describing don’t go anywhere without a fleet.

Now, I have a question. Some folks like huge numbers of Light Cruisers, as they have a defensive bonus due to size. They say that you shouldn’t worry about building bigger ships. Others say that size is everything (no, the size of the ship) and that you should go as big as possible, especially for heavy mounts. I tend to follow the second argument, but would be interested in what other think should go into their fleets.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Ship Size:
I stay 2 hull sizes behind the AI. Experience has shown me 3 Frigates will out fight 2 AI Light Crusiers in Tactical Combat. When not needed in a fleet, they make good blockade ships and scouts.
I’ll do the cost analysis tonight. There may be diminishing returns depending on your play style.

Cargo Ships:
If the AI focuses on the largest hull, then one strategy may be to create cargo ships with as many containers as possible to draw fire. When available add ECM, Shields, Armor, and Point Defense Cannons should be added.
I have not tried this. It may be necessary to build it on a Non Cargo Ship hull if the AI is programmed to go after transports Last. The other advantage of this would be having the transports available as troop ships, fighter transports, and population mover when not used as a decoy. Still, I would not want to be the crew of that ship. &lt; bemused grin &gt;

[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Why couldn't the leader move? Whenever I've seen the leader crippled, the fleet broke formation because of it. Or was this some sort of traffic jam problem?

Breaking formation is often good, although I've seen some good results from some formations, too.

PvK


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I have lost whole fleets of 30 ships because I forgot to make sure the fleet breaks formation when it meets anything.

If the leader cannot move then the fleet does not move.

Your fleet dies.

so make sure you break formation, even if it is because the fleet needs to stop for some coffee.<hr></blockquote>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:
Ship Size:
I stay 2 hull sizes behind the AI. Experience has shown me 3 Frigates will out fight 2 AI Light Crusiers in Tactical Combat. When not needed in a fleet, they make good blockade ships and scouts.
I’ll do the cost analysis tonight. There may be diminishing returns depending on your play style.
<hr></blockquote>

Versus the AI using tactical combat, an experienced player generally has a steep advantage. In unmodded SEIV, usually two LC warships will have an advantage over three FF's. But human vs. AI in tactical combat is generally a larger advantage. Equipment matters too, of course.


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Cargo Ships:
If the AI focuses on the largest hull, then one strategy may be to create cargo ships with as many containers as possible to draw fire. When available add ECM, Shields, Armor, and Point Defense Cannons should be added.
I have not tried this. It may be necessary to build it on a Non Cargo Ship hull if the AI is programmed to go after transports Last. The other advantage of this would be having the transports available as troop ships, fighter transports, and population mover when not used as a decoy. Still, I would not want to be the crew of that ship. &lt; bemused grin &gt;
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]<hr></blockquote>

Different AI's have different targetting priorities, especially with player-modded AI's. Building a defensive ship to soak up attacks can work unless the AI uses a different strategy (and "Largest" vs. "Most Powerful" will make a difference for the cargo ship versus a ship with fancy defenses). If you've got to this level of play, I'd recommend going to PBW with human opponents, though, and then you'll only be able to fool an observant player briefly with dedicated decoy ships. However a mix of ships with some close-range weapons and a lot of defenses set to attack at Optimal range, with ships with less defenses and more long-range firepower set to Maximum range, can be an effective mix.

PvK

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

For unmodded SEIV, I like the Battle Cruisers. There the heaviest you can get and still have speed (six engines).

I usually use LCs. for support ships (fuel and repair). The LCs are unarmed and run for the corner during strategic combat (break formation)and are usually unharmed. The LCs are cost effective, one life support and one crew quarter. Later in the game I may use a BC with Master Computer.

I use different formations for strategic combat.
The V seems to work well for beam ships by allowing them to surround the enemy. The turbine is a good cluster strategy. I usually target: Nearest, Has weapons, Most Damaged or Fastest.
And I usually carry Engine damage and Shield depleters weapons.

