US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

That's what I spotted, while working on pictures (and later):

01 Combat Car M1 - could be also armed with .30 AAMG (seen on most photos)

02 Light Tank M2A4 - production began in May 1940 (by Wikipedia) (now 1/35!). It has icon 114 of M5A1 - better would be 98 of M3.

03 Light Tank M3 - has a picture 380 of M3A3. Correct is eg. 27704, 27706, 27008, 27709, 27705 or 27707 (last two are probably M3A1)

08 M4A3 (75) - has a picture 384 of M4A1, with cast hull. This is late version with 47° welded hull - correct is 27726. Same for unit 206 M4A3 (75)(Late)

09 M4A3 (76) - has a picture of M4A1(76), with cast hull. Correct is 27727 or 27733 or 27737
Same for units 135, 189 M4A3 (76)

---
SP-Flak:

24 M15-A1 MGMC - has picture of M16. M15 were produced from "early 1943" (Halftrack In Action book) (now: 1/42), M15A1 were yet later.
Would need a change in formation 368 - maybe the earliest would be one of units below:

There could be added T28E1 - the same, but with unarmoured turret. First vehicles were completed around 11/42 to take part in invasion on Africa.

25 M16 MGMC - produced from 5/43, available probably from a bit later - maybe Sicily invasion (now 1/44)

212 M13 MGMC - has a picture of M16. Accepted in July 1942 according to a Polish book (In Action says mid-42 - now 1/42). (However, the mentioned book suggests, that a production started in 1/43 - it could be verified)

Would need changes in formations 371, 372 - but is there any reason to keep it a separate class (light SPAAV), other, than SP-flak? (It was a direct predecessor of M16 SP-flak). It could be earliest vehicle in SP-Flak class, at 7/42.

---

29 LVT(A)4 - should be named LVT-4 (A4 was turreted variant)

30 M29 Weasel - a detail, but a photo shows non-swimming variant (common mistake dating from original SP as well). Swimming variant was named M29C.

33 M3-MG Halftrack - icon 164 of M3A1 halftrack should have a gun ring on a right side.

(34 Scout Jeep - Jeeps with AAMG could be given a separate photo...)

35 Jeep - there was no A/T utility vehicle before Bantam BRC and Willys MA built around 1/41 (now: 1/30)

44 75mm Howitzer - picture 411 is a generic gun, reminding Soviet 76mm, while it should be, I think, M1 howitzer (on old M1 or new M3A3 carriage - I'll attach a proposal drawing basing upon a manual, not very good though)

63 Sniper - it has a picture 32089 (used also for Swedish sniper), showing some SMG with a magazine on the right - same for several other units.

---
M3, M6 GMC

78 M3 75mm GMC (class Assault Gun) - photo is T19 105mm halftrack - correct is 27738.

100 M3 75mm GMC (class TD) - photo is T19 105mm halftrack (as above).
They were produced from 9/41 only, and used on Philippines from 12/41 (now: 1/41) (precisely, these early ones were T12 pilot vehicles, M3 were produced from early 1942). Would need changes in some formations, as the earliest unit (M6 should be much later).

Also unit 78 (class Assault Gun) could be made available from 12/41, since they were mostly used in direct support role on Philippines (now: 3/43). It would need changes in some formations, becoming the earliest unit.

211 M6 Fargo - production started only in 4/42 (now 3/41) - it would need change in formations, earliest TD should be 100 M3 GMC.

114 M3 75mm GMC (class Assault Gun) - photo is T19 105mm halftrack - correct is 27738, as above.

---
88 P-39 Airacobra - photo 261 is P-63 Kingcobra (used in Soviet OOB primarily). Better one is 14075 (US markings), though it might be P-63 as well.

90 B-25a Mitchell - better photo for level-bomber variant is 30107 (with a glazed nose)

116, 423 75mm M1916 Bty, FG - photo 23015 is Russian M1902 gun (photo is available eg. here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:75...SModel1916.jpg )

122 WACO - officially Waco CG-4A

130 Boeing P-26 - better photo is 30262

134 Dodge T214 WC53 - it should rather be named WC51 (on a picture) - WC53 was carryall with closed body, built in a small number.

