Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

First touch of Czechoslovak and Slovak OOBs, without going too deep (there could be added also Czechoslovak units in the UK, fighting in France in 1944, and more Slovak Uprising units - maybe in a next season... maybe not)

Main source is Charles K. Kliment, Vladimir Francev: Czechoslovak armored fighting vehicles 1918-1948

Czechoslovakia

001 CKD LT vz.34 - manufacturer's name CKD is redundant. Gun-armed tanks were delivered only from 12/35 (now 1/35 - it would need a change in formations).
MGs should be in fact vz.35 (#178 CMG and #131 BMG)
Same for Slovak OOB unit 003

There could be added another entry, with two light vz.26 MGs only, in 4/34-12/35 (weapon #230 BMG and a newly created single TMG).

002 Skoda LT vz.35 - manufacturer's name is redundant. First delivered in 12/36 (now 6/36)
MGs should be in fact vz.35 (#178 CMG and #131 BMG)
Standard ammo was 78 rounds (24 AT, 54 HE)
Same for Slovak OOB unit 002

008,255 Tancik vz.33 - in fact it had two BMG vz.26 (Slovak OOB has weapon #154 vz.26 (2) BMG - although I propose, that tankettes' MGs should have normal range)

Delivered only in 2/34 - needs change of formations 008, 011, 067, 069, 103
A better icon is 2757 (2759 winter) - they were very colorful (same for Slovak OOB units 008,255)
Front armour of unit 255 should be 1 like unit 08 (up to 12 mm)

Used again during the Slovak Uprising in 8/44


15 HKL6p Hakl - DShK MG is unlikely - most probably, original MG-42

20 OT-34/85 - usage of Soviet flamethrower tanks apart from the Soviet Army is doubtful - and Czech sources treating about post-war flamethrower tank prototype MP-1 don't mention, that Czech army had experience with such Soviet vehicles during the war (the army wanted to buy OT-34 in 1948, but the Soviets answered, that they are out of production)

22 SU-122 is very doubtful - according to Russian sources, they were replaced with more AT-capable SP-guns in early 1944. Production ended in 8/43 and only 638 were made.
On this Czech page there's no mention, that it was used in Czechoslovakia: http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/12426/SOV-SU-122 and in users section there are only Soviet and German flags.

17 AOP Light Truck - picture of 1.5t Dodge is inappropriate - if it was Soviet-delivered, 19037 3/4t Dodge or jeep is better (few 1.5t Dodges were delivered to the USSR).

35 Hetzer - was designated ST-I post-war. There's no mention, that they had DShK AAMG (and it's hard to imagine on such small vehicle). Firstly they could have original German MGs - but according to Kliment's book, "in Czechoslovak Army's service the Rundumfeur machine gun was deleted"

37 ST-II - name is correct, but it should be Marder III H with Pak-40 (18 were sold to Slovakia in 1944). I'll attach a photo of Czechoslovak Marder, there is also another:
http://www.ondrejkovics-sandor.com/u..._084512_23.jpg

50 OA vz 27 - a proper picture is 23098, used formerly for this unit (a current one is OA vz 30) - or there are pictures at http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...a_OA-vz-27.php
http://www.brannamoc1938.eu/obrnene-...obil-oa-vz-27/
Speed was only 35 km/h

An icon is completely different - probably the best would be 4023 of ADGZ (4025 winter) (grey camo is correct for OA vz.27).
There could be also German Sdkfz221 #4311, albeit with an open turret.

51 OA vz 30 - nicer picture is 9343, erroneously used for the unit above.
Better icon is 213 - they were camouflaged (winter 4448)
Main armament was only one vz.26 TMG (LMG in fact), and one such BMG. They could have lower kill, than other TMGs (adapted LMG, fed from box magazines)
Delivered from 1/34 only (now 1/30)
Used again during the Slovak Uprising in 8/44

Same for Slovak OOB units 50 and 51

79 37mm KPUV vz 30 - seems, that it should be vz.34 in fact: http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...puv-vz.34.html (next model was vz.37 - http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...-utocne-vozbe/)
It entered service in 1935, but I don't know what guns in AT role had Czechoslovakia before...

144 2&1/2 Ton Truck - if it was Soviet-delivered, then it would be Studebaker picture 9270, possibly AT-wheel

145 White Scout Car - MGs should be original US-made. PTRD is less likely at this stage of war (besides, they weren't standard armament of scout cars)

159 Avia B534 - according to a Czech book on B534, it could only carry six 10-kg bombs (now 120 kg)

---
Formation 070 FT-17 Platoon - seems, that it was five-tank platoon (Kliment's book says, after buying 5 tanks, that "the army now had a full platoon of tanks to show and to train with")

---
It would be nice to add units of the Slovak Uprising in 8-10/44 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_National_Uprising

- the easiest would be to copy tanks 02 LT vz.35, 03 LT vz.38, LT vz.40 (from Slovak OOB), 08 Tancik (marginal role though), 37 ST-II (as Marder III H), armoured car 51 OA vz 30, PzKpfw-III N (from German oob)
As for aircraft, 159 Avia B534 and 160 Letov S 328 were used.
It may be assumed, that Slovak Pak-40 guns were also used.

