End date 2030, 100 years...
 

The reason I say that is that that would have SG WWII - MBT covering 100 years or, to put it another way, roughly the difference in time between the battle of Waterloo in 1815 and the Somme in 1916, or from the Somme to today.

Food for thought on many different levels...

Have things changed more or less? Has weapons and technology advanced more quickly or more slowly? What do you think?

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

Good one, as an armchair colonel i've always ask myself this question from time to time. But as much as technology dazzles and sparks, with flying tanks, hovering laser turreted drones, cheetah, aracnid or humanoid like terminator robots, infantry will always prevail even though the meat grinder and cannon fodder days are hopefully forever far gone.

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

I think it depends on what you're willing to die (sacrifice) for. Unlike the beaches of Normandy or the carnage at Iwo Jima, with volunteer armies we're not willing to die as that generation of WW2.

This war on terror has not solicited the same willingness to prevail as once was to defeat the Axis powers.

In the US, the days immediately following Pearl Harbor, the recruiting lines culminated in blocks. After, 9/11 we were told to go shopping whilst recruiters offered sign up bonuses.

Maybe in a future war, that generation will display the same willingness as a society to sacrifice as those did in WW2.

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Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

It's a multifaceted problem these days.

With the global internet most of us, heck look at these forums, have far more contact with people outside our own nation/ethnic group then they had in the past, we KNOW the "common man" isn't all that different anyplace in the world. So it's harder to see people as "inhuman foes" as they were often portrayed in the past.

Also we actually do have a pretty much of global economy, so national leaders have to carefully weigh the cost of a war vs the benefits.

With the "War on Terror" we have a "worthy foe", but unlike the past we can't attack their nation/infrastructure because they don't have one.

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

Looking through the OOB's gives you a pretty good idea of how things advanced & who came up with what.
Progress is sometimes slow, & sometimes leaps quickly..
Armor advances, ammo advances armor takes a big leap or its discovered you have been badly uderestimating your opponent, bigger gun & improve the ammo.
Same with everrything from RPGs to SAMs you can see who is good at what split it down further, who is good at giros firecontrol vision devices etc & normally has an edge in that area.
The original M1 was a huge jump forward for the US fast well armored superb accuracy for the day & the ability in the right conditions to detect the enemy long before they can see you.
Unfortunatly those last 2 huge advantages were negated by the firepower. Russia would have realised pretty quickly let the T-64s deal with the standard stuff & send the T-80s against them possibly along with any cannon fodder they could get mobile.
So it still would not have dominated the battlefield vs Russia like the Tiger or even the Matilda in some theatres.
When your talking armor in WWll you were fairy unlucky if you didnt at least have something that could pose a threat even if not a significant one, you could at least cause a bump in the road. Modern armor vs old tech is plain & simply a Turkey shoot. Technology gap is so vast now from drones, battlefield awarness to firecontrol & protection between a Main Player & 3rd rate country standard warfare would be pretty much suicide.
Its also good fun exploring some of the African or South American countries OOBs for some strange mixes of Tech & definetly diffrent types of tactics you need.
You might have fairly high end SAMs & Manpads but still be using upgraded Shermans, be very carefull with them the othersides RPG or RCL could destroy something with 3 x the armor.
Israel is an intresting OOB to some countries that seem on a constant war footing dont seem to advance much but Israel is constantly upgrading & looking at new ways to gain an advantage.
Heck US funding is worth every cent I would say, Merkerva & Abrahms have been evaluated in side by side tests. US has studied how they fight especially in urban areas & modified tactics & vehicles accordingly.

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

Something else you really need to keep in mind is how common various systems are. While folks like SEALS, SAS, and Spetsnaz have lots of nice toys they're really only used by those specialized units.

A common problem with the Soviets and in particular their Pact allies is people, and the AI, tend to buy the best current to the date of the battle units. Yet in reality only a very limited number of these systems are available, perhaps even years after they are introduced.

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

In 2030, there will probably still be people using Mosin-Nagants or Lee-Enfields in places like Donbass and Syria. Did anyone have a Brown Bess in World War I?

(some of TE Lawrence's people probably had muskets, but I think even those were generally rifled)

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

[quote=Firestorm;836401]Sorry to get finicky, but isn't "rifled musket" an oxymoron? The term has been used to describe muzzle-loading rifles during the US civil war, but technically if the firearm's barrel is spirally grooved and it fires a pointed cylindrical bullet isn't it a species of rifle?

Anyway Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or just plain Happy Holidays folks!

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

Musket generally refers to a muzzle-loading weapon.
Rifled generally refers to a weapon with a rifled barrel.

So "Rifled musket" is a legitimate, if not often used, term.

