Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Date: October 27, 1962
Battle Location: Near Skibotn, Norway
Battle Type: Soviet Union assault vs Norway/USMC defend
Scenario description: Fictional Scenario

In an attempt to gain something to negotiate away in return for missiles in Cuba the Soviets have ordered the mobilization of the Warsaw Pact!
NATO and Pact forces face off in central Europe, but neither side really wants to start WW III so everyone stays on high alert but maintains their positions.

Norway has mobilized, but not deployed their regular army, not wanting to provoke the Soviets. However the Homeguard and some recon elements are in defensive positions, "just in case".
A USMC Battalion Landing Team (BLT) has been landed and deployed in the Skibotn area. Washington feels certain the the Soviets won't try anything if they know they have to face American troops.

However, in Norway the Soviets feel limited hostilities confined to northern Norway will gain them a trading card they can use for being allowed to place their missiles in Cuba. After all, you can always blame a rogue commander and have him shot before things get totally out of hand!

On Oct. 26 the Soviets make a surprise announcement; they will demobilize their forces in central Europe, and invite NATO to send observers.

Then at dawn Oct. 27 northern Norway erupts!

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

BLT? - which of the guys called themselves the bacon, the lettuce and the tomato.... :D:);)

But the main point - does this use the issued standard USMC OOB - or your latest mods?. If the latter then you'll have to add that zip to the thread.

Andy

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

It can use either the default set or the latest mods.
Most of the units in the scenario have been tweaked via the editor so it's just a matter of the units being the same type in the OOB, which they are regardless of which OOB you use.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

I know this scenario is big/complected/long enough it'll take a few days for anyone to finish it. But feedback, ESPECIALLY problems, is appreciated.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Suhiir always posts a scenario worth the time and effort. It is big and complicated. This one will take more study to formulate a plan, counter-attack, defend in place, withdraw and ambush, whew!

I want to understand what Suhiir intended in her layout of the defense. What she understood as the Russian COA.

Gotta run, RTB!

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Actually the "intent" of the defense is pretty simple. You have essentially two infantry battalions, one Norwegian Homeguard the other USMC, trying to stop a mechanized assault. Dig in, use any mobile anti-armor assets when/where needed.
Just sitting in your foxholes/trenches letting the Russian steamroller hit you when and where it likes is not an effective strategy. You need to figure out how to use your mobile anti-armor, forward of the MLR recon assets, and what little (compared to the Russians) mortars/artillery you have to best effect to disrupt and destroy as much of the Russian assaults as possible. Given the length and size of the scenario the Russians have time and room for more then a simple "banzai charge" ... so where are they going to hit you with what?
FUN!

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

The BIG challenge was trying to figure out how to get the AI controlled Russians to act like they have a brain.
That required a LOT of testing on formation placement/composition/timing as reinforcements, using the editor to reduce the speed of some vehicles so they'd assault with the infantry, and placing victory objectives such that the AI knew where to go without their location telling a player exactly where the AI was going to go.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

I've made my way through most of the scenario and it's a lot of fun. I pushed my armor and AT units forward of the MLR and set up ambushes supported by the reserve infantry company to good effect. I defninitely appreciate the work you've put in to making the AI attack not just a headlong rush for victory points. My one small criticism is the deployment of the MLR. A linear deployment like that seems a little unrealistic in modern warfare, especially in a theater like Norway where the amount of troops will never be enough to cover all the ground. Really fun scenario all around, I hope more are coming!

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Glad to hear you found it interesting. Have you gotten to the main infantry assault yet?

Yeah I initially tried a non-linear defense but given line-of-sight issues there was no way to do so without creating unacceptable gaps in the fields of fire.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Yeah, that is what I want to understand, what is the Russian likely course of action (COA), and that means, what was Suhiir thinking when she put the assault plan together.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Well I can't definitively speak for the Russians because I've never been in the Soviet/Russian Army. But the general intent was:
1) Screen of light/recon units slightly ahead of the main body on either side of the roads scouting for ambushes.
2) Main body with mine clearing units in the lead traveling down roads (keep in mind this is Norway in October... off-road movement is VERY difficult).
3) On contact with the enemy a company size Mech Infantry formation attacks to either a) clear small ambushes b) locate enemy defensive positions.
4) If #3 is unsuccessful a tank company assaults hoping to smash thru any resistance (keep in mind Norwegian anti-armor assets rather limited and T-62s are damn nice tanks in their day).
5) If #4 is unsuccessful a dismounted infantry assault supported by armor assaults.

Soviet tactics emphasize Blitzkrieg type warfare, even tho the terrain in Norway isn't really suited to it, that's what their trained for so that's what they try to do.

If anyone can show me documentation that that this isn't pretty much how the Soviets would attempt an invasion of Norway in 1962 (remember helicopter warfare is in it's infancy so is not an option, and Airborne forces will be saved/used for major objectives not "Blocking Position" battles in the middle of nowhere) I'll be more then happy to revise the scenario.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

I haven't played it to the assault on the MLR, but the Russian infantry with artillery support did overrun one of the infantry platoons I'd sent forward in their AMTRACs to support the AT assets.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Happen to recall what game turn you are up to?

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Turn 26.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Oh ... you're not even half way :D
I assure you it gets MUCH more interesting.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Yes indeed, it gets a whole lot more interesting. I wonder, would not the river, with the several "Ford" markings on the map, serve as a natural line of battle acting as a separator between forces?