Michal

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

All armoured vehicles of the Slovak Uprising could go into one category, and be used as single vehicles or insurgent tank platoons (3-vehicle?)

If we'd like to add insurgent artillery, there were mostly used:
- 37mm vz.37 ATG (#81),
- PAK-40 ATG,
- 100mm howitzer vz.30 (#91, #173 battery),
- 100mm howitzer vz.14/19 (most typical),
- 105mm leFH-18,
- 20mm AA gun (#85)

There should be added 100mm FH vz.14/19, as the most typical Czechoslovak howitzer before the war (could be copied 332 and 411 units from Polish OOB).


That's all without going too deep in the Czechoslovak artillery.

It's worth to add some of tracked artillery tractors before the war - they had several models, most numerous was Praga IV, produced in series from 1938 http://www.brannamoc1938.eu/technika...ktor-praga-iv/
http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/23041/CZK-Praga-IV

In the future, there could be added Avia B-71 level bomber - licensed variant of Soviet SB-2, if we have an icon with Czechoslovak markings

There was also a funny-looking level bomber Aero MB-200 http://www.brannamoc1938.eu/aero2/aero-mb-200/ (French Bloch)

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Slovak OOB01

02,02 LT vz.35, LT vz.34 - official Slovak designations were LT-35, LT-34.
They both used three-color camouflage, like in the CS army - icon 473.
Both were used until the end (10/43 for this OOB) for training (although LT 35 indeed were withdrawn from front service by the end of 1941, and LT-34 weren't used in combat).

07,11 LT- vz.38, LT- vz.40 - names LT-38, LT-40.
Both should use the same khaki green camouflage - I think icon 1047 is appropriate for both (and in accordance with next tanks in OOB)

According to a Czech book on the Slovak Army, LT-40 tanks were completed with guns only in 12/41 - earlier they took part in combat armed with two MGs only (there should be made a second entry) - a photo http://utocnavozba.wz.cz/foto/Fotky_Praga/LT-40_01.jpg http://www.uhlib.ru/voennaja_istorij...ii/pic_754.jpg .

In 9/43 the Germans delivered first new LT-38 E/G variant, with stronger armour, that could be added (it's worth to add them also to Czechoslovak OOB, as participating in the Slovak uprising)

32 PzKw IIc - in fact, delivered only in 10/43 (the last month of this OOB). Class Armoured car is acceptable, since they replaced armoured cars in recce units.

33 PzKw IIIj - in fact, they should be PzKpfw III N (with short 75mm guns), delivered in 2/43.

34 Marder I 37L - they should be Marder III H. In fact they were delivered only in early 1944, but it's worth to keep them in 10/43
(BTW: why does this OOB end in 10/43?... Slovak axis units lasted until the uprising in 8/44 at least, though they tried to avoid active combat if they could)

52 OA vz 30bis - there's no mention about OA vz 30 armed with 20mm guns in Czech books (and these cars were too light to even accept a HMG...)

80 75mm Pak 97 - I couldn't find a confirmation of their usage, but PAK-40 were used from 1943

82,83 47mm KPUV vz 38 - the Czech book on Slovak army doesn't mention 47mm AT guns, only 37mm (I assume, that all were taken by the Germans, who needed them more)

86 47mm AA-Gun - strange gun, I couldn't find any confirmation.

142 Tatra T92 AOP - should be T82 (on the photo; T92 doesn't seem to be used by Slovakia)

158 Avia B.534 - as in the Czechoslovak OOB (6 x 10kg bombs max)

223 Avia Bf 109G - should be just Bf 109G (Avia was a manufacturer of post-war machines)

Easy additions:
- RSO tractor from 1943
- Aero A.100 bomber from Czechoslovak OOB (14 were used)
- Praga T-VI tractor (#223 from Romanian OOB, with changed class)
- Praga IV tractor, if it's added to Czechoslovak OOB
- 100 mm vz.14/19 FH (most numerous FH, as in a previous post)
- Praga RN medium truck (#212 from Romanian OOB)
- Praga AV utility vehicle (#216 from Romanian OOB)
- Tatra 57 field car (#222 from Romanian OOB, as utility vehicle and/or FO vehicle)

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Last one:

Czechoslovakia:

4 CKD ST vz.39 - it should use a bigger icon 469 (of Turan) - now it's the same as light LT vz.38.
Manufacturer's name is redundant.