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

[quote=jivemi;836402]Depends. Before the 1840's, there was a definite dichotomy between a "musket" and a rifle because they both had their strengths and weaknesses. Rifles were more accurate but slow loading; you can just drop a musketball down the barrel and fire it, where an early rifle-ball had to fit so tightly for the rifling to actually work that you had to take your time to hammer it down the barrel. R. Lee Ermy explains it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ2JdkG2Yi4

The invention of the minie ball changed that, it removed almost all of a muzzle-loading rifle's disadvantages. By 1865 almost everyone had a "rifled musket" of some kind—and some of these were literally smooothbore muskets that had grooves cut in the barrels to turn them into rifles— so they just started calling anything muzzleloaded a "musket" to differentiate them from the next wave of technology: breech-loading and lever-action guns that were becoming more and more common.

Interestingly enough, I've seen sources from World War I refer to old guns that were still in limited military use (lever-action Winchesters, breach-loading Martini-Henrys) as "muskets". Might have once been a fairly generic term for obsolete service weapons, though I don't know for sure.

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

My observations from different eras from the game:

The first period is probably 1930-1941. In this period, there are mostly infantry battles with armor of any kind being a very valuable asset (some AT guns are so crappy they have a hard time knocking out Panzer IIs). Some monsters are almost immune, for example KV-1 tanks.
The next one is from 1941-1945. In this period, AT guns are more effective and can reliably kill the most common tanks on the battlefield, however there are some tough opponents like the Kingtiger, the IS-2 etc. Infantry is better equipped to deal with enemy armor thanks to panzerfaust, bazooka etc.
Then we go to 1945-1959. Early Cold war period. The battle ranges increase, HEAT AT rounds become more effective but still, armor is relevant (although I do think that tanks of this period are are more vulnerable to KE projectiles than they actually were but anyway:)). The best AT weapons are frankly, other tanks.
Then it is 1960-1970. HEAT becomes widespread, ATGMs make their appearance in numbers. Tanks are extremely vulnerable and good tactics are a must. Towards the end of this period, the Soviets deploy the first tanks that are resistant to HEAT, but they arent exactly immune.
Then we have 1970-1991. Late COld war period. The latest tanks can resist HEAT very well and they are tough even for many KE projectiles. NATO has an edge there, thanks to more submunitions in artillery and thermal imaging, although SOviets have some goodies in the form of ERA and active protection vs guided projectiles. Grunts have it tough with LAWs/RPGs vs. modern tanks.
Lastly, 1991-end. This era is actually a continuation of the last one, with more guided projectiles. Tanks are a mixed bag since they are vulnerable to many things, but also quite resistant to others and the newest vehicles have insane turret armor. This period is mostly characterised by "hide, make a quick attack and hide again".

That is my 2 cents on how warfare has changed in the eyes of WinSPMBT. Any other observations are most welcome.:)

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

It's not just armor it's overall.

The ability to move, communicate, detect and hit opponents has been improving steadily since the advent of the railroad, telegraph, rifled barrel, and the observation balloon.

The Tactics of Napoleon were suicidal in the American Civil War, those of the Civil War suicidal in WW I, etc. etc. While the methods of the last war often work fine vs less technologically sophisticated opponents they're not viable vs top tier ones.

Along with this has come a steady downward spiral in the size of the "key" tactical unit. From the divisions of Napoleon to the brigades of WW I, to the regiments of WW II, to the battalions of Vietnam, to the companies of recent conflicts, to almost the platoon level.

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

[quote=Firestorm;836404]Thanks for the video and explication. So now I know that early rifles (Kentucky Long and British Baker of Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe's Rifles fame) fired ball instead of conical bullets. Learn something new here all the time. Cheers!

Re: End date 2030, 100 years...
 

Early muzzle loading rifles needed some kind of patch to grip the rifling, this made them slow to load. Also early riflemen would often hand measure and load the powder (to aid accuracy) rather than use premade up cartridges (cartridge paper is a term we still use) hence they could never fully replace smooth bore muskets, until the invention of the expanding -minie- bullet in the 1850's.

In an emergency you could load a early muzzle loading rifle without the patch, but with nothing to grip the rifling you had no more accuracy than with a smooth bore Musket.

Smooth bore muskets, fired in a volly by massed soldiers, were accurate enough out to about 100 yards, but pretty well useless at much over 200 yards.

Rifled Muskets like the Minie and the Enfield pushed the effective range, again for volly fire, out to maximum of up to 400 yards and one of the things that meant was that infantry could now engage artillery at beyond canister range (anti personnel round, of lead balls packed in a tin, that turned a smooth bore field piece into a giant shotgun).