#15 Australian OOB Queries
 

Unit 88 M1A1 AIM SA
Unit 26 M1A1 AIM SA
Both have the main gun as #102 120mm KEW-A2
I was under the impression the Australian M1A1 AIM vehicles had the 120 mm M256.
Is there some reference to the Australian M1A1’s having the 120mm KEW-A2?

Unit 89 M1A1 AIM CCS
Where does this sit with in the Australian ORBAT?
It’s not one of the normal vehicles.
Is it trying to represent an American vehicle in an out of country deployment crewed by US/Aust pers?
If it is to represent a US vehicle crewed by US pers it should reflect that in the OOBs.

Unit 207 105mm Howitzer, 105mm Pack How
It has an end date of 12/120 = 12/2020.
These were ditched well before the M2A2 105 How.
So at least this should have an end date of no later than 12/93 assuming it was still available with the Reserve Arty Units. Big assumption.
An end date of 12/70 would be closer which is the same as unit 196 105mm PH Troop.

Units:
14 AS1 Mine Roller( Leopard based)
10 Leopard Dozer
15 Leopard Dozer
All went out the door when the M1A1s came on the scene.
Also there were part of 1 Armoured Regt not Engineers.

At present I don’t recall any M1A1s as dozer, mine plough or mine roller either in The Aust ORBAT.
They were not purchased

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

.......on the list for later investigation

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

A basic reference:
http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Equi...M1-Abrams-tank

Also on double checking with my Army contacts there are no Leo's of any type on the operational list since the M1A1's were introduced. The Leo's dont have the breaching width for the M1A1s nor the Leo bridge unit has the weight capacity or width for the M1A1s.

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

KEW-A2 (General Dynamics)
The 120mm KEW-A2 cartridge is uses a tungsten penetrator, and is proposed as an alternative for depleted uranium based KE projectiles. KEW-A2 uses 8.6kg of JA-2 propellant, accelerating the 7.6kg projectile to a muzzle velocity of 1,700 m/sec. The projectile uses the tungsten rod, steel fin and sabot fabricated from composite materials. ot, fired at a muzzle velocity of 1,740 m/sec generating chamber pressre of 5,800 bar.

120MM M1028 CANISTER ( Aus weapon 101--120mm M1028 )
Canister Cartridge

The 120mm M1028 Canister Cartridge was developed for close-in defense of tanks against massed assaulting infantry attack and to break up infantry concentrations, between a range of 200-500 meters, by discharging large numbers of tungsten balls from the main cannon.


Both weapon designations refer to AMMO type ( we do it that way sometimes......) and the M1A1 AIM CCS simply means a M1A1 has been loaded with Cannister and Heat for anti personal work.

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

Ok fine with that as it clears up th M1A1query.

Just leaves the Leo issues an the 105 Pack How.
The 105 Ph alos has a weapon Owen SMG which went out about mid 60's from memory and replaced by the F1 SMG, totally useless bit of toy cf Owen. That was my experience with it.
The Owen was initialy used in Nam but replaced by the F1 but dropped for the Inf with the M16. Dates are blury with time.
I used all but the transition is varied due to issue dates, both in ops and at home.

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

Don,
I don't know what thread it's in but, it dealt with the ADF armored formations from what, 3/4 years ago I think. Remember I had gotten that info directly from the ADF MOD. I believe the ABRAMS/LEO issue came up at that time. I think I still have those emails and will try to find that thread. As part of the ABRAMS deal the ADF did purchase I believe it was 2 or 3 HERCULES (M1A1 modified chassis.) recovery vehicles. The LEO's are gone which I thought was fixed unless I'm missing something here. Have some info on arty as well as the ADF about a year or two got targeting package upgrades for their M777 (Is the M777 an issue? I'll check later this evening.) pieces.
http://army.gov.au/Our-work/Equipmen...M1-Abrams-Tank
http://army.gov.au/Our-work/Equipmen.../M777-Howitzer

Regards,
Pat

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

OK using government and mainstream local sources mainly. I'll try to post these in time order. Highlights are as follows...
1. ADF initially evaluates M1A2, LEOPARD 2 and CHALLENGER 2 ~2002.
2. Settles on the M1A1 AIM as it became available these tanks will all be RESET in the U.S.
3. U.S. Congress informed of potential foreign sales request in 2004 it gets approved later.
4. ADF starts training crews by early 2006. Darwin will be the point of entry later that year of two shipments in September and December of that year.
5. I can dig deeper however I feel it unnecessary, ADF announces it will retire their LEOPARD 1A3 (In service since 1976.) tanks before the M1A1 AIM becomes operationally ready. Further the ADF states the LEOPARD 1A3 will be retired at the beginning of 2007 and that the M1A1 AIM will become operational by mid-2007. So based on this let's make life easy here, I recommend the following all LEOPARD 1A3 (And any other LEO based unit.) have an END DATE of JAN 2007. As for the M1A1 AIM I recommend a START DATE of JUN 2007. The ABRAMS I believe has that now, as the discussion seems embedded in my head from the past somewhere in this forum, maybe the MBT Thread(?) though I've checked elsewhere.
6. A quick note on the Ammo issue one of the ADF refs below specifically mentions the capibility of the M1A1 AIM to be able to fire the Tungstan round and makes no mention of the D/U round at all.
7. Don my work list or yours? If on mine, like the Pave Low issue I will need to transfer this into it's "home" thread for my tracking. No worries TDR the credit is yours.

