2017 release Map work
 

I'm starting this thread for anyone who wants to discuss the new map terrain and editing tools once the patch is released and I'll start it off with a map I've been working on but not included with the patch. I will post it once the patch is released but it uses many of the new terrain and all of the new terrain application tools.

Unfortunately, at this time this is the best I can do to illustrate it so it's more teaser than informative but there is a RAR attached with it zoomed out as far as possible for the game for any map maker who might be interested in seeing what's been done

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1488308006
but that is a 200x160 map so represents and area 10km x 8 km so 80 sq km

EDIT.

Something about the map had been nagging me so I rechecked a copy of an original paper map from the era and realised I had placed the town a bit too far "east"..there was a critical hill that should have been due south of the town that ended up being more south-west...... but with the custom editor what used to be impossible without a redo was simply a matter of cutting a section out, moving the entire town "west" then reconnecting the roads and streams then tidy up the edges

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1488371569

JUST A REMINDER.....THE ATTACHMENT IN THIS POST IS NOT THE MAP ONLY A SCREENSHOT OF IT...THE ACTUAL MAP IS IN POST #17 OF THIS THREAD

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Don.. this is fantastic! It looks like real terrain, rather than the cookie-cutter SP maps of the past decades.

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Wait till you see it in the game....:D
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1488328466

This does show the water colour change and some of the new terrain. That medium-brown field is the new " harvested field" the dark green trees are the coniferous only set but the big change really has to be used to be appreciated fully..... the splatter code that allows you to pick the size of the area you want to right click to fill then how much....it's very much like using a spray gun and it allows terrain to be blended in ways it was not practical before. I personally like around 15 in size and a splatter % around 10...( on a larger map......smaller maps require more subtle touch. **I'm** still learning what this can do ) it builds but allows control of the build and I'll post and example next........hand made map will benefit from this greatly but the I aimed this at working with the Venhola map program .... this Goldap map started out that way

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Sorry but the quality of image that I am constrained to use just does not do this justice at all but this is a build up of three kinds of trees and it took about 1 minute

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

This one is about 80% the map generator and 20% my work adding details. The image constraints are very frustrating but the RAR helps a bit

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1488329037

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1488329157

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Looks good! Looking forward to the new patch.

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

If all continues to go well that will happen in a couple of days.

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Very nice maps Don:).

Btw, only thing which have disturbed my eyes long time is those "straight as arrow" type roads. I think they are bit too unrealistic (especially if you see them as vertical located in 200x80 hex maps). Any hope that changing road code could be possible in future patches?

Thanks about redoing terrain icons anyway. They looks fantastic!

Warhero

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

The straight roads run straight or deviate slightly from randoms in code and the randomness is subtle otherwise crazy things happen......also IDK where you live ( actually, I do. somewhere north of Helsinki.. Riihimäki ?) but around here it's not the least bit uncommon to see grids of dead straight roadways so if you don't like them change them.....that's why we added the view map / edit map button

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

I have worked hard at creating terrain in colours that stay true to nature AND "play nice" with the other terrains the game uses so map makers can blend one into another and the new right-click splatter feature really helps with that

Dpn

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Sorry Don I meant only game generated maps, not pre-made maps. I understand if game generate let's say only 5-6 hex straight road but more than 10> is too much IMHO.

Warhero

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Yes, I understand you meant game generated maps. My comments applied to game generated maps. Anyone has the ability to alter the map they are offered when starting a game if they don't like it and as I said the road generation codes already have variables so roads aren't 100% east -west but the variables are required to be subtle otherwise crazy things happen and for that reason WYSIWYG

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Yeah I can accept that. It's more frustrating to see for example sand roads and asphalt roads somehow "combined" into each other about 10 or more hexes;)...

Warhero

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Yes, I know. I don't like it either but that's the roll of the dice you get sometimes...but it's still a rare occurrence and that is why we added the edit feature so if you get a map you like but it has something weird like that you can fix it.

Keep in mind we are getting the map generator to do things far more creative than it never did as SP2

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Maps look great you should add them to the patch, this looks like a big step forward.

Warhero with regards to roads edit them if they are to straight for your liking, occasionaly I will change the path bit more common is clear a bit place some high grass or similar then redo the road to block LOS due to minor elevation changes hinderance effects.

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Ha just realised patch is out sorry

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

The completed Goldap, East Prussia Nov 1944 map..... just a reminder it will only work properly in a winSPww2V10 or winSPMBTv11 and up game. Extract this to your games Maps folder

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Thanks for the map :up:
The changes you have made to the terrain tiles are very good, things seem a lot easier to define especially when zoomed out.

Regarding the random fill tool its good for adding a bit of "colour" to the map but also very effective for modifying generated maps.

Good for placing groups of trees or gaps in dense forests.
Very handy for generating an objective like a little town.
I do a pass of dirt or some such then buildings, sometimes not quite what I want but just hit undo & do again.
Takes minutes to produce something acceptable.