13 Tatra Truck - a detail, but maybe it's worth to change class to Light Truck (which it was in fact) instead of APC(wheel) - it's the only unit in both classes in that period, so it won't demand other changes.

142 Tatra T92 AOP - a better name might be just Tatra AOP - pictured is T82 (in truck variant), used from 1936, but earlier there were used other 3-axle cars T26/30 and T72. T92 is wrong (haven't entered production before the German invasion).

158 Avia B534 uses a photo of less typical early version with open canopy (173 made) - an icon of the Czechoslovak aviation was the 4sth series, with a closed canopy (272 made, attached sample photo)

163 Avia BH-33L - I couldn't confirm, if BH-33 took any bombs, and it's highly unlikely, that it carried 50kg one. All publications mention only 2 MGs.

166-168,217-219 La-5N - should be FN

Easy additions:
- Praga RN medium truck (#212 from Romanian OOB) in 1934-39
- Praga AV utility vehicle (#216 from Romanian OOB) in 1936-39

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

I fervently hope you are serious about that

Don

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

In my dreams............

Actually there is a ST vz.39 Icon already in the SHP files but it's old ( 475 ) so I was going to use the green version of the Type 97 Chi-Ha Kai as it's much closer to the vz.39 than one would guess but then realized converting it to the Czech prototype was a relativity quick job


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1452606568

4x normal

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1452606373

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

I was serious about the last post in this subject, to make you feel more relaxed :)

I didn't want to add you work with a relatively unimportant prototype, but in service they would be camouflaged... (standard green-yellow-brown). BTW: you probably know this upper view
http://www.the-blueprints.com/bluepr...vz39-v-8-h.png

One more thought, since I wrote this post anyway. It would be cool to add PA-II Zelva armoured car http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...A-II_Zelva.php
An icon 3255 of Humber scout car would be almost ideal, albeit green.
Of course, no more than 2 of its 4 MGs could fire at one target.
According to Kliment's book, a designation OA vz.23 was only a planned one, since they were never officially commissioned.

Regards
Michal

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Yes but Michael... THEY WERE NEVER IN SERVICE and therefore were never camouflaged and that's why it's staying light green

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Digging. As always, I am not doing direct OOB suggestions as I suck at it :P

I would however consider adding Czechoslovak Army in the West into the OOB. It is in fact already there, as from July 1945 PHK Corps are available for Czechs with most of the tanks. It would be nice to see some more infantry organized on British pattern. Units would be added only late war and should not take much time.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Would those infantry units organised in the British pattern differ from British infantry units in the British OOB, which can already be purchased as "captured allies" by anyone wanting to construct such forces for a scenario?

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

It would be good, but there would have to be a will... It would sure need some work. The Belgians and the Dutch were lucky to get their tiny 1944-45 forces from the beginning of the game. Contrary to the mentioned nations, the Czecho-Slovak forces had "real" armoured brigade, however it spent all the war, from 10/44, besieging Dunkirk...

Anyway, in case it's needed, they used:
- Cromwells IV/VII from 2/44 as main tanks,
- Cromwells VI CS from around the same time,
- Sherman Ic Firefly in 8/44-5/45
- Challenger from 5/45
- Crusaders III for training from 1943? until some 8/44
- M5A1 Stuart from 2/45
- Humber scout cars

What's interesting, as soon as in May 1945, they packed their toys and drove home on their tanks :)

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

I'm just curious.......did you even bother to check the Czech OOB ???? I have to assume NO as will find the majority are already there just not in the same time period. We added them for post war "what if"

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Well, that's the tiny difference :) I admit I checked the OOB two years ago, only to find, that there is no British armour available in 1944. I can't remember if there were Cromwells post war...

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Just curious..... do you ever actually PLAY the game or do you just troll through the OOB's looking for things to "investigate" It's unclear if you look at any of this in the actual game because if you did the explanation for the PKH formations is built into the games information tab including the Dunkirk info.

There really was no good reason to include them at all since the ONLY reason anyone would use them is in a scenario NOT a generated battle and for that they can easily be built from the Brit OOB then renationalized to show the Czech ID tag..........but we did ( why ?? IDK.....but I'm close to certain they were added before we introduced the "Allies/ Captured" function to the game so I'm going to bet that was why) but there is NO reason whatsoever to backdate them ( if anyone has actually played a game with or against those units I'd be interested to hear about it )....

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Sometimes I PLAY scenarios. I admit I haven't ever played Czechoslovakia. But note, that this time it wasn't me, who demanded adding Western allied CS units.

