NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

NVA Maneuvers


This was never meant to be a scenario.

Idea of this battle was born when I saw extensive archive footage of East German Military (NVA) maneuvers, cooperating with Warsaw Pact troops in year 1965. It is a very specific period of time, often ommited in history of military. Eyes of most people are directed towards Ia Drang and rapidly raising PAVN combat abilities.
I asked a friend of mine to prepare me this battle. It is setup on a map that was not made either by me or him. This map was invented for a tournament of some sort. I deployed entire regiment the way I would prefer to have it deployed. His objectives was to deploy the Dutch mechanized battalion, supported with tank company and some recon elements, enough to make defences reliable. NVA troops are supported with divisional guns (152mm battalion) and some air force, mainly MiG-17 aircraft.
This would be a typical battle should Warsaw Pact move towards West Germany. At first I expected NVA troops to overrun the Dutch quickly. To my great surprise, long and extremely bloody combat ensued with both units anihilating each other.

Have fun. This scenario is a good basis to try different WP nations and deployments. Can be played on any side, though invented for East Germany. Scenario is most likely capable of PBEM play.

Source: YouTube channel "Filmarchiv der Nationale Volksarmee", recently closed


Guys, play it and let me know how it was. This could be a good base for historical discussion. At the end, I managed to destroy the Dutch, but literally like 10% of my entire regiment was still combat capable. What means it is no victory at all.

I was suppressing enemy with artillery and advancing in three columns, heads of which were deployed into line in the process. Armour supports the middle. Aircraft are picking HVTs.
I resigned from deploying smoke screens and relayed on firepower rule. I am not sure if it ended well. Centurion tanks are great compared to T-55A of the NVA.

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

If anyone plays this some feedback would be welcome.It sounds like and excellent addition to the next patch

Don

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

Heh NVA=North Vietnam Army came into my mind as I looked at title:P...

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

thats aways my first thought when I see "NVA" as well even though I know it applies to East Germany as well :)

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

One thing I noticed was when playing from the Dutch side, turn one starts with the NVA turn and there is considerable contact on that first turn. The Dutch player has no chance to set up his OP fire filters and in this case I would have prefered my unit held their fire longer than they do
Don

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

This could be solved by setting NVA reaction turn to turn 2 maybe? Not sure how it applies with PBEM. Any way to "switch" player numbers?

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

It's not a big deal , just saying it would have been nice to setup opfire BEFORE contact was made. The only way to adjust this would be set up the East Germans further back so contact is not made until turn two and add a turn to the length of the scenario but that may unbalance things.

In any event it's never good to adjust scenarios too quickly, the change I suggested may change the way it's played too much.....what I noticed was the Centurians and ATGM teams were firing too early. I would have let the NVA get closer before tearing into them.....more kill shots and less wasted missiles and ammo

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

Maybe I am unlucky, but those Centurions and SS-10s raped me pretty badly. Luckily, if you keep the correct speed ATGMs are not that much of a problem. Centurions were pretty accurate as for me. Plus NVA can only eliminate those effectively with HEAT rounds. So they are Germans who actually seems to have a problem.

The thing with deployment is that when I was making a playthough, I spent first 5-6 turns purely on artillery bombardment. This scenario theoretically includes the necessary break.

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

This was a fun scenario but it took every trick I knew (and lots of smoke) to pull off a draw as the NVA. I took all the objectives albeit with heavy losses (see attached screen shot)

I am curious what the point ratio is. The Dutch have more tanks, the same amount of arty and airpower, and only slightly less infantry.

Assaulting over open ground at 1:1 odds rarely ends well even when playing against the AI.

To even things up I would remove the SS-11 units or add more tanks and maybe some mortars (for smoke) to the NVA.

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

Played from the Dutch side and the NVA only lasted 11 turns before throwing in the towel. See attached screen shot.

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

SPOILER ALERT

Technically, Dutch have 17 tanks to your 30 (and 12 only are engaged in actual defence, one platoon covers the flank). So this is circa 2,5:1 for the NVA. Of course quality is on the Dutch side.

Infantry is 9 companies to 4 companies, what goes better for the NVA if we include combat engineers company. Anti-tank infantry weapons are better on NVA side. Dutch quickly invested into ATGMs, those platoons were integral part of every single company and they have it to this day (16 heavy ATGMs and about 20 lighter ones as of 2013). Dutch utilise battalions made of 4 combat companies, sort of odd thing as for NATO standards)

There is more artillery for the NVA. Dutch receive only a battalion of guns, while NVA has its integral medium battalion and heavy battalion attached from divisional support. As for air force: I think NVA has more bombers capable of greater destruction plus NVA holds better AA (if we can call it better in that period).
Given the Warsaw Pact "triangular rule", triangulation of battalion (Dutch side) is a regiment. What could have probably led to assaults just like the one you played on WP planning tables.

This scenario is a proof of concept. Concept if typical Motschutzen Regiment could actually MAKE IT through a typical defensive position. For this reason I do not think balancing it is a good idea.


If you like though, I could borrow one more map (if I will be able to find it) and make eg. Polish motorized/armoured regiment assaulting Belgian battalion. Preferably the same year, 1965. But if you want any other tests like that, let me know.

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

I was counting the SS-11s as tanks since they did a lot of the damage.

As for the NVA air units, I would have preferred more rocket firing Migs to bombers. The Dutch F104s with snebs did the most damage to the NVA armor.

As a proof of concept it works. The NVA took their objectives with relatively even losses. Since the Warsaw Pact always had numerical superiority over NATO this could be counted as a win even if it was a draw in game terns.

Without laying smoke first (like the AI did not) a straight up charge is suicidal.

Still makes for a very challenging scenario. Please keep them coming.

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

[quote=SaS TrooP;831557]If you like though, I could borrow one more map (if I will be able to find it) and make eg. Polish motorized/armoured regiment assaulting Belgian battalion. Preferably the same year, 1965./QUOTE]


Build the scenario! :up:

If you can't find the map I will make a map for you...
All we ever want is more!

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

I pretty much have it, but it is untested. I am recently more into SPWW2 and got couple of scenarios to make there.

But if you are up to it, I can post it.

Re: NVA Maneuvers 9/1965
 

I got a draw (more of a pyrrhic victory though, since I had more than 7000 points and the Dutch had 4000), but it was one of the few times that the AI had less casualties than me (446 men and 40 AFV vs. 313 men and 26 AFV for the AI). It is a difficult scenario, and the fact that the AI does not counterattack made it a bit harder. I could manage a bit better score, had I not follishly positioned my tanks on elevated positions early on, trying to duel with Centurions and ATGMs from 1500+ meters. Oh and I think my artillery division probably needs new tubes, as they were firing non stop in this scenario... :)