I fought the scenario destroying the bridges, bringing up my 90mm RC rifles, and committing my mounted company to fighting positions to cover the many river fording areas. And, it was working until those nasty Ruskies managed to end up unscathed West of the river. My forward units, East of the river were only tasked to watch, but take out mine clearing units if the opportunity presented itself (filtered armor and ranged out to 5 hexes). The other units high tailed back to the West side (not thinking Dr. Dre here) of the river to setup FPs covering river fording hexes.

Is it possible, for a large force of vehicles and men to traverse a swamp or motor down a paved road without detection, I think not, especially with those little Huskies in the sky doing a marvelous job of spotting.

I like playing Suhiir scenarios. They are large, complicated and require a lot of management. There's no "but" coming, I liked the scenario up to the point where the reinforcement turn placed large formations West of the river and behind and intermixed with my forces.

I can feel it credible if the reinforcement turn placed them, the Russians as follow up troops advancing from East of the river, not West of blown bridges.

That's my two bits now where is the coffee!

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

I honestly didn't think anyone could hold the northern bridge long enough for those reinforcements west of the stream to appear intermixed with player units.

WELL DONE!

The problem is the AI REALLY can't manage to cross the stream with vehicles (and barely manages infantry) so in my tests I determined about how long I thought a player could hold and added 4 turns before the reinforcements arrived.

The main reason the MLR isn't on the stream is the very limited fields of fire AND that's where the Soviets would expect the MLR to be so by placing it further west they have better fields of fire and are not where the Soviet artillery/rocket concentrations are likely to impact.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Hmm, when I looked at the map, I thought the bridges were critical to the Russians, and that by destroying them, I could use the terrain to help me kill them as they slumbered to cross at the river fording areas. Once, they managed to break through my first lines, and they would, the static defense line of well dug in troops in fighting positions would finish them off.

So, if I were a Russian commander, actually Soviet in 1962, I would want a Spetsnaz force to hold the bridges until I could bring up my armor and mechanized troops. And, I would want river crossing bridges as well. I guess in a PBEM game, this would be my most pressing task: to secure and cross the several river bridges with sufficient force to assault the dug-in Americans or else just go home, have a vodka and await my deportation to some Siberian gulag.

Thanks Suhiir.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

The thing is this is NOT a "river" just one of the many, many streams that exist everywhere in Norway. I totally agree about Spetsnaz (and probably airborne troops) at a major river crossing, and so did the Norwegian/Marine commanders ... why the blocking position is here in the middle of nowhere.

Actually those bridges are not that large/important and as you point out many fords exist. I have zero issues with the Soviets knowing where they are, no doubt Soviet "tourists" have been fishing these streams for years and know them as well as the locals.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Oh ... by the way ...
Committing your mobile forces early to block the bridges may just hurt you later as it's entirely possible the Soviets may try to outflank your position and send some forces around that might appear behind your MLR.
Just saying :)

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Ok, finished this fun scenario up finally. Strong marginal victory:

14861 - 3990

Men: 424 - 2240
Arty: 2 - 18
Soft vehicles: 5 - 2
APC: 16 - 53
AFV: 14 - 86
Helo/air transport: 5 - 2
Aircraft: 1 - 1

I had the same experience as shahadi on the west side of the stream. One of my mobile platoons was executing what I thought was a brilliant fighting withdrawal in the north when they suddenly found themselves surrounded by a human wave of Russkis and were nearly wiped out. One squad set up a perimeter around their vehicle and held out to the end of the scenario, killing many vehicles and men. Even so, I had sufficient mobile reserves pass back through the MLR to deal with the later surprises in the rear quite handily. And the appearing Russians worked both ways, since one of my .50 cal jeeps survived the early fights of the recon forces and was hiding in the woods when the three soviet ATGM carriers appeared around it. It quickly dispatched all three. I completely understand why you designed the russian deployments as you did having struggled to get the AI to react the way I want and in this case you chose the best solution. Anyway, when the Russians made it to the MLR there were not many vehicleseft and those that we're didn't make a difference (the rifle grenades of the USMC are surprisingly effective in assaulting vehicles, even t62s. The Russian infantry was largely mowed down at close range. No where did they penetrate the line. Overall,its a fun scenario set during a time that doesn't have many hypothetical scenarios at all. :up:

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

I can't delay the arrival of the Soviet forces west of the stream much more (turns 45 and 48 ... max allowed is 50) so maybe I need to have them arrive as far east as possible while still being west of the stream. I really want to avoid having reinforcements appear from nowhere around player occupied positions (no Stalingrad sewers to justify it).

Strong Marginal victory is about what I was shooting for. As with many scenarios it's not so much a matter of if you're going to win or lose but how interesting it is to play.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Or another option would be to make the Norwegian/USMC mobile reserve forces reinforcements so they can't reach those locations before the Soviets have them fairly well in their grasp.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Having the Russians arrive a little further east makes sense to me. I had lost all the crossing points by the time they appeared so having them show up closer to the stream could simulate the Russians breaching the stream and then pouring reinforcement across. I wouldn't make the USMC reserve a reinforcement though. Deciding how to employ them in the early fight and then trying to get them back to the MLR In tact for the main fight was the most exciting part of the scenario for me.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

Yeah why I wanted them available at the start, when and where to deploy them is pretty important.

Re: Cuban Crisis - Norway
 

New version of the scenario.
Hopefully this time the Soviet hordes won't materialize next to your advance units and the main assault will have a few more teeth.