153, 214 75mm Pack How - it had a single-tail bed (unit 145 has 2111)

188 M4A3 (105) - picture is late variant with HVSS suspension. Better seems 27725 (I think it's 105)

207 M40 155mm GMC - has a picture of M12 GMC. Correct old one is 12037.

(208, 209 4.2in Mort Sect - did there exist M5 and M6 4.2in mortars? I could only find M2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_4.2_inch_mortar

213 Xylophone MRL - photo is some Soviet Katyusha - Xylophone had side-firing racks (however I know, that photos might be scarce). I'll attach a proposal (a model)

240 Light Tank M3A1 - has a picture 380 of M3A3 - correct M3A1 is 27705 (probably) or 27707.
Used definitely longer, than 9/42, though I have no data now.

241 Light Tank M3A3 - according to "Stuart In Action", M3A3 was used by the US forces for training only (most went abroad). Besides, production started in 1/43 (now 10/42), and a better icon is 114 (of M5A1 - it had sloped front)

243 LT M3A3 Recon - should be just M3 - M3A3 was used only for training by US forces, and picture is M3. I don't know however, if M3 were used this way.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

....... on the list for investigation later this year .......and while I do understand the temptation to use wiki as a source of information it's just not reliable enough to use for anything other than a starting point for further investigation so PLEASE do not use wiki as a source when suggesting something might be wrong

Thanks



Don

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

A quick search on Google on the 4.2 inch mortar served up this page: http://www.4point2.org/mortar42.htm

As you can see, the range increased several times over WW2 from the section "Increasing the Range in World War II"

So most likely the HE ammo was M1, M2 and so on and the OOB designer has designated the weapons with the ammo's M numbers and not the ordnance's M number in order to differentiate these, rather than using (MR), (LR) or such a scheme - is my guess.

("Mortar, 4.2in M2 with Shell, 4.2 inch HE M2" would not fit the game's name length limits ;)!)

cheers
Andy

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I think that is what has happened but I have noted this down for special attention.

Don

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Part 2

As for 02 Light Tank M2A4 - I had no source by hand, so I used Wikipedia article (which refers to Hunnicut in general). Anyway, "Stuart In Action" also says May 1940.

As for 240 Light Tank M3A1 - still in use at Kasserine Pass (2/43), I guess until the end of Tunesian campaign at least (now ends at 9/42). I don't know, if US Army M3 Stuarts were used in Pacific theatre after this date (Marines' M3 were).

As for 243 LT M3A3 Recon - I've never seen a photo of turretless M3/M3A1 used as a recce vehicle. M3A3 were quite common in this role - but in other allied armies, while US Army never deployed M3A3 to combat units (according to "In Action").

300, 301 M4A3 (Early) - picture is M4A1. More correct are 385, 16506 (Chinese?), 27717 (although this is probably pure M4), 27720, 27721 (both French markings?)

302, 303 M4 (Early) - picture is M4A1. More correct are 385, 16506 (Chinese?), 27717.
I would suggest to call it just "M4", as it was basic model, same for "M4A3" without "early.

304, 305 M4 (Late) - picture is M4A1. I guess it should be M4 with composite hull, but it should have the same cast front armour, as M4A1(76), while it has one more (10).

308 M4A3 (76) - same notes as 09 M4A3 (76)

310 M4A2 (Early) - AFAIK US Army never used M4A2. Anyway, picture is M4A1, and more correct are 385, 16506 (Chinese?), 27720, 27721 (both French markings?)

344, 199, 201 T30 75mm HMC - picture is 105mm T19.

350 P-39 Airacobra - picture is P-63 (same problem, as unit 88)

(368 Bantam - precisely, Bantam BRC)

412 4.5 In Gun Bty - picture is British 4.5in (different gun)

415 8 Inch How Bty - M1 howitzer was standardised only in 1940 (now 1/30). Earlier there was used old British 8in howitzer, with much shorter range.

424 75mm M1917 FG - according to Hogg's Fact Files, used until Philippine campaign (now 12/38) (picture is some M1897-looking gun, while M1917 had small pneumatic tyres in last variants) Same for 409 unit.

That's probably all.

Michal

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Few suggestions of additions:

- M5 High Speed Tractor (from 5/43) - existing M4 HST (#381) was a tractor for heavy artillery, while M5 was most common.

There were also used by the Army:
- Amphibs:
- LVT 1 (combat debute in 11/42),
- LVT 2 (unarmoured, produced from early 1943)
- LVT(A)2 (armoured, produced from unspecified time in 1943, rather later that year)
- LVT(A)2 modified in 1944 with 37 mm automatic aircraft gun on a pintle
- Amtanks:
- LVT(A)1
- LVT(A)4

More comments on LVTs will be in USMC OOB notes.

