French Para Obat error?
 

Here I thought I was banned from posting, guess I was in the wrong forum trying to post.

So I have several scenarios that are part of MBT, all created back in V3 and a play test of them shows that they have errors in them now. The biggest is that the French para company, in 82, is breaking down platoons into HQ HQ sqd sqd, an example can be seen here, post 2:

http://www.theblitz.org/message_boar....php?tid=68651

So C platoon looks normal when purchased, but once on the map for deploy turns into C platoon HQ, D platoon HQ, D sqd, D sqd.

I searched the forums before posting this, don't see it reported anywhere. I guess until the obat is fixed I can't fix the scenarios.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Interesting.......I think the platoon is the culprit but I will look into this but from what I can see at first glance those two formations are unchanged since winV1

Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I did a little playing:

it seems this is due to original OoB designer trying to cover a large period of time with 1 formation. The platoon formation is effectivley:
HQ section
Pre 1974 sec
Pre 1974 sec
Pre 1974 sec
post '74 sec
post '74 sec
post '74 sec
sniper
AT
ATGM

so the "gap" of 3 missing (out of timescale) units seems to create a further platoon.

I was able to prevent the problem by creating seperate pre-74 and post 74 platoon formations (plenty of room in french OoB :) )

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

That's my first impression as well but checking back it does not look like that platoon has changed since about 2002, for sure 2005 but I've just started looking

Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

and you forget the AI picklists pick by specific formation # not "type" and if you change or remove a formation there's a good chance the picklist will need to be adjusated IF the original formation was used as a pick.

It's never as simple as people assume


Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

fixed now, required expanding the number of coys and platoons to ensure the disribution of units that was noted would not happen across all dates

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Is there any way for me to get a copy of the fix so I can correct the scenario, otherwise if I rebuild it the units will still stay the errant way, no? Also, is it correct for 120mm air dropped mortars to drop abandoned (talking airborne mortars now regular grunt ones)?

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I checked my medal and it was awarded in 2006 so that is when the scenarios were created.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

wait for the spring release. If these are scenarios already in the master game give me the scenario numbers but if there is a scenario problem I'll find in during my final checks next spring that I always run before a release


They do not drop abandoned, the crew drops independent of the mortar and it's the players job to re-unit the crew to the gun/mortar. So yes, it's working the way we want it to work.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I was going to rework Crossroads at Lubbeke as a play test left me wondering why I did what I did way back then. So if I rebuild it I will be loading a C hq Dhq D sqd D sqd onto a transport, then I will have to send them to you and hope they get fixed before the next release. Can I not just have the updated obat, it shouldn't be a big deal, or PM me and tell me how to fix it on my end? I would rather know everything is correct when I rebuild the scenario. I am also going to play test my others to make sure I am happy with them.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Got it, and it works, thanks. Now I can redo the scenario(s). How do I get them to you?

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

ZIP them up and post them here when they are updated and I will put them into the next patch

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Just an update. Crossroads is done and I am now play testing the changes made to Fintel ridge and Arnsberger Wald. I am also creating two new scenarios to finish off the Red Army game series (Red Army - Ralph Peters).

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

The Red Army scenario list has expanded from 3 to 5 scenarios and I am play testing the final one, the first 4 are good to go. Also at the Blitz I had the boys submit their custom made maps and we now have about 60 to 100 custom maps that are not part of SP, do you want them? These were submitted long ago to me at the Blitz and go in slots 325 to 470.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Good call Weasel if you can release them, some are quite good & have seen heavy use by myself.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I'll take the maps and get them in the next patch and the scenarios when you are ready but don't take too long, we are in assembly now and are hoping if all goes well to release early April

Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

The scenario is really basically done, I will have the RAR to you by 1 April if that is ok. I changed the slots for the Red Army scenarios from the original 182-184 to 321-325. The maps are 4 RAR folders, each of 2.6mb, can I post files that size here? They can be had here:

http://www.theblitz.org/downloads/b-...steel_panthers

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

scenario slots 321-325 are now used. 336 is the first available slot now.