I have not tried the Break Formation strategy yet. Does it only make a difference in tactical combat? To keep the game rolling and challenging I just play strategic combat.

The latest 1.49 Version seems to handle capturing planets a lot better. I think it is a coding improvement.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Wardad:

Breaking formation works best in strategic combat. It eliminates the possibility for ships to fly out of firing range just to stay in formation. By breaking formation, all of your ships will get as close as possible (given thier movement strategy), giving you more shots per turn. This increases your chance to win. All else being equal, the fleet that stays in formation has a much greater chance of losing than the fleet that breaks formation.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Ship Size:
I stay 2 hull sizes behind the AI. Experience has shown me 3 Frigates will out fight 2 AI Light Crusiers in Tactical Combat. When not needed in a fleet, they make good blockade ships and scouts.
I’ll do the cost analysis tonight. There may be diminishing returns depending on your play style.

Sounds good.

I personally like to stay even or ahead of computer ai's Since if you get used to being behind them in research and building then your chewed when it comes to pbem games

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

I sould modfy what I said:
I stay behind in Hull size, I always go for a lead in Reasearch.
WarDad is correct as well. When the AI gets to DN I go to Battle Crusier.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

BC's are good for scout fleets and for support ships.

Scout fleet consists of 1 scanner ship/pd ship
2 mine sweepers
1 repair/pd ship
4 pd ships
12 df ships

Built for speed and to hunt unarmed ships or damaged ships, destroy undefended planets and scout

But were talking 4th rate of the line ships

I usually have 4 of these puppies supporting a mid size fleet of 50 ships.

And 2 of the mid size fleets support a large fleet of 100 + ships

So your talking 11 fleets to take control of an area.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Frigate vs Decoy Cargo
Both Ships: Bridge, Life Support, Crew Quarters
Frigate:
SPEED - 6
DUC V - 3

Decoy Cargo (Small Size):
SPEED - 5
DUC V - 2
Cargo Holds - 8

Results:
Stratigic Combat - 70% Win for Frigate
Tatctical (on auto) - 50/50 (seemed to depend on who scored first hit)
Notes:
In all cases the "victor" was severly damaged
Ships (on auto), fought at point blank range)
The both ships set to ram if out of weapons. The setting seemed to even the odds in tactical)
My Thoughts:
I think less powerful weapons would have been to the Decoys advantage.
The Decoy is good if you want a ship to draw fire, have it available for troop or population movement.
Are willing to pay the extra $1000 mineral cost to build and the exttra maintenance per turn.
Dicey at best
Enjoy

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

I use something similiar to TS, I also love the BCs, They're like the old sailing frigates of yesteryear, strong enough to do some damage, but fast enough to outrun anything bigger.

I usually make up raiding fleets made up of cloaked BCs. Make up is usually 5-10. 3 with heavy (by heavy I meant maxed out mounts) type beam weapons, 2 loaded with missles for planet bashing, 2 strictly pds for aa fire, the rest with various combos depending if/what advance trait I take. Use them for raiding behind the lines, glazing weaker planets, picking off single or small enemy fleets, causes your opponet to build or send fleets to either protect their systems or for search and destroy taking them out of the main line. The number of raider fleets depends on strategic situation.

I also use Torpedos (in fact like them better then msls) and always put some on my killer ships

just some ideas mac

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: mac5732 ]

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: mac5732 ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Decoy Transports Revisted
I played close to 100 turns with the Decoy Transports decribed below. They proved to be useless except as troop and population transports.
There are two down sides to the armed transport:
They cost more
There is a chance at 1:00 in the morning you will move the ship up to an undefended planet and click on the planet. That will cause the Transport to fire on the planet and kill off population.
The best troop transport design for my style of play is:
Build at least two per race you are at war with
Build them on a Destroyer hull
Make them as fast as the rest of the fleet
Try to research Cargo to increase the troop capacity.
Two fully loaded "DD Troop" ships should be enough to capture and occupiy the planets of at least 3, and possilbly more solar systems.
The first chance I get, I will build a pair Speed 12 Troop ships to move troops and population from inner colonies to the front lines.
Just my style, I hope Tig is making notes.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

STALL the enemy! It is a tactic that is not talked about often enough. Every newbie should learn it.
In business Time is money, but in war and comedy timing is everthing.