I'm attaching mentioned pictures of 75mm M1 howitzer on M3 carriage

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

IIRC the US tank formations in Tunesia were temporarily issued vehicles from Lend-Lease stocks in North Africa after the Sidi-bou-Zid/Kasserine debacle in February 1943. If memory serves me right, they were M4A2s destined for the French forces undergoing re-armament. Can't find a source right now, but might be worth checking up on before deleting the vehicle. Even though it wouldn't matter much in game terms :)

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

From memory the LVT series will be hard to model, esp the A versions if I remember.
Bristling with MGs but most need passengers on board to fire & or do not cover the front arc. You could perhaps include them with a short range as additional close defence.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

They are already in USMC OOB, so it's nothing new.
By the way, a visual difference was, that Army LVT had large stars, while the Marines usually have none (by "Amtracs in action" or similar Concord book).

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

There could be also added late-war M4A3(75) and M4A3(76) with sandbags on hull's front and sides, which were quite common sight (from around August 1944?). There is already a drawing pm27729.lbm of such M4A3E8.

Michal

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I've found in "Sherman in action", that there were applique kits of 1in plate for Shermans fronts (with new hulls) introduced late in the war (early 1945 or even earlier).

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Problem with sandbags is that it works something like ERA - i.e. it protects against the first hit, but is blown apart and away, leaving the tank with only the main armour to deal with the next rounds. Dont know if the game engine can handle that type of protection?

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Maybe not exactly. First, the next hit would have to be in the same area. Secondly, I believe, that a thin HEAT stream makes a hole in a sandbag, and then loses its energy on sand inside. Some sand spills through the hole, but sandbags from above should drop a bit lower then, filling a gap.

Michal

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

We are not modeling sandbag armour.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

As you wish. Although I think, that they technically work like skirts on German tanks, adding a bit to HEAT resistance, and they were common on US Shermans from late ETO (example: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6...f7689a78_z.jpg )

Michal

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Search the forums, as we already have discussed sandbag "armour" and why it is not going to be implemented - about 2 years back I think.

Andy

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

The jet is not the problem - it is the huge bang when the HEAT round goes off. While part of the explosive force is directed, the rest is not. The secondary effect is considerable.
German tests vs add-on-armour in WWII showed that a 75mm HEAT round could shatter armour plate and rip the mounts apart, so even that would only be a one-shot-protection.

Rather than a little hole in one bag, you would have the entire side or front of the tank stripped of bags, leaving large areas unprotected.

Try looking up some HEAT detonations on the web to see the effects :)

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y_WAOp8WMA

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

A minor issue:

120 P-51B Mustang - it should be in fact A-36A Apache variant, used during Sicily landing (P-51B came to Europe from 10/43 only). This variant was armed in 6 instead of 4 x .50 MGs.

.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

As I wrote in Polish thread, P-51D Mustangs should have speed =8 (now 7)

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Disregard remarks on aircraft speed :D

340 MHarrington T16 - correct name is Herrington (maybe M-H?). It should have single-tuuret icon (maybe 998 of Pz I, with turret also on the right, and same color). Same for 209 in USMC OOB.

112 M2A2 "Mae West" could have winter icon 4235 and desert 4232.

Michal

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Actually, 636 km/h at 1,500 meters :D

I don't know where you got Speed 8, though, since max. speed at altitude was 437 mph (= 703 km/h) by multiple sources.

(In any case it's a good example how much slower high altitude fighters could be at low altitude)

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Maybe it's worth to give MG-armed jeep an own picture? I'm attaching a few proposals (BTW: it proved difficult to find good wartime photos of a jeep with .50 on a standard pedestal).

It would be:
- US: 34, 367, 377
- USMC: 367, 372, 375 (BTW: maybe USMC oob should also have unarmed utility variant?)
- UK: 233 (with Vickers though)
- France: 94, maybe 290 (BTW: maybe France should also have unarmed utility variant?)
- China: 13, 134, 311 (BTW: maybe China should also have unarmed utility variant? Or maybe Chinese utility variant should have no MG at all?)
- Netherlands: 317
- ANZAC: 113 (with Bren though), 116

Also, I believe it's worth to copy armoured jeep 227 from French OOB to US OOB as a scout vehicle - they were relatively common from 7/44 at least.