BTW: thank you for calling my efforts to improve historical accuracy, "trolling through the OOB's". Unfortunately, it's a kind of addiction, that reaches back to SP1 times. It's unfortunate for me first of all, because I'm wasting time for researching, without any support - to say the least. Yes, I know nobody asked me. And most of the hints I give seem easier to fix, than to complain about, especially, that usually I write not only, what is wrong, but what should be done. Of course, sometimes I'm wrong as for game mechanisms or I demand too much work (if I could demand anything), but then you can just ignore it.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

I guess One mans "efforts to improve historical accuracy" is another mans "trolling through the OOB's"

You produce these huge lists and the ONLY way anyone can produce a list like that is to sit down, load a unit with MOBHack then crack open a book or books looking for differences from what we have entered vs whatever your book says ( most of which seem only available to you ) and I have found many cases where your source differs from other sources when I try to double check the change you are saying needs to be done.

Also whatever time you take to investigate it takes me just as long or longer to confirm and make sure it doen't disrupt a formation (or AI picklist !! which NOBODY but us takes into consideration with those "To be removed IMO") unless I feel it's not worth cross checking so much of the time I would like to spend doing things to advance the game is spent re-arranging data that in the vast majoity of cases I KNOW will not make an impact to the game play or to the majority of players so every year I end up investing a significant portion of the time I have available changing ( for example ) aircraft introduction dates by a month or two " helpful" suggestions on what gun Icon would be best when I KNOW the differences are Only apparent in MOBHack NOT the game and endless fussing over which photo you think would be best ( most of which I ignore but it still takes time to consider the change ).

I know for all the hundreds of hours I put in every year wading through all of this the actual impact on gameplay is minimal yet I continue to at least go through every suggestion you or anyone else makes but I toss out more and more every year. Yes, I could just ignore them..... Andy does and he's the original OOB guru..It's safe to say Andy would have been happy still playing with the OOB's we had when we release the first windows version.... I just inherited the job ( that I DO NOT enjoy ) when he moved to programmer

And yes Micheal you are right about one thing YOU made the decision to do this without encouragement from Camo Workshop so don't complain about being under appreciated.

Now.... that all said I DO think the OOBs ARE better than they were from a detailed accuracy POV than they were a decade ago but the overall effect on gameplay is minimal

Don

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

EXACTLY correct

The armour was added for what ifs, the infantry was not and there is little need for them anyway except in scenarios and there are ample ways built into the game to added them seamlessly from other OOB's for scenario use

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

I some sort of inconsistency here.

At one point you intentionally add PHK Corps for "what if" scenarios, just to make them accessible for what if scenarios, even if 1945+ CSLA scenario is highly unlikely - and yu make all your work to do that even if people can buy UK units in captured mode.

Then you literally refuse to add 1-2 additional companies of infantry on the very same basis and shift availability to 8/44 to make them historically accessible - by argumenting that you can buy units in captured mode.

Maybe I get into your way, I do scenarios - not TOEs. But for the love of God, if it is few minutes work and adds significant amount of units to one of the nations - why not? Won't that make the game better?

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

...better don't annoy Don, sure he's got much work anyway ;)

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

If you went through each OOB & suggested the top half dozen adjustments for each they would probably be actioned & in the game by now.
You persist in giving huge lists rather than limiting it to the important changes.
The time to check & implement them is massive, longer than you spend doing the research & the designers have many other calls on their time improving the game which is I would guess why your lists never get actioned.
Try submitting your Top 50 changes next year & they might just get in, OOB work is incredibly boring I know I have done it & I for one prefer Don to spend the time refining the game system.
Realistically they are not going to do so for much longer so let them do what they are good at, OOBs we can tinker with ourselves.

You could build your own OOB's & post for anybody that's interested.
Include a text file listing the changes & or mark changed unit formation names with a symbol so changes stand out.
We can delete the symbol if we wish.
If you cant use things like @ or# put a capital Z or P for Pibwl at the end of the name.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Personally I'm of the opinion that such units shouldn't have been added in the first place, primarily because if you wanted to be consistent then the list would be absolutely enormous.

For example, if the Czechoslovak troops are added, then one could also make a case for adding additional units and formations for all the Axis minor nation troops that participated as part of the Wehrmacht in the invasion of the USSR, all the non-German Waffen-SS units, tiny partisan factions, obscure pro-Axis police units...

That would be a huge amount of work, but only a handful of players would ever use those units. On the other hand, if the designers put their time in improving other aspects of the game, it would be appreciated by a far greater number of people.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

I agree. That's why I didn't propose to add CS units in Great Britain in a very beginning of this thread.
More useful could be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_National_Uprising units, demanding basically extending several Slovak units and formations until 10/44 - but I don't dare to propose it :)

---

It's no secret, that my primary interest are color pictures, and in this purpose I use Mobhack. In most cases I don't check unit by unit, only something that catches my eye, and raises doubts. Sometimes if I find inaccuracies, I catch up and check other similar units and search info. Sometimes the other way - first I read a book, and then wonder, how the units are depicted in SPWW2. If there exist recent detailed sources, especially written by authors coming from these countries, I'm sometimes too eager to share a newly acquired knowledge ;) You do what you want with that info.