It was still early in the game, I had just over-expanded into the #1 spot. The AIs were all out to get me. Could I hold the choke point to three juicy systems from from my center? Can I tie up that huge battle fleet until help could be built and arrive?
It was a hard fight. Some planets were glassed. But the enemy could never recover from the losses and delays.Help was just next door now.

STALL the enemy.
1. Mines, with five mines I made them take five turns to reach my planet. I layed one per sector.
Why let them go back for fuel and repairs unharrassed? I got a cloaked mine layer in there and shotgunned more mines around.
2. I had transports in nearby systems and refinforced my populations to take a pounding and repell troops.
3.Build WPs as quickly as possible. Also send or build troops to pacify your population. Just try to hold out and make it cost!
3. Use Engine damage weapons, even in WPs. Maybe you can't kill it, but it will take a long time to limp home.
4. Kill or damage the straglers. Pick them off one by one if you can. Stealth helps.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:
Frigate vs Decoy Cargo
...
Results:
Stratigic Combat - 70% Win for Frigate
Tatctical (on auto) - 50/50 (seemed to depend on who scored first hit)
...<hr></blockquote>


Why would there be any difference between strategic and tactical on auto? Should be the same thing, no?

PvK

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

PvK,
I thought it should be the same as well. I do intend to try other combinations as well.
I'll post it here.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:
Decoy Transports Revisted
I played close to 100 turns with the Decoy Transports decribed below. They proved to be useless except as troop and population transports.<hr></blockquote>

The best "decoy transport" IMO, is a light carrier. I usually research fighter before destroyers. The size 800 gives the Heavy Mount modification, which is deadly against early game ships like destroyers or even cruisers. Light carrier with minium required number of fighter bays (14) still has 380 K to fit in weapons and other battle equipment. After launching fighters, carriers are instructed to follow them and fight like regular ships. Fighter bays provide a good "decoy armor" and give a vital extra protection while heavy mounted weapons and fighters pulverize enemy. I seldom build destroyers and light cruisers. Multi-purpose carriers make up the bulk of my fleets. Besides, it reminds me the cool battle scenes from Babylon 5.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

oleg, I owe ya one. If you are ever in Boston, the drinks are on me.
Thanks

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:
oleg, I owe ya one. If you are ever in Boston, the drinks are on me.
Thanks<hr></blockquote>

Oleg, at the rate Gryphin is dishing out the hospitality, let's go to Boston together, we could bankrupt him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Do any of you guys know how I can get a capture ship to ATTACK a target until the shields are down, then capture?

I just had a fleet of capture ships run to a corner (shot at the enemy as they went by), then, when the warships fought, the capture ships jumped back and forth:
"Hey, theres one without shields to capture"
"Oh, wait, they regenerated 5 points, nevermind"

Obviously the secondary strat of "Optimal weapons range" isn't being used when there are no shieldless ships for the primary strat "board ships".

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Try reversing- Optimal Weapons range as primary, board as secondary. I also heard this had been improved in Gold?

Phoenix-D

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Reversing doesn't solve the problem. It is just an bug and already fixed in GOLD. So wait for it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:

I usually have 4 of these puppies supporting a mid size fleet of 50 ships.

