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-   -   A couple of noob questions: (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=50083)

Andrew.Hope December 22nd, 2013 03:23 PM

A couple of noob questions:
 
Been playing WinSPWW2 on and off for a year or so now, got a few questions I couldn't find answered in the guide:
  • How can I make my units spot enemies better? I'm doing a Long Campaign as Russia and I keep losing tanks to close assaults even when I've manually (right clicked) scanned a hex several times for enemy troops. I get that your soldiers can't see everything but it's a bit too much when a ready, unbuttoned tank platoon has had 5 turns sitting still looking in a field and seeing nothing, when it turns out there's 9 enemy riflesquads in the field.
  • Truck-loaded infantry and equipment is always risky and it's to be expected that sometimes lucky artillery strikes will completely wipe out whatever you've loaded on to a truck. How can I protect against this? It seems like every map I lose half a rifle company because 20 hexes from the front line the AI dropped 75mm shells right onto my trucks. Are there enemy scouts/FO teams that I've missed calling in these strikes? What can I do to prevent my trucks getting pounded every map by (seemingly) random artillery?
  • No matter where I place my own on-map artillery, by the 10th turn enemy guns are raining down on them. Conversely, I rarely see more than the odd mortar or howitzer in the enemy rear. How can I find more of them (apart from using scout planes) and how can I stop the enemy spotting my own artillery? I've tried placing them behind hills and in forests but nothing seems to work.
  • Last question for now: I play on the biggest-sized map possible and with a full core of 200 for large battles: because I don't like wasting too many spots in my core on trucks, a lot of my infantry walks into battle. I read in the manual about toggling a company to AI control and setting waypoints for them to follow, and this does work, but not really very well. I've tried setting one way point (so there's a 2km line from my platoon to where I want it to walk to), and I've tried setting a dozen little waypoints (so that the lines follow a road or a route through trees, etc.) but using the AI to walk your troops to the front where you can retake control of them never seems to work right, and I'm sure I'm screwing it up somehow. Does anyone have any tips for this? I'd like to avoid the tedious first 10 turns of a battle moving each individual platoon 3 hexes across the map

Appreciate any help.

scorpio_rocks December 22nd, 2013 05:10 PM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
I'm no expert but a few pointers:

1. Even stopped, unbuttoned tanks don't spot well. There is a reason the russians had tank riders! Spotting is also a function of experience, so your troops will get better at it.

2. The AI, just like you, can and will plot artillery strikes on "likely lines of advance". Try to avoid the obvious route or use armoured transports (this is after all why the APC was invented).

3. I would be surprised if it took as long as 10 turns before static artillery is receiving "presents"! The secret is simple and historical - "Shoot and Scoot". The AI will look for smoke from your artillery fire and pound it - fire a couple of missions then move your guns.

4. Seems the map may be too big... Try playing on a smaller map or using support points for advance/assault missions for transport for the PBI.

Hope that makes some sense

Imp December 22nd, 2013 05:42 PM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
As scorpio says

1) Use combined forces accompany your tanks with infantry they see a lot better.
Be aware Russia has some of the worst experience & morale in the game especially at the start.
Later on you will be better than the Germans as theirs takes a dive.

2) Space your trucks out to minimise number hit by a strike but trucks are always risky they are not a frontline vehicle APCs are taxis though pretty rare for the Ruskies.

3) Either "shoot & scoot" as said or don't fire constantly & produce smoke puffs. Firing constantly also increases our chance of appearing on map due to specialist equipment detecting you. Sound or trajectory give you away.
Lower experience Ruskies takes longer for you to detect them as a rule.

4) As mainly on foot reduce the map width to 80 - 100 hexes to reduce time to contact & need for trucks.
Switching over to AI control is not that effective, the only time I have used it was simulating a night attack so I let them get a little disorganised or lost.
Shrinking the map width should also make the enemy more coherent as it gives less time for them to become spaced out.

zovs66 December 22nd, 2013 09:03 PM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Quote:

How can I make my units spot enemies better?
Purchase scouts, snipers or recon units, and infantry always spot better then tanks.