And I don't want to create own OOBs, because they would differ only in tens of small adjustments, a handful of new units, and - first of all - maybe a dozen people would ever be interested in them... I passed through a stage of creating own OOBs over 15-20 years ago, when I created a corrected SP-I set (...was it THAT long ago?...). Now I'm only wasting time for creating pictures - and sometimes I spot something, that is IMO worth to correct.

Some people improve game mechanism (which IMO is quite adequate now ;)), some build maps, some create scenarios, I am accuracy aficionado. And I agree, that most of these changes have no impact on the game, but - at least me - I like to see correct details, like gun or truck icons in a battle - if we don't have a limited symbolic SP-I icon set any more, but already have a lot of them available, and it's enough to choose the best one. You have the man, who does half of the job, instead of just complaining "this truck doesn't resemble what it should" (I know, that you'd just ignore it). Now you can choose if to ignore, or to follow the suggestion of improvement.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

So why not stick mainly to them instead of producing huge lists?
Quick to look at & action.

By your own admition now all these changes you submit are of little interest to most players. Time to check & action should therefore probably be spent on things that appeal to a larger base of users.

As I said why not submit your top 50 unit changes for the year rather than huge lists.
I am sure some of your corrections would be good but they don't get actioned because they get missed or ignored due to the volume of data you create.

Does this not make sense to you, submit the important stuff only & it might get in rather than most of your work going to waste.
You produce to big a workload at present so are just making lists for your enjoyment.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Considering the way the OOBs are organised, it is not that trivial to just copy and paste formations from one OOB to another. You will need to add the weapons, then you will need to add the units (using unit classes that are not used for other purposes in that timeframe to avoid mix-ups) and then the formations. Trying to simply copy-paste everything from OOB to another may lead to issues due to the weapon/unit/formation slots being already utilised for other purposes.

Then there is also the issue of maintenability - the more you repeat weapons and units across OOBs, the harder it is to maintain consistency when changes are made to data. Issue probably not helped by the fact that the same weapon or vehicle can exist under different names in different OOBs - though this adds to the historical flavour of the game.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Because, as a perfectionist, when I see an error or something, than can be easily improved (icon, name etc), I can't ignore it. I feel, that my duty is to report it, and it's up to Camo staff, what to do with this knowledge. I agree, that sometimes my remarks may be trivial or annoying - sorry... If I made own OOBs, I'd just simply improve it myself, but as I wrote, it doesn't make any sense. I'm ignoring things, that need more effort, when it isn't worth it, anyway. And yes, I apparently do it for enjoyment - or rather it's an addiction...;)

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Anyway, back to the main subject. This year I managed to investigate mainly Czechoslovak artillery (which has been omitted somehow), thanks to a reliably-looking Czech page http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191.../aktualne.html
------------

AT guns:

79 37mm KPUV vz 30 - it should be vz.34 in fact, and according to http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...puv-vz.34.html they were delivered only in a course of 1935 (now 1930). There were no earlier AT guns adopted and their units became first special AT units of CS Army.
Current photo is vz.37 gun, with a very different shield - photos of vz.34 are here: http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...be/kpuv-vz_34/

If we need to have AT gun before that date, than maybe there should be added 75mm vz.15 mountain gun as a stop-gap measure? According to http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...y-kanon-vz.15/ their crews trained AT shooting. (Není bez zajímavosti, že cvičební řád pro horské kanony vz.15 pamatoval i na boj s tanky a obsluhy ho intenzivně nacvičovaly.). It may be copied from Romanian unit 035 or Hungarian unit 035.

This gun could be added as mountain artillery as well.


81 37mm KPUV vz 37 - icon should differ from vz.34 gun - best seems 8008 (a flat shield covered wheels, picture: http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig48/10481102p.jpg )
According to http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...uv--vz.37.html, first guns were made in 12/37 (now 1/37).

82 47mm KPUV vz 38 - according to http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...puv-vz.38.html , no guns were delivered to CS Army before German invasion - deliveries were scheduled on second half of 1939 only (První série kanonů však mohla být dodána až v druhé polovině roku 1939 a přebírali je již okupanti. )
Maybe it should be added eg. as a heavy AT gun, with prototype status?

-----------

Field artillery:


90 76mm Field Gun (vz.30) - range 208 is much too big - according to Chamberlain/Gardner "Light and Medium Field Artillery" it was 13.5 km, http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...non-vz_30.html gives 13.2 km.
BTW: original calibre designation according to that page was 8cm.

It's a detail, but icon 2116 has much too thick barrel for 76mm - best seems 2169, with its split trail and bigger shield.

91 100mm Howitzer (vz.30) - range 206 is too big. Despite Chamberlain/Gardner credit it with 16.000 km, but with barrel length L/25 it is rather impossible. On the other hand, book "Slovenska armada 1939-1945" by Kliment/Nakladal credit it with 10.600 m, the same http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...ice-vz.30.html (there might have been a simple typo in Western sources).