And 2 of the mid size fleets support a large fleet of 100 + ships

So your talking 11 fleets to take control of an area.<hr></blockquote>

Must be a ***** to implement when a game only allows 200 or 300 ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

SJ:
If I remember correctly, someone on this forum somewhere (don't you just love how specific my answers are?) had decent luck with ship/planet captures. The way they did it was to set the fleet strategy to the corresponding "Capture" strategy and set the ships to NOT break formation. That way, they all follow the fleet strategy. You also might have to give the capture ships a weapon (not sure on that one though, see below). I can't remember what they set the secondary fleet strategy to, but the general Idea was that every turn (or whatever frequency it occures at), the AI attempts it's primary strategy and tries to capture. If it can't, it reverts to the secondary strategy and proceeds to pound on the target. This cycle repeats until the primary strategy can be achieved (by the capture ships, anyway); at which point they rush in to attempt the capture.

You might have to give the capture ships a weapon (I think shield depleters were the favorite) so that the they will stay close to the combat and be in range to attempt the capture. Any ship without weapons automatically reverts to "Don't get hurt", IIRC. The same problem exists for PDC support ships. PDC isn't considered a weapon, so without a weapon thrown in, they just run for the corners. However, I think that the "don't break formation" overrides this, and the capture ships stay in formation anyway. I can't remember for sure, but this shouldn't be hard to test for yourself, anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Note: If this works for capture ships, it should also work for PDC ships. IIRC, there are two entries for ships in the break formation menu: with weapons and without. So theoretically, you could set the ships with weapons to break formation, but the ones without weapons to stay in formation with the leader. (I think the leader has to stay in formation as well, so you may have to set a PDC or Capture ship as the fleet leader. Or I suppose you could make the repair or supply tender the leader, although I don't see why you would want to.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif )

Anyway, that's just my overpriced $0.02...

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dumbluck:

Any ship without weapons automatically reverts to "Don't get hurt"

PDC isn't considered a weapon, so without a weapon thrown in, they just run for the corners.<hr></blockquote>

Can someone confirm this? If true, I gotta make some changes!!! Actually, I'm beginning to see ways to take advantage of these oddities.
Could it be that shield depleters are not considered weapons as well? That could be why boarding ships run for the corners.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

In the case of both PDC and Shield Depleters, they are BOTH weapons, but if there are no targets they can hurt, and the ships have no weapons that have any targets, then the ships move to corners.

PvK

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

PvK:
Are you sure???? I thought it was a well established fact that PDC were not weapons. For instance, it explains why they aren't affected by the default weapons mounts. Other weapons get damage bonuses with the mounts, while PDC damage stays the same, and isn't even listed in the ship creation screen as being altered by the mount (while all the weapons get the little "L" in their picture for Large mount, etc.).

As to the shield depleters, I don't know. I've never used them.

[ 18 February 2002: Message edited by: dumbluck ]</p>

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Now here's a couple things that have been bothering me.

If a ship is set to say, "short weapons range" with secondary at "point blank" will it fire at all if it is currently at maximum range (with no move points left)?

Similarly if the type priority is set to "ships" as the first priority, will it bypass bases, satelites etc. without firing, to get to a ship?

Oops, one more. Which takes priority, "targeting priority" or "type priority"?

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

quote:
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Originally posted by tesco samoa:

I usually have 4 of these puppies supporting a mid size fleet of 50 ships.
And 2 of the mid size fleets support a large fleet of 100 + ships

So your talking 11 fleets to take control of an area.


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Must be a ***** to implement when a game only allows 200 or 300 ships.


Nah I just downsize everything.... or something.

I have never played a game with the limiting factor 200 or 300 on ships and bases.

I follow the school of if you can support it you should be able to build it.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy
 

Ships will fire all weapons when they are in range.

ON the second question. They will fire at their primary target if they are in range else they will shoot at whats next on the list until there is nothing to shoot at.

On the 3rd question I believe it is Type priority But I could be wrong here.

Dumbluck.

PDC's are not weapons in the 1.49 world

The Large mounts etc... only apply to direct fire weapons.

One thing I love is the fact that armor skipping weapons will destroy armor after there is nothing left on the enemy ship except armor.

I believe that is a bug.