Michal

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Michal...... the whole " give MG-armed jeep an own picture" issue HAS ALREADY BEEN MENTIONED, NOTED AND DEALT WITH IN ALL THE OOBS THAT USED MG ARMED JEEPS

and YOU were the one who brought it up so I would REALLY appreciate it if you could

A / NOT repeat yourself

B/ Wait about 6 months AFTER the next release before looking for new things to nitpick about the OOB's

OK ??

As of right now there are 1,081 new photos in SPWW2. I DO NOT need any more help finding ones to replace. I am quite busy enough thank you


Don

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

But this time I brought a photo... OK, you can ignore it.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Request addition of Sikorsky R-5 (aka H-5, S-51, HO2S-1, HO3S-1) to the US OOB.

According to THE AGE OF THE HELICOPTER: VERTICAL FLIGHT; on V-J Day, 65 R-5s had been delivered to the US military, and the remainder of the contract (390 craft) was cancelled.

Possible photo of WWII era R-5 here:

http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/imag...-48/S48-11.jpg

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Request B-24 Liberators be added -- they were used in the ETO for carpet bombing support (COBRA) and in the PTO; they were the prime heavy bomber from 1942ish onwards.

I did some art for them; see attached zip.

Also included as a bonus is PB4Y-2 and B-32 attempts.

Bits and pieces are based off various SPCAMO icons -- if you look closely, you can see B-17/25 etc bobs there and here.

Row 1: This row represents B-24 to B-24G models with no nose turrets in very early war (Tan/Desert) colors for Mediterranean operations and a standard mid-war (olive drab) livery. A bonus blue one represents early model PB4Y-1s.

Row 2: This row represents the B-24G-1 to B-24M models with a nose turret in mid war (Olive Drab) and late war (unpainted) roles; along with a bonus one representing late model PB4Y-1s.

Row 3: This row represents the B-24N model which would have been built en-masse at Willow Run in 1945 if Germany had not surrendered.
Following V-E Day, due to the enormous surplus of B-24s in stockpiles due to much lower than predicted casualty rates in Europe; production of the entire 5,168 aircraft run of B-24Ns was cancelled. Comes in Olive Drab/Unpainted colors.

Bonus blue icon represents the PB4Y-2 Privateer.

Row 4: This is my attempt at depicting the B-32 Dominator, Consolidated's attempt at a VHB, one is with a slightly fat fuselage and one is with a thinner fuselage. Heavy use of SPCAMO B-29 parts, particularly the engines.

One group had already begun receiving B-32s and had carried out combat missions with it; the ultimate goal was to have two groups equipped -- with the slight possibility of maaaaybe one more at a future date (inference based upon production #s I've seen).

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I've already got an Icon ready for the B-24 desert and regular.......


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1445863210

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I've confirmed that the R-5 would have been present in an invasion of Japan through looking at microfilm from the Air Force Historical Research Agency.

In June 1945, CINCAFPAC (aka MacArthur's HQ) had communications with War Department over this.

The AAF Helicopter program (yes, they owned helicopters in WW2) estimated 1945 requirements for Army Forces, Pacific (AFPAC) were four squadrons of helicopters, organized under TO&E 1-1087 (1 dash 1 nought 87).

Plan was for two squadrons to arrive in Pacific September 1945, and two more squadrons by October 1945.

MacArthur's HQ was requesting that the October 1945 shipment be equipped with R-5's and was making sure they were understood that existing R-6As shipped out would be replaced with R-5s as they became available.

The proposed employment by Army Forces Pacific was of separate flights (8 helicopters each) operating in support of ground units, operating independently of parent unit (a helicopter squadron was to have 32 aircraft).

Army Forces Pacific said that they couldn't accurately estimate 1946 requirements, but they expected two additional helicopter squadrons, for a total of six would meet Theater requirements.

Another memo from COMGENAIR (aka AAF HQ) to COMGENFEAF (Far East Air Forces) about helicopter supply for Floating Aircraft Repair Units (they used helicopters to shuttle spare parts to and from them) said that the plan was to replace the R-6 through attrition with the R-5, but they estimated that the flow of R-5s wouldn't start until December 1945.