Icon has much too long barrel, best seems 2170 (which BTW uses the same gun bed, as proposed for 76cm vz.30 gun, how was in fact - the two guns were related)

The same remarks as for range and icon apply for Romanian unit 138

The same remarks for Yugoslavian unit 135 100mm Howitzer - it was similar earlier export vz.28 howitzer, but even Chamberlain/Gardner this time credit it with 10.700 m (now: 207). An icon is wrong twin-trail.


174 149mm Battery (vz.15/16 gun) - weapon's name and photo indicates 15cm vz.15/16 heavy cannon, but its caliber was 152 mm and it had an extremely long range of 20.5km (now: 205): http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...anon-vz-15_16/
However, it was very rare piece of the heaviest artillery (only 11 used: http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...zari-1938.html), so it could be replaced with more typical 15cm howitzer - or supplemented with it.

There were two models of 149mm off-map howitzers:
- common 149 mm vz.25 howitzer of heavy artillery (340 pieces, range 11.8km) http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...ice-vz.25.html (photos: http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...oufnice-vz-25/)
- or rare 149 mm vz.15 howitzer of the heaviest artillery units (48 pieces, range 12.6km)
http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...ice-vz.15.html
more photos: http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...oufnice-vz_15/

I suggest to add vz.25 howitzer, especially, that it was also used by Slovakia.

For a long-ranger artillery, rare 15cm vz.15/16 cannon could be replaced with more common 105mm gun vz.35 - 18 km (http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...non-vz.35.html), twin-trail icon - best 2125, ready photo 2243.
They were also used by Slovakia.


175 220mm Battery - according to Polish books on 220mm Skoda mortar, CS army didn't eventually buy vz.28 mortars, and this junk was only produced for export. Also, they are not mentioned in Czech inventory http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...zari-1938.html
According to the inventory and the page http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...elostrelectvo/ there were used instead 30.5cm vz.16 mortars (12.3km) and 21cm vz.18 mortars (10.6km)

305mm mortar could be copied from Yugoslavian unit #98.


179 122mm Battery (Soviet origin) - a detail, but a weapon's name should be M-30 or vz.38 FH (Soviet obr.38), not vz.31.

182 76mm Battery - Soviet origin. The weapon has much too big range 208 - Soviet one has 203 (correct). However, definitely more probable weapon is ZiS-3 obr.42 (vz.42), not vz.39 (the same performance). Photo is some unidentified gun, but definitely not Soviet 76mm (leFh18?) - it's better to change it to ZiS-3 eg. 14139.

183 152mm Battery (Soviet origin) - apparently the weapon should be Soviet standard late-war D-1 obr.43 (vz.43) howitzer, as the photo indicates, not vz.10.
Range 208 is much too big - the Soviet one has 202 (12.4km).

185 76mm Howitzer (vz.30) - most probably it should be Soviet-origin 76mm field gun in that period (first of all, obr.42 ZiS-3). Surely the Czechoslovak army in the USSR had no access to CS prewar guns in 11/43.

186 122mm Howitzer - as I wrote for Soviet OOB, better icon is 2167, with correct proportions - current has too long barrel (it was only L/15).

So much for the artillery.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Misc simple:

50 OA vz 27 - first date 4/39 is an error (later than the second one) - it should be 1/30, and 072 formation should be modified accordingly.
Desert icon is a different car, should be 4022 or rather basic grey 4023 (they weren't supposed to operate on any desert anyway)
Drive type should be wheel only - they used an over-sophisticated 4x4 drive, in which only one axle was driven at a time, depending on a direction... (Charles K. Kliment, Vladimir Francev: "Czechoslovak armored fighting vehicles 1918-1948")

66 Praga RV - Polish OOb uses icon 138, which seems to fit better (upper view http://panzergarage.com/WebRoot/Stor...ga_RV._atr.png)

137 Skoda 903 - according to this Czech magazine http://www.jan-tucek.wz.cz/clanky_od...mobil_9_15.pdf Skoda 903 6x4 car wasn't in fact produced for CS army. Only 2 prototypes were built before the war, and only a small batch of 42 vehicles was produced in 1941 for Germans (intended for Yugoslavia).

It could be removed or better changed to generic Tatra staff car, representing a family of most typical 6x4 staff cars in CS army (T26/30 used from 1930, then T72 and T82). Photo might be 8904, although it is later wartime model T93 for Romania.
(photos of T72 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DQJiDffDOtE/maxresdefault.jpg, T82: http://i.wheelsage.org/pictures/t/ta...rototype_1.jpg, https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8001/7...06ba294f_c.jpg )

They can be AT-wheel vehicles - in Czechoslovak army they were treated so, and their 6x4 drive gave them improved off-road characteristics.