Quote:

Truck-loaded infantry and equipment is always risky and it's to be expected that sometimes lucky artillery strikes will completely wipe out whatever you've loaded on to a truck. How can I protect against this?
Don't deploy them so close to "choke" points, the AI will target these areas and blast you, you have to out think the AI, usually the turns are long so you can deploy them back a bit further and since they are in a truck they can move up faster.

Quote:

No matter where I place my own on-map artillery, by the 10th turn enemy guns are raining down on them. Conversely, I rarely see more than the odd mortar or howitzer in the enemy rear. How can I find more of them (apart from using scout planes) and how can I stop the enemy spotting my own artillery?
You should be able to spot where his on board artillery is coming from, then target it like a mofo. Use FOO to plot your artillery, and don't, I repeat don't fire you on board artillery early. Detect his and knock it out first. I usually always buy a module of off board artillery (75 or 105) and use this to smash up his before I fire any onboard artillery of mine.

For your last question I would say don't, do a 90x90 map sized area with 2,000 to 3,000 points to learn how to play first.

Just my thoughts and opinions. I have been playing Steel Panthers now for ah about 20 years I guess, switched to SPWW2 (the first dos version 2.0 and up to 5.0 or 7.0) and then switched to SP Camo WW2.

Good luck, and good hunting.

PvtJoker December 23rd, 2013 07:32 AM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew.Hope (Post 823301)
Been playing WinSPWW2 on and off for a year or so now, got a few questions I couldn't find answered in the guide:

How can I make my units spot enemies better?

You have already been given good advice, so I won't repeat that. The spotting ability of your tanks will get better with higher crew experience. Tanks crews with experience less than about 70 (green and average / corporal stripes) are poor spotters; green crews won't spot infantry before the enemy throws a hand grenade down the hatch. In general you should never lead your attacks solely with tanks. Use scouts as tank riders and unload them when you suspect enemy infantry could be nearby.

If for some reason you don't have any infantry nearby, you can try firing an artillery barrage in front of your tanks. In general I wouldn't recommend wasting your artillery like that, but it works as an emergency solution. The artillery will suppress any enemy infantry near the impact points and make it less likely that their close assaults will inflict a lot of losses. "Z-firing", that is blind firing your tank weapons at suspected enemy positions will also work similarly, although widespread use of that tactic is considered borderline cheating (i.e. exploiting the game system) by some. Then again, "reconnaissance by fire" is used in real life as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew.Hope (Post 823301)

Last question for now: I play on the biggest-sized map possible and with a full core of 200 for large battles: because I don't like wasting too many spots in my core on trucks, a lot of my infantry walks into battle. I read in the manual about toggling a company to AI control and setting waypoints for them to follow, and this does work, but not really very well. I've tried setting one way point (so there's a 2km line from my platoon to where I want it to walk to), and I've tried setting a dozen little waypoints (so that the lines follow a road or a route through trees, etc.) but using the AI to walk your troops to the front where you can retake control of them never seems to work right, and I'm sure I'm screwing it up somehow. Does anyone have any tips for this? I'd like to avoid the tedious first 10 turns of a battle moving each individual platoon 3 hexes across the map

The game was originally not designed for such large forces and maps, so in general it works better with smaller maps and smaller number of units. The big maps are there primarily for scenario designers who wanted to recreate larger battles. Like others have said, I wouldn't recommend playing generated campaigns against the AI with anything bigger than 100x100 hex maps. Playing with large maps and forces gets tedious unless you can accept the less-than-perfect way-point system and AI control of units.

Imp December 23rd, 2013 08:20 AM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Actually point raised, suppressing the enemy makes them easier to find as of course does your units being stationary.

Andrew.Hope December 24th, 2013 12:17 AM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
I really appreciate the detailed responses, answered everything I wanted to know brilliantly.

Last question for now: is there anything you can do to raise the moral (specifically morale) of your soldiers? Presumably winning more than losing keeps morale up, but are there any specific things you can do to make your troops happier. I'd rather have a force with bad experience but great morale than vice versa.