Bear with me again on the timeline here...
MARCH 10, 2004 A very good read on the process.
http://defence.gov.au/minister/hillt...currentid=3643
MAY 21, 2004 This order would be filled as requested below.
http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressRelease...alia_04-12.pdf
NOV. 16, 2005
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...1-tanks-01489/
FEB 17, 2006
http://defence.gov.au/minister/Nelso...CurrentId=5413
AUGUST 30, 2006
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/...816945773.html
SEPT. 14, 2007
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1111114419632
SEPT. 16, 2008
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1111117494039
MAY 14, 2010
http://www.defence.gov.au/media/down...514b/index.htm

Hope this is good enough though, I have my normal refs if needed.

Now about those Pack 105's, well first let me enjoy the rest of my day off here while I consider whether this will turn into the still unanswered though compromised French 105 issue. ;)

Regards,
Pat

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

Don,
Saw TDR response in your Thread below, in Post #5 I posted based on the Mr. Martin MOD email that the M1A1 AIM went operational in AUG 2007. I haven't in any of this been able to get to the OOB-sorry, but I believe that's what we have. And again I still can't shake the feeling this was discussed elsewhere.

Regards,
Pat

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

Don, Pat
Just added more detail on the Australian tank squadrons thread.
Possibly will just add confusion.

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

Guns are dealt with as are the engineering leos

Don

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

Thanks for the work.

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries - more
 

Some passing observations.

Artillery:
Since the 1990's Australia and New Zealand have had the 105mm L119A Hamels. I can't as yet pin the start date down, working on that.

This replaced the 105 mm M2A2 in the Australian Army.
The 105mm L5 Pack How was already out of service.
At present I can't find the dates for the out of service for the M2A2 guns.

Also Australia has had the 155mm M198s. These started in service 1983, not sure of the month.

The Australian Army has taken on charge the 155 mm M777 as of mid/late 2010.

These will replace all the L119s and the M198s. All RAA Regts will only have the M777 as the operational gun.

Army Reserve RAA units may have the old L119As but somewhere I read they will fall back on to the 4.5 Mors as their main equipment.


Formations and weapons
In the OOB there are 2 formations:
#206 Rifle Co VN (+)
#207 Rifle Coy (VN)

I presume these represent the Vietnam War period.
If so:
These 2 formations have the formation: #208 Spt Pl (VN)
This formation unfortunately also picks up the 84mm L14A1; Weapon: #29 L14A1 SRAAW
This was not available in theatre due to restrictions on ammunition, (there wasn’t any), so hence not available in that time slot.

The L14A1s were not replaced by a bunch of M72's either. Some units had a US weapon that look like a rocket launcher, just cant remember what it was called. Just got to find the information again.


Weapon queries:
#13 L4 7.62mm LMG
Is this considered Australian service or New Zealand service?

It was not an Australian used weapon. Australia went for the L2A1 Automatic Rifle, (heavy barrel SLR), but this weapon was dropped as useless and moved almost straight to the M60 GPMG.


The Weapon list has the Owen SMG but not the F1 SMG. This is really a small point as in game terms the weapons are almost identical. Though from a personal perspective the Owen was better.

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

The L4 LMG is the BREN re-chambered for 7.62 NATO. 1100 bought from the Uk post war, and barrels made at Lithgow. Also used by NZ (but there is no MBT NZ OOB).

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=39262

Andy

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

Thanks Andy.
I had heard about the rechambered Bren but over my years in the system I never saw one.
Anyway solves that query.

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries
 

M777 155mm already on my work list two years ago (Can't get everything in unfortunately.) Your rough time frame about right and I think by early last year or a little sooner they also got the GPS targeting package as used by the USMC if memory serves. I think some of those other arty dates were incorporated in one of my refs but, it's been awhile.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...owitzer-04829/
This was a key ref, however you'll see it's currently "locked out" for public viewing. I can log in but it wouldn't do any good here. Just keep checking back. However that being said in the upper left note the date it was last posted, beneath that was the latest update concerning the topic at hand. Looks like the date was maybe later. Have others...no worries!
Gotta go have a 0700 date with the range. Good Night!

Regards,
Pat

Re: #15 Australinan OOB Queries - more
 

This has been dealt with by creating a new 90mm RCL unit with just HE that only #208 Spt Pl uses. It gives the VN formations support without involving weapons that they didn't have in theatre