Same for Slovak unit 137

138 Tatra Truck - same as above with AT-drive. They were in fact truck versions of same 6x4 vehicles. Better icon IMO is 3179 or 2138 to mark their smaller size, similar to cars.

Same for units 13 and 142 and Slovak units 13, 138, 142.

139 Praga AV - photo is Tatra T93, correct is eg. 23170. Same remarks as above as for AT-drive.

Same for Slovak unit 139

143 1&1/2 Ton Truck - standard vehicle in Soviet-organized armies was 3/4t Dodge (photo eg. 20685 or 19037), 1&1/2t Dodge was rather an exception.

155, 169 Avia B.71 - photo is German, correct is 2256


170 Tupolev G-2 - improbable as paratroop transport in late war period - should be just Lisunov Li-2 (#220 in Soviet OOB)

255 Tancik vz.33 - Delivered only in 2/34 (6/33) (as unit 008) - needs change of formation 103 Police Tank Pl (actually, they weren't used as police tanks, but in ordinary armoured regiments, and later border units)

There was one funny armoured car worth to add: PA-II Zelva (turtle) http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww...A-II_Zelva.php (according to Kliment's book, a designation OA vz.23 was only a planned one).
Unit 050 OA vz 27 (PA-III) can serve as a direct pattern, an icon 3255 of Humber scout car would be almost ideal (albeit green), and there is even a photo 9316.
According to Charles K. Kliment, Vladimir Francev: "Czechoslovak armored fighting vehicles 1918-1948", it could develop a high speed 70 km/h on road. Drive type should be wheel only as well. Used from 1/30 until 1937, when they were sold to the police (there could be the second entry, for formation 103 Police Tank Pl).

Of course, no more than 2 of its 4 MGs could fire at one target.

That's probably all regarding Czechoslovakia.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

To be precise, according to all sources it was armed with 7.92mm Maxim MG08 (vz.08) TMGs. Weapon could have the same specifications as #211 7.92mm vz24 TMG (or weapon 207 in Polish OOB 7.92wz.08/15TMG could be copied with changed name).

BTW: I've just noticed, that weapon 211 7.92mm vz24 TMG has possibly too much range 30, while TMG/CMGs of this caliber usually have 24. Same for Slovakia,

According to Czech article in HPM 10/1994, PA-II were withdrawn from the army by 10/36, then from 11/37 until 1939 used by the police.

One more thing: size 4 of 050 OA vz.27 (as well as PA-II) is too big - they were of similar same size as AEC AC, SdKfz-231 or ADGZ (BTW: unit 842 in German OOB Steyr ADGZ has size 2, which is definitely too small). Same for Slovak unit 050.

On the other hand, 051 OA vz 30 (size 3), in spite of its 6x4 drive, was a very compact car - 4.02m long and 2.02m high, which was similar or even less, than size 2 cars, like SdKfz-222, BA-20, FA-I or Polish wz.34.
The same for Slovak unit 51, Romanian unit 323, Hungarian unit 320.
(BTW, Romanian one should be AT/wheel like the rest.)

---

It's worth to add some tracked artillery tractor. Since 1935 Czechoslovakia used some 200 of them, mostly medium Praga IV model. It could be copied from Slovak unit 155 Praga T-VI-R, with some generic name (although the photo represents a later model T-VI, not used by CS Army, but it could do).

--------

Slovak OOB:


002 LT-35 - icon should be 473, like Czechoslovak one - all sources agree, that they retained their pre-war camouflage.

007 LT-38 - according to Kliment/Francev, the tanks were finally delivered in German yellow (icon 4437) (first five were in pre-war camouflage, then new tanks were delivered in khaki, and finally yellow). Yellow icon would allow to differ from 011 LT-40 (which are said to be khaki only).

It's worth to add early LT-40 tanks with two MGs only, used from 11/40 until 12/41, also in combat (photo: http://utocnavozba.wz.cz/foto/Fotky_Praga/LT-40_01.jpg )

33 PzKw III N, 34 Marder III H - basic icons should be yellow 1039 and 3009, according to Kliment/Nakladal "Slovenska armada 1939-1945" and this color plate: https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/030...2022335672.jpg
All signs show, that this should apply also to 32 PzKw II, which surely weren't green (only Czechoslovak-delivered vehicles were). Yellow icon is 1434 (BTW: current desert icon is white).

78,81 37mm KPUV vz 37 - best icon is 8008, as stated before (now it's split-trail field gun).

90 76mm Field Gun (vz.30) - according to Kliment/Nakladal "Slovenska armada 1939-1945", the only light field guns used by Slovak army were 75mm vz.15 mountain guns (I've described it in CS section) - Slovakia had no modern vz.30 guns.