The zips in that winsp map zips in that link vary in size, they are not all 2.6mb but I have them now and will investigate ( first off they don't start numbering at 325, they start at 300 which complicates things a bit but I will investigate this further )

EDIT................ I think sorting through these is going to take longer than I thought initally as WW2 themed maps are mixed with modern themed maps so I'm thinking I'm going to be forced to pick and choose what goes in and only after my other outstanding work gets done.. PLUS the two examples I have opened were both saved as map with the ID tag's on AND victory hexes in place which leaves ID tags and V hexes on the map unless they are turned off and the map resaved so every would need to be opened, checked and resaved which greatly eats into what little time I actually have available and I'm somewhat amazed that after all these years map makers don't know this and these were posted without being cleaned up first

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I will go through the maps and get rid of the messed up ones, starting at 300. Changing the slot is pretty easy too. As for theme, I never knew the maps were applicable to WW2 or MBT, I use them all in both versions the most important thing to me is the size and whether a stupid river is present.

***I just went through the first 20 and noticed something strange. At map 319 Canadian and Arab flags suddenly appeared in the water, opened 320 and they were still there in the same spot. Exited the editor and opened it again and the flags were gone from those maps. So far I have not found any with anything wrong in them.***

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Here are the scenarios from slot 336-340. Scenario 340 is still being play tested, I have updated it once yesterday. If need be I will upload it again but this way you can have it.

As for the maps, I am up to map 350 with only map 340 being messed up. If you would like me to renumber them I will, just give me directions and I will do so for you.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Don't worry about the maps. I've got what I need for this release

Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

All those sceanrios are dated 9/89 except Xroads at Lubbecke which is shows as 7/82 France vs Czech in scenhack...which is reading the scenario data....but the write up says September 2nd 1989......I ASSUME 9/89 is correct if yes, I've already corrected it,

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I generally don't think of "Stalingrad" as an MBT map just as I wouldn't put a Huế map in WW2. The player can do anything he wants the maps are interchangable between games

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Yes, that was an error when moving to new slot, 9/89 is correct.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Played the Belgian one last night. It's always fun to drop three T-80's into the canal when you nail the bridge they are sitting on with arty. I was working Leos in behind the ones that were left when the game ended.

Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

What was the outcome? I never put my tanks bumper to bumper, always at least 50m between afvs but you were playing the AI eh?

Did you want me to keep going through the maps for errant ones or are you doing it? If me, how would you like them numbered?

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I try REAL hard to never have vehicles end their turn on a bridge.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Me too, stop before or after but DRG was playing the AI I believe.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

High marginal victory for me as the Belgians. I tend to play like Gräbner on Arnhem bridge but I was holding back expecting the horde to show up at any moment but it was managable and I was bored and crossed the bridge in the "north" and started roaming around looking for trouble. I also re-situated the Strikers for greater concelment and wider range of view..........also.. I just noticed that game says these are Dutch.. They are Begians.... did you include the wrong TXT file ??

Red Army 1 - Forcing the Elbe*
Designed for SPMBT V9.1*
Designed for head to head, against AI human should play Russia*
*
Date: September 1st 1989; 0530*
*
Battle Location: The Elbe Canal near Uelzen, West Germany, opposite Dutch Forces*
*
Battle Type: Dutch Defend vs Russian Assault*
*

They are Belgians defending the canal

and yes it WOULD play better H2H but against the AI it's a good quick game to play

Forcing the Elbe
 

Belgian. Just reading the write up again, I say Dutch up top and Belgian in the write up. Must have been because I was writing them all up at once or something...brain cramp.

That is why I was glad that Walrus was willing to play test the games over and over after mods and such. As Russia he got a draw and I got a marginal as them. Will never be 100% equal just due to player ability.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I've got all I need for this year

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Here is R5 with a modification, small recon added to both sides. Still play testing, round 3 now.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

As played from the US side this would be a good beginners scenario to build confidence. To make this a challenge for the US side against the Russian AI you'd need 3x the T-80s or maybe a surprise mid game airstrike. I had so many Abrams wandering around looking for trouble I was more a traffic master but the whole time I kept expecting a Regiment to show up but they never did. I suspect this would be best played against the AI as the Russians

11254 / 1308 Decisive and most of my losses came mid game being cocky

That said if you like setting up ambushes and stopping advances in their tracks this is quite a bit of fun

LOVE the map

Why do you have a 2500 point V hex in the upper left corner in the grey hexes and why is the Russian HQ kept off the map set to re-enforce turn 30 which is beyond the turn limit of the game ?


Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..... I pressed EDIT when I meant to press QUOTE and deleted your reply . Sorry ! ( busy morning.........)

DRG

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Quote:

The flags are in the grey because they are not needed and they can't be deleted.

