Laser Guided ATGM's
 

Is it possible to add a weapon class of laser guided ATGM?

This class would have the properties of laser guided ATGM.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

It seems the game already models Javelins and other laser/IR guided ATGMS pretty well. Is there a specific weapon you are thinking of?

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

As Airborne said what is it you're trying to add to the game that would require some different way of handling ATGM accuracy then the way it's handled now?

50 - 3M6 Shmel
60 - 9M14 Malutka
80 - 9M111 Fagot
90 - 9M131 Metis-M
90 - 9M117 Kastet
95 - 9A4172 Vikhr-1
100 - 9M123 Krzantema

I'm fairly certain 255 is the maximum accuracy the game can handle, but NOTHING currently existing is that accurate.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

The type of Guidance system of any Anti-Tank Guided Missile IS modelled within the game!
Sometimes the specifics can become irrelevant within the game - laser, wire, radio, IR guided can all be stopped by VIRSS, for example.

If you want to model NONE guided missiles use weapon class 23 and 24. Class 25 represents a further type of guidance system.

Are 6 (or 7) [13,20,21,22,23,24,(17)] out of a possible 26 weapon classes representing AT(G)Ms not enough for you?

What behaviour are you wanting to see that isn't currently modelled?

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

There may be properties of laser-guided ATGM that are not the same for other weapons, i.e. the TOW missile.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

TOW is NOT laser guided... (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided)!?!

What properties do you think aren't modelled for laser guided ATGM (ie spike) that are for wire guided (eg TOW)??

Whilst countermeasures are (slightly) different for 1st, 2nd and 3rd generations of ATGM they can be assumed to be covered by the current game modelling. Much more important (in game terms at least) is how they react on reaching the target - Top attack, multi-charge, etc. which IS covered by the varying weapon classes (6 or 7) for AT missiles.

Please don't answer with vague "...there may be properties...", please give examples of properties/behaviour that you believe isn't currently modelled in the game and could be modelled to add to realism and playability.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

The OP should at least play the game before posting any "constructive criticisms." This is obvious trolling.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

I may not know all the properties of laser-guided ATGM, and others, like the TOW missile. The game creators know how to adjust the game code, if they wish, I suppose.

Is there any real reason to adjust the game code regarding missile guidance methods? Laser-guided ATGM may have properties of their own, just as TOW may, for example.

I've been playing the game since Steel Panthers, I suppose you know. Generally, I play the game daily.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

If you truely have being playing the game "generally daily" for approx 20 years then I am sure the answers to your OP and further questions above would have become obvious...

The developers have worked hard and constantly over 2 decades to bring us a game as realistic and well crafted as possible (within the constraints of the original game format), "adjustments" to game code are made after careful analysis and research - not on a whim!

Yes different types of munitions and weapons systems DO have different properties and behaiviors this is why there are different weapon classes.

It makes little to no sense to me to ask vague, "should there be..." questions without some knowledge. The answer to this, and many of your other posts, is yes THIS IS ALREADY MODELLED IN THE GAME!

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

Sorry to pile on dude, but if you've been "play[ing] the game daily" your barrage of nitpicking reminds me of the Russian proverb (IIRC):

"He made the rounds of all the smithies but returned home unshod."

Cheers and have a nice day ;).

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

If that's so its a shame you didn't just continue playing then you might not have discovered the website.
We have 2 of the most dedicated game designers I have ever known & they are finally trying to take a much needed break.
Most people seem to respect this the website is quite compared to normal but you keep coming up with totally pointless posts.

Sorry in my view this is just trolling & nobody should answer then you might actually stop wasting everyone's time.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

I'd give him a benefit of doubt, especially as English is not his first language and some aspects of the game can be confusing. I myself have probably made Don pull half of his hair off with my suggestions, questions and requests. In the process I learned a lot on how things are modeled within the game and what the limits of the system are.

The best way to handle things is to be polite, not get provoked and answer the question properly. Trolls get bored of that and newbies get educated by those well thought answers.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

Moderators have the ability on this forum to trace ISP address and the poster in question is
General IP Information

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So this isn't a language issue. Co-incidentally the same place "Chuckforth" was from for those who remember him


Don</FORM>

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

OK dmnt, but in my mind it goes back to what I respectfully suggested to another forum member. The point is, after all, to play Steel Panthers. Getting bogged down with minutiae like special weapons slots, "frozen" turrets and such that hardly (if at all) affect gameplay doesn't have any practical value.

While I won't presume to speak for them, it seems to me that Don and Andy don't pretend that SP is a perfectly accurate representation of combat. (It's doubtful that anything besides the real thing ever will.) What they've given us is a remarkably lifelike facsimile thereof, which we may use for pleasure, analysis, competition, or whatever. While suggestions have their place, it strikes me as impertinent--if not downright rude--to badger the designers incessantly about this or that minor feature that strikes one's fancy.

Agreed, best be polite. On the other hand, how to tell the forum equivalent of a barfly that most of us aren't terribly interested in his picayune concerns?

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

My rather limited understanding on the topic is that wire-guided missiles there is a chance of the guidance system failing, due to the wire breaking for some reason or due to short circuit caused by the wire coming in contact with water. However, I do not have any particular idea as to how likely such occurrences are in practice, nor to whether they could be really modelled in game.

Also, the range of the wire-guided missiles is limited by the amount of wire they carry - but that is already represented by the range attribute in the game.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

We don't model electricity pylons (a major factor if using e.g. TOW), but then again I cannot think of any wargames rules set (tabletop or computer or hex and paper) that did. Nor did any of those rules sets bother with large bodies of water short-circuiting the trailing wires. (But then you would have to model the missiles that used insulated wires, such as SS-11 and AS-12 which were happily fired by naval vessels and helos at ship targets).

The rules don't bother to differentiate bridge load classes either, but few wargames rules ever go into that sort of minutiae either. However it is a large part of the planning in military exercises. But us civies simply don't want to be bothered with it, so a Maus can trundle over a wooden bridge at full speed as often as it likes.

Trivia gets in the way of game-play, and brings little added value to the party.

The game has no pre-game planning of orders etc. - a vital part of the military process. SP3 had a rudimentary objective system though. But us civvie wargamers just don't want that sort of restriction, and want to be able to move our troops about at our whim 'Hollywood style' - very few folks bothered with the command and control bit of SP3 as it was not 'fun' and it 'gets in the way'. (Folks who want to try something with more realistic pre-game planning, artillery call-for fires, etc probably should look at the Prosim games http://www.prosimco.com/ - available here on the Shrapnel site).

It is a turn-based easy-access civilian wargame and not a real-time military trainer type simulation that presupposes a year or so in Sandhurst prior to play or a dedicated weapons training TOW simulator for the actual operator to practice with. Some folk cannot seem to get over this, for some reason.

Andy

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

The thread's off-topic already. Guidance mechanisms on ATGM can have properties, not just affecting accuracy. I say again, I don't know all the specifics of the programming, regarding the game engine, or all the properties of guidance methods of different types of ATGM.

Re: Laser Guided ATGM's
 

Might I suggest you have a specific change, and a specific reason for asking for it in mind rather then blanket "Is it possible..." questions? Chances are pretty good the item is already modeled (as best it can be) in the game.

An example (that's already been addressed and nixed for code limitation reasons) was a suggestion to eliminate separate HE and AP ammo for gatling guns and just give them an armor penetration value since there's no such thing as a dual-feed gatling gun.

A specific change for a specific reason.