Same for unit 185, which additionally has Heat ammo (I don't know if it existed for old vz.15 mountain guns).


The same applies for 92 76mm Field Gun (Inf. gun).

(a small number of 75mm leIG-18 were also received from Germany in 1943).

91 100mm Howitzer (vz.30) - same remarks, as for Czechoslovakia - range 206 is too big (should be 201), best icon is 2170.

72 76mm Battery - the only 76mm guns used were on-map vz.15 (range 7 km)

174 149mm Battery - the same remarks as for Czechoslovakia. Slovakia didn't receive long-range 152mm guns (pictured), but had 149mm vz.25 howitzers instead.

There also could be added long-range 105mm gun vz.35, described earlier, used by Slovakia according to Kliment/Nakladal "Slovenska armada 1939-1945".

154 Steyr RSO - according to Polish article on RSO, Jentz's book on Pak 40 auf RSO and German Wikipedia https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raupenschlepper_Ost , max speed of the RSO was only 17 km/h (now 10)
Same for Polish LWP #55 RSO, German #154 RSO and Romanian #224.

155 Praga T-VI-R - only 25 km/h according to Czech book on artillery tractors (now speed 12).

175 220mm Battery - there were no 220mm artillery in CS army (as stated before), and Slovakia didn't receive other siege artillery.

From mid-42 Slovakia used also 105mm leFh18.

187 5cm PaK - no info in Kliment/Nakladal "Slovenska armada 1939-1945", that they were given by Germans (and there is quite detailed list) - only Pak 40.

I believe, that's all.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

It's a detail, but according to Kliment/Francev, OA vz.27 armoured car had "much improved fire efficiency" comparing to previous model, "due to the use of spotting scopes on the machine guns". So maybe it's worth FC=1, like eg. Polish TK-S tankette with a scoped MG.

I promise, this time that's all ;)

A couple of pictures attached, including typical CS tractor Praga IV.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

:up: Thank you, on behalf of Western Slavs :)

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

Thanks for taking my suggestions under consideration.

While working on colour pictures, I've discovered, that, surprisingly, Czechoslovakia didn't use generic 81mm Stokes-Brandt 74 8cm Mortar Sec. It is not in inventory at http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...roce-1927.html and http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...zari-1938.html
Czechoslovakia used older 9cm vz.17 mortar instead http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...met-vz.17.html - range only 1920 m, HE kill might be 13, like Japanese weapon #221
(photo http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...17/45.jpg.html)

Also heavy mortar 14cm vz.18 could be added http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...met-vz.18.html - range 2650 m, used in separate units (4-mortar batteries) in 1930-39
photo http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191.../m-vz.jpg.html

Some leftovers from previous files:

81 37mm KPUV vz 37 -
According to http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...uv--vz.37.html, first guns were accepted by the Army in 12/37 (now 1/37).

90 76mm Field Gun - maybe it's worth to give it original Army designation 8cm Field Gun? http://www.delostrelectvocsarmady191...non-vz_30.html

91 100mm Howitzer - icon is the same as 76mm gun above, best seems 2116 with thicker barrel (although it was a bit shorter, than 76mm gun on unified carriage - 2.5m vs 3m. Icon 2170 has the same carriage, but might have too thin barrel).

Same for Slovak unit 91

183 152mm Battery - Soviet origin weapon, should be renamed from vz.10 (range has been corrected to Soviet M-10 or D-1 howitzers). The photo 2590 is used for Soviet M-10... but in fact it is most probably ML-20 long-range gun-howitzer (Soviet OOB 123 and 145 units might have this photo changed to real M-10 photo 23258).

So I suggest to rename weapon to M-10 (vz.38) and change photo to 23258 - or make it better ML-20 gun-howitzer (vz.37) with range 207.

(BTW: most typical late-war Soviet "short" howitzer would be D-1 vz.43, with the same range 202 and previous drawing 114)

189 76mm AT-Gun - it's rather improbable, that Soviet allies would receive in 1943 pre-war obr.1936 (F-22 L/51) guns (largely lost in 1941) - most probable would be standard ZiS-3 obr.1942 (like Soviet unit 281)

Cars:

139 Tatra T93 - it's best to change it back to Praga AV, since we have generic 137 Tatra Staff Car, covering all models of six-wheel Tatras, while we have no Praga. There is a photo 23170 or 22214 of Praga AV.

Same photo should be for Slovak unit 139 (Praga AV)

That's probably all this time.

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

I adjusted the mortars this morning and will look at the rest in the fall

Re: Czechoslovak OOB37 and Slovak OOB01
 

That's OK, take your time.

Since I'm done with pictures, I'll tidy up my notes and add some more suggestions on other countries in following months. If you find time, you can check them, otherwise just ignore. But don't shoot at the messenger ;)

I forgot to add, that T93 wasn't used by Chechoslovak army at all - only produced for Romania during he war.