The R-5 has already been done by SPCAMO -- WinMBT, Green OOB, Unit 528; icon 4903, LBM 56002; it's just a matter of putting it into WW2 and setting the start date to December 1945.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

TO&E 1-1087 - AAF Helicopter Squadron (13 September 1944) was commanded by a Major, with 143 men in the squadron and 16 x Helicopters; 12 x Jeeps, and various trucks for technical duties; so the plan was for 64 helicopters under MacArthur's control.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

.....and the Sikorsky R-5 is in the OOB now with it's own icon

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Don, thanks -- I wasn't actually meaning to bug you about that. It was more of a case of me pulling at strings to run things down -- I just got a copy of TO&E 1-1087 from the US Air Force Historical Research Agency; and decided to do a quick update; as I think this is the only place on the internet where TO&E 1-1087 is mentioned. :shock:

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Is it possible to add a Heavy Tank Company to the US OOB from say May 1945?

By then, ETO had:

172 x on hand on 20 April 1945
229 x on hand on 20 May 1945

https://www.fold3.com/image/287490040

MONTHLY COMBAT VEHICLE LOSSES
(Extracted from Ordnance -Monthly Reports of Materiel Consumed)

(huge chart of 75/76mm Sherman losses not shown)

(at bottom of chart attached via tape was this note)

https://i.imgur.com/y32or0D.png

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

CONGRATULATIONS!... you opened Pandora's box




I did add a Hvy Co, that's easily enough done ( OR UNDONE ) and you could have easily done it yourself.....the question is, even though the numbers may have supported companies were they ever actually organized into companies and that, IIRC is why we haven't had a US Hvy tank co in SPww2 for a quarter century. PERSONALLY, I am not convinced that they were ever used as complete companies during the war..... maybe after May 1945.... maybe so when ( if ) a Hvy co starts depends on further info

Just having enough " on hand" does not mean Coys existed

SO........... prove they were actually organized into Companies and I'll leave the company in otherwise I won't. They MAY have been organized into Coys Post war and if they did in 1946 then there is a justifiable reason to add it up to the end of 1946.

The info I found suggests they were attached in ones and twos ( and why now a single Hvy Tank can be bought.....) to "normal" companies and if so that is a legitimate formation for the game but I need details.

For the past quarter century, we have left that up to the player to substitute a platoon of Mediums for a platoon or section of Hvys and for 25 years nobody has pointed out we are missing Hvy tank coys and for 25 years that worked as the info we had then ( and it seems now as well ) supported

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/ar...late-for-wwii/



NOW.... what this also claims is relevant


IF that is indeed the case then the T26E4 we have starting Dec 1945 needs to start 4/45 ( as a side note it was a German ambush of TF Welborn in late March that lead to the death of General Rose.)

110 active vehicles divided by 5 divisions = 22 which IS enough to make up a company but it APPEARS they were spread out and assigned to units when replacements were needed. I have yet to find any mention of company sized formations during WW2........ they MAY have been after May 1945....... Let us know what you find out





Further http://panzerserra.blogspot.com/2012...-pershing.html


That supports the info that "This machine, which had been in action before, ............ Additional armor protection had been installed"

so TWO sources back up that there was a super Pershing that saw combat in the ETO. Revised Icon now completed and entered

https://i.imgur.com/ZIWzfWy.png

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7D2sx697x...ur%2Bspecs.jpg


https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-14tWG2wb0...ng%2Bspecs.jpg


and finally............

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armo...hp?armor_id=64

says only aout 20 M26's ever saw combat with over 100 held back and it also mentions the Super Pershing saw combat so if nothing else we have an adjustment to the Super Pershings start date and the addition of a single Hvy tank formation when in the past they could only be bought 2 and 4 so show me info that there were indeed Pershing companies and I'll leave the coy I created in

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I intend to set the record straight concerning the PERSHING tank.

The most famous PERSHING tank of the war was #26 that fought in the Battle of Paderborn Railyard in Cologne Germany March 1945.

I know about the crew that served it the German crew they fought in that PANTHER.

The book followed 2 American crews of the 3rd Armored Div, /32nd Regiment from when the PATTONS 3rd Army when they landed at D-DAY +3 weeks. It also followed an attached Infantry Unit and the German PANZER IV/PANTHER G crew until the meeting in Cologne.

From this a friendship w/reunions continued well after it ended.

The book is "SPEARHEAD" by Adam Makos he speaks of the battle the tanks and more importantly the crews firsthand.