Then why give them 250 points each ?? If anyone DOES play this against the AI the AI is very confused it cannot reach V hexes to complete it's " mission" and it will change the way it "plays". a 2500 point V hex in the grays is like dangling raw meat over the edge of the boat in shark infested waters

What you do in cases where there are more V hexes than you want is make them worth zero and put them in the same hexes as other V hexes. Scenario design 101....do not leave V hexes hanging in the breeze on the grey edge hexes

From the game guide .....the complete quote

Red Army
 

Here is a modified slot 340 text.

Don't really care what the guide is telling me to do honestly, if the only thing the player has to ***** about is a flag in the grey area then the scenario is pretty damn good :D

I have easily created 50+ scenarios for all the tournaments and such that I have run, always did the same with unused flags; do it in my PBEM games with no concerns raised.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

The attachment would be handy.............

R5
 

Modified flags and text

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I on the other hand would respectfully disagree with you on the AI, granted it's not as intuitive as a human but, at least we have options to improve it's capabilities to give you a challenge. I have never seen the AI in any game not have units provide covering fire, how many players remember to do the same? Or how the AI likes to send a handful of tanks or recon units to your rear solely to deprive you of points because that's grabbing victory flags in your rear. Or helicopter and rarely airborne units being landed in your rear for the same purpose as just noted that's intuitive to me. How many of us would think to do that in a losing cause just to deprive the opponent of a "grander" victory? Is there things I'd like to see changed, absolutely! How might the game change if it had the option for ammo resupply the human player has? How many games might you/we have lost or lessen our victory points just on that change alone? In the preview we'll see some changes to the AI in a positive direction. And until we see more you can make it harder on yourself and better for the AI in the current game settings.

I only play a small part in this game in trying to make it better with my "One World One OOB" process in dealing with equipment issues and tracking various projects sometimes for years. With life, family and work the hours are very long and demanding of my free time in support of these games. These are grains in the sand compared to what some do and can't even touch the commitment of Andy and Don. The point is the AI from a resting stand point of view makes the most sense in play-ability and simple observation of the game mechanics involved.

And now CINCLANTFLT has advised me my time is up and I need to get ready for work.

Regards,
Pat

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I had attached it, just checked and it said the text document was "in progress" of being uploaded. Deleted it.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Hi; And sorry, I have to disagree with you. The AI is stupid. If a unit gets brewed up it will drive a second unit into the same hex, get it killed, and then send in a third and fourth. The AI artillery will ignore onboard artillery and shoot up an empty field while enemy units are running around its' rear areas. I have never seen the AI use OW or fire and movement nor put down a smoke screen on its' flanks to protect the attack. The AI will do one thing and one thing only, charge directly forward after a flag and destroy itself. The AI is zero challenge.

Cheers.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Got it

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

And yet when the AI hands people their a$$ they tell us it cheats.....addmittidly that hasn't been happening recently but every once in awhile a newbie who's been told the AI is a complete waste of time gets creamed then it starts. If it wasn't for the AI doing dumb things a lot of players couldn't win.

We didn't build the game for the hardcore 2%

Pat presents you with his observations and you dismiss them..... nice

Don

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

I dismissed them? I RESPECTFULLY disagreed. YOU dismissed my rebuttal. Does only Pat's view count because he has 1000+ posts here, I don't spend any time here for a reason long ago stated.

But to get along with Shrapnel...The AI is wonderful, it is the best there is, no need to play a human who thinks. NICE.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

The AI is not totally predictable and that alone makes it better then many I've seen.

Sure it's basic tactic is "Banzai !", but given most of the situations (assaults, advances, meeting engagements) represented in the game, the size of the map, the number of forces involved, and the scenario time limit what else can it do?
The maps rarely have room for a flanking maneuver even if the scenario was long enough to try one. Usually the AI concentrates most of it's forces in one section of the map with a few flanking units and bulls ahead, it really has no other option. Once in a while it puts almost everything on one flank or the other, sometimes it buys/uses airborne/airmobile forces, sometime it has airstrikes, frequently it has hordes of mortars/artillery which it occasionally uses for counter-battery but more often concentrates someplace it's spotted a few of the players units, it can't "see" what, if any, units are behind those so it takes an educated guess.

It's hardly as smart as all the the most foolish players but it's not moronic.

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

It's hardly as smart as all but the the most foolish players but it's not moronic.

((I really wish the forums allowed Firefox to edit posts))

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Try hitting the edit button a second time when you have the spinning thing - works for me 75% of time (Firefox, Win7)

Re: French Para Obat error?
 

Yeah , I hit the edit button two or three times now just out of habit. Once is not usually enough to get it's attention

Don