Imp December 24th, 2013 02:59 AM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Cant do anything directly apart from kill the enemy & avoid areas of carnage.
Your troops morale gets a boost if they hurt or kill something & others witnessing this also get a slight boost.
Of course if they witness their comrades being slaughtered that has the reverse effect.
So sending infantry through a field of burning friendly tanks is not great from a morale point of view.
Other things that effect it.
Losing your HQ or enough of your force will plummet morale.
Being in a trench is a very good morale boost hence the reason they are hard to clear out as rally well.
Keep your formations together, particularly important in an era when radios are rare or fail to work often, the leader should try to stay out of trouble to let him rally troops.

Not covered but you can adjust the standard settings in preferences.
Switching training off lets you set your own morale & experience.
A lot of time went into determining these however & if you want to be realistic I would suggest not fiddling with things like the searching chance if you want realism.
I tried playing with them & they work well just persevere & you will suddenly realise units capabilities.

Playing as Russia is very hard to start with, poor morale exp & lack of AT capability means you don't want to get caught in a slugfest.
Try & keep units alive so they improve, wont take long till they see better & most likely gain an extra shot.
Till then if your struggling buy the odd Guards Infantry if you can., have them follow just behind the regulars that way they avoid being fired on & hopefully see who fired due to their experience boost.

SaS TrooP December 24th, 2013 04:21 PM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Excuse me, but according to my knowledge there is no way to adjust morale manually?

Out of the other news: crew loosing a tank receives a huge negative hit to morale (around 50). SUrprisingly, units taking heavy losses but surviving the fight and killing the enemies seems to have noticable morale increase.

zovs66 December 24th, 2013 04:23 PM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Playing as Russians or early war Americans will have low morale level units. Playing with the Germans, SS or British increase morale units, as units gain more experience they can withstand more punishment, but getting plastered by a bunch of artillery will never make them happy, or seeing a bunch of friendly units getting whacked either.

Imp December 25th, 2013 06:39 PM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaS TrooP (Post 823333)
Excuse me, but according to my knowledge there is no way to adjust morale manually?

Out of the other news: crew loosing a tank receives a huge negative hit to morale (around 50). SUrprisingly, units taking heavy losses but surviving the fight and killing the enemies seems to have noticable morale increase.

Experience & morale are tied if adjust in preferences.
As you design scenarios you could adjust it separately if you want I think using the D key (modify unit)
or
Adjust a formations settings in OOB editor.
Scouts or Paras are a typical example with both experience & morale modified.
You could just copy say a rifle company & give it a morale boost only to represent fanatics if you desired.

Quote:

units taking heavy losses but surviving the fight and killing the enemies seems to have noticable morale increase
Not sure that's surprising for a while probably be elated that you survived, heck might even think you are invincible & go all heroic

Andrew.Hope January 12th, 2014 09:53 PM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Again I appreciate the responses. A final question for now: anyone have any tips of finding the enemy's HQ unit, specifically against the AI (I don't play PBEM). I typically detach a recce unit solely for this purpose (and dedicate a substantial part of my core forces for the protection of my own HQ unit), however even with the most patient right-clicking to look around I only ever find the enemy's HQ unit if I happen to drive into the same hex that it's in and it flees in terror.

Are there any tips against the AI specifically for location HQ units? As a man who is constantly outfoxed by the computer player I am hoping there are a few tips I can use to level the playing field, rather than wasting artillery guessing where the enemy commander might be. I play on 200x160 maps so this is an even tougher find than it might've been.

jivemi January 13th, 2014 12:23 AM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
Dunno about that; I rarely look specifically for the AI HQ. Rather concentrate on eliminating other units, especially high-value ones. But your idea is intriguing and may deserve merit.

scorpio_rocks January 13th, 2014 02:20 AM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
The effort and resources put into tracking down 1 unit which is designed to be hard to find are much better focused on destroying / routing "standard" units.

Killing the HQ won't win you the game on its own - killing your oponent's fighting force will!

DRG January 13th, 2014 04:08 AM

Re: A couple of noob questions:
 
If you were playing a PBEM campaign then finding your opponents HQ would be beneficial but in a regular generated battle unless you manage to find it very early on in a very long game you are not going to do much but add 50 points to your score

Don


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