His references are "impeachable" but if by God I need to list them, I'll not hesitate to do so. This is what happens when you're feeling "under the weather" dealing with a "myth".

I will refer you to one of our most honored armor paintings of WWII. "SPEARHEAD" as painted by Garreth Hector.

22 FEB 1945 Near Stolberg, Germany live fire test of #26 for the Commanding Officer 3rd Armored Division Gen. Maurice Rose, Staff and Regiments. He wanted to see what its capabilities were and to see how it would fit into his plans on the drive to Cologne.

26 FEB 1945 for 32nd Reg. Easy (With #26) and Able Companies advance on Blatzheim (Near Golszheim "jump off") about 30 miles from Cologne (Bravo and Charlie Companies in reserve.)
The rest of the 32nd Regiment was equipped with STUARTS and SHERMANS.

The plant that built the PERSHING M26E3 tank was the Fisher Grand Blanc Tank Arsenal in Detroit, MI. the first 40 tanks built were split between Ft. Knox, TN. 1-21 with 22-41 split between 3rd and 9th Armored Divisions. The last PERSHING built by Fisher Grand Blanc was in OCT 1945.

The ref below documents their combat service in Europe.

12 PERSHING tanks would be sent to Okinawa in May 1945. But I've not found anything about any combat use, but not saying there wasn't any. EDIT: They arrived too late to see combat as the island was soon secured.

This was a very good tank, but the myth was it was "everywhere" well that was in another "war" and even there wasn't enough there as we had the Soviets to worry about elsewhere, so the SHERMAN kept on serving.
http://www.usautoindustryworldwartwo...grandblanc.htm
(Below "LAST BUILT" picture you'll see #26 fighting in Cologne.)

WASHOUT/WASHOUT/WASHOUT
Another source from Canadian Museum
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/us/m26_pershing.php
("After the war, M26s were grouped into the 1st Infantry Division, stationed in Europe as a reserve, following the events of the summer of 1947. The “Big Red One” counted 123 M26s in three regimental and one divisional tank battalions. In the summer of 1951, with the NATO reinforcement program, three more infantry divisions were stationed in West Germany, and accepted mostly battle-proven M26s retired from Korea.")

This is where they went in WWII and why.

3rd Armored (Cologne on the Rhine.) had 10 total between the 32nd and 33rd Regiments.

9th Armored (Remagen Ladendorf Railway Bridge.) had 11 total between the 14th and 19th Battalions.

Highly recommend the book and his others "A Higher Call" and "Devotion" that inspired the current movie. This is called CYA! ;)

I POSTED THE FOLLOWING FOR THE PAINTING BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY I WOULD DIRECT YOU TO THE "SIGNERS" TAB. PICTURES ARE OF THE CREW ETC.
https://www.valorstudios.com/product...-gareth-hector
(I DO NOT OWN ANY PRODUCTS FROM ABOVE WITH EXCEPTION OF THE BOOKS FROM ELSEWHERE.)

I have other work to try pick up on-again!?! :bug:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

As noted I added a formation that allows a single Pershing to be bought as that really should be how they are bought........one at a time, even the platoon is going too far. That said I have.......for now..... "decided" to put that Hvy tank Coy into the Misc section for " what if". ( subject to changing my mind about it )

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I did some research.

From Zaloga's "Pershing vs Tiger: Germany 1945", Hunnicutt's "Pershing" and Hanger's "The M26 Pershing: America’s Forgotten Tank - Developmental and Combat History":

During the active portion of combat, at least three batches of Pershings arrived in the ETO during active combat:

The first batch (20 tanks) arrived February/March 1945.

Distribution was:

3rd Armored -- Deployed them starting 25 February 1945 for Operation LUMBERJACK; 10 tanks total to 3AD, with 32nd and 33d Armored Regiments getting 5 tanks each. The tanks were distributed as follows:

32nd Armored Regiment -- D, E, G, H and I Companies: 1 Pershing Each
33nd Armored Regiment -- D, E, F, H, and I Companies: 1 Pershing Each

9th Armored -- The 9th got 10 tanks and they were divided amongst the 14th and 19th Tank Battalions at 5 tanks each, with the following distribution:

14th Tk Bn -- Heavy Tank Platoon attached to A Company
19th Tk Bn -- One tank in A Company, two in B Company and two in C Company.

NOTE: In early April, the 14th Tank Battalion's Pershings were traded to the 19th Tank Battalion for Shermans.

The second batch of Pershings (40 tanks) arrived in late March 1945, and 2d Armored Division got 22 while 5th Armored Division got 18.

The third batch (30 tanks) arrived April 1945 and went to the 11th Armored Division.

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EDIT- According to “After-Action Report, Third United States Army, 1 August 1944 - 9 May 1945,” Record Group 156, Entry 894, Box J367, National Archives, p. 27. --90 x M26s were allocated to Third Army, and 40 were allocated to the 11th Armored Division, with the remaining 50 held in Third Army's Main Combat Vehicle Pool.

--

On 6 May 1945, the ETO had 108 Pershings in units, and 202 more in the theater being pushed forward through the system.

======

Past this -- information is hard to come by for the later periods -- April onwards -- because everyone goes to the "Easy to find" history stuff in NARA II RG156 Entry 646A -- stuff that was carefully collected by Ordnance Corps for post-war histories with emphasis on the Zebra Mission, with the heaviest emphasis on Jan/Feb/March 1945.

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EDIT: RG156 Entry 646A Box 776, "Analysis of Conclusions and Recommendations contained in General Barnes’ report of Mission to European Theater of Operations" dated 10 April 1945 says:

"The M4 tank production program has been cut back in order to accelerate the M26 program. Four hundred M26 tanks will be enroute to European Theater of Operations by the end of April."

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

Fold3.COM has a June 1945 USFET Report on redeployment that gives us an inventory of the US ETO stockpile circa Mid-Summer 1945:

https://www.fold3.com/image/287322875/287322894
https://www.fold3.com/image/287322875/287322897

7,636 x M4 Shermans (75/76) in ETO; with 1,172 obligated for occupation forces, and 469 scheduled for redeployment, and 686 already shipped out.

1,468 x M4 Shermans (105) in ETO; with 164 obligated for occupation forces, and 86 scheduled for redeployment and 28 already shipped out.

295 x M26 Pershings in ETO; with zero (0) being scheduled for redeployment.

So it looks to me as soon as "Big Army" knew that Germany was done and dusted; they immediately put a screeching halt to any further shipments of Pershings to ETO and pushed everything towards the Pacific Ports.

I kept digging further and found something related to the 781st Tank Battalion on Fold3 dated 12 Feb 1946 that was the Unit History from 1 Jan 1946 to 19 Feb 1946:

https://www.fold3.com/image/313748320

Apparently on 31 December 1945; 2nd Army made the TO&E of the 781st Tk Bn in CONUS to be:

Company A: Medium Tank Company
Company B: Heavy Tank Company
Company C: Deactivated -- Was a Medium Tank Co; men transferred to other companies, bringing them up to strength.
Company D: Light Tank Company

This didn't last long as on 4 Feb 1946, the Battalion was ordered inactivated, and was accordingly deactivated on 19 February 1946.

PS: I went further into the rabbithole on the 781st and found this:

https://www.fold3.com/image/313748459

Higher headquarters making every attempt to get armor to the infantry across the Neckar River equipped Company "A" [of the 781st] on the 6th of April [1945] with ten(10) DD (floating tanks) and company personnel received intensive training in the use of these tanks for one day prior to use.

"You've got one day of training on these DD tanks! Now do a forced river crossing with them the next day!" :shock:

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I think it's safe to say there were no Hvy tank coys except on paper. I will leave the one I built in Misc as the text for it says......
Start date will be 1/46


So what came from all of this was...

• A single tank formation which is mainly how Pershings were used in 1945 and is certainly more realistic than even a full platoon which is stretching things "a bit"
• A revised start date for the Super Pershing
• A "what if" Hvy Tank coy starting 1/46

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I recall a documentary on the Pershing saying that in Europe they were assigned as a replacement for one of the Shermans in a normal platoon.

This was for two main reasons. They didn't have all that many of them, and they were new ... no one trusted they'd work as advertised.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

I thought I created a scenario with the only known combat of the Pershing but can’t recall off hand.

Re: US OOB 12 corrections/suggestions (v.6)
 

The only other thing I could add would be a platoon of Mediums with a Pershing as a single substitute for one which would allow players to swap out a normal platoon of a company and plug in one that has a " replacement" Pershing. In a scenario, you can use the "change unit" button to change one vehicle but it's not active in a regular game and probably won't be as we don't have the time to figure out all the interesting ways that could be used "inappropriately" in PBEM