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

I'm still experimenting with it myself. The Goldap map started as a Venhola generated contour map ( I LOVE that program :up::up: and HIGHLY recommend that anyone who wants to try their hand at map making for the game learn to use..it is NOT difficult at all once you understand you need to flood fill the entire map to start with page 2, upper left button clear terrain to see the contours..(and also that you need to click maybe three or four times to make sure all the contours are placed...sometimes the game needs to "build" a hill in steps and those additional clicks ensures that is done ) then I add details based on Google map info and working from a 1940's era contour map of the area as the Town is larger now than it used to be.

Depending on just how big an area you are working on the splatter effect can be adjusted to suit the particular circumstances...an entire 200x160 map or a tiny 20x20 but I find for adding in final random details something like 8 or so for area then maybe 12 for splatter allows you to say...add random bits of red earth through a forest that can be built up with extra clicks here and there that can enhance the map.....same thing with pines.....build a forest using the regular trees then add a swath of pines building more here......less there. Or blending combinations of high grass and the other grass types with a touch of earth or red earth or the forest ground cover terrain creates a visual effect on the map that was possible in the past but would have been highly labour intensive.

I also find adding those details is best done with the map zoomed all the way out to see the "big picture" but afterwards you have to check roads for gaps but setting fill range to 2 and splatter to zero allows you to line a road with trees as trees do not paste over roads....other terrains will, but not trees which is VERY handy .

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

This is a terrain priority list for both games as of March 2017. This is for the serious map markers who may need a reference, beyond practical experience, that show which terrains will dominate and which will be dominated by other terrains higher up the priority list.

So the first ones on the list are the lowest priority and the end of the list is the highest. There are many other terrains not listed ( trees , roads, railway for example because they are handled differently than "earth" terrains.




P10_TER95 - Red Earth
P11_TER81 - Earth
P12_TER63 - Red Sand
P13_TER83 - "Beach" Sand
P14_TER65 - Gray Sand


P17_TER20 - Sand
P18_TER55 - Volcanic Sand

P20_TER70PB - Dry Grass

P22_TER00 - Green Grass
P23_TER87 - Grass_2
P24_TER89 - Grass_3

P26_TER44 - Mud



P30_TER93 - Forest Groundcover


P33_TER36PB- very light snow








P42_TER70PB Winter scrub

P44_TER07 - High Grass


P46_TER14 - Sand Dune Patches
P48_TER85 - Cobblestones-Brick red
P49_TER86 - Cobblestones-Stone grey
P50_TER28 - Pavement Hex


P53_TER10 - Snow

P55_TER37 - Winter Snow Drifts
P56_TER35 - Winter light snow


P59_TER72 - Tall Dry Grass


P62_TER02 - Rough

P64_TER79 - Red Sand Rough
P65_TER18 - Sand Rough

P67_TER67 - Gray Rough


P70_TER12 - Rough Snow


P73_TER16 - Winter Swamp


P76_TER62 - Swamp 2 ( Jungle )


P79_TER05 - Swamp


P82_TER48 - Impassible Ground level


P85_TER17 - Winter Crops


P88_TER42 - Rice Paddy



P92_TER58 - Tilled Fields


P95_TER04PB - Green Crops


P98_TER33 - Yellow Grainfield


P101_TER60 - Mid Winter Fields
P102_TER04PB - Harvested Field
P103_TER74 - Crop Stubble Fields ( winter )





P109_TER78 - Winter Stream Joins









P119_TER76 - Ice
P120_TER22 - Water
P121_TER97 - Deep Water

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

John

Do you find you use the undo/redo feature of the extended map editor much while making maps?

Don

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Not a great deal its very useful when you need it, works well in conjunction with the new fill feature. Also handy if you mess something up, especialy if you have placed a feature like a hill incorrectly. Cut & paste to new position often takes me a couple of tries as I am out by a hex or so on the paste.
Anything involving multiple hexes really.

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

OK Thanks. I need to know from someone actively map making it they think having more than 12 undo/redo's would be useful or not. I have a test version with 36

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

If its simple some one might find it useful but I think its adequate as it is. That many errors would probably be quicker to fill back to clear terrain possibly following contours & redo it.
I would probably make a save & then edit as needed.

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

......not so much if you just added a complicated stream pattern then realised it wasn't in the correct place and every twist and turn was placed individually or if you built up a forest in small amounts with the splatter feature then decided it wasn't quite the way you wanted it.

If anyone wants to "playtest" a 36 undo/redo version, PM me with your email address...just remember it will only work with the CD version

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

So I opened the Goldap map, and man, it's got to be the most painting-like and yet realistic map I've ever seen! The colors, the layout of the terrain, they don't look rigidly artificial, but smoothly organic.

How long to create such beauty?

Cheers!

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

I have no idea.... an hour here, an hour there in-between other work over a few weeks. I didn't keep track but it went through a number of revisions and one was moving the main hill to the south of town using our map tool cut and pasting. Today the Russian border of the Baltic enclave is almost right at the north Map edge ( but that was unplanned ).

To guess I would say 20 hours but that could be way out .......there was lots of 20 minutes here and there tweaking things

Glad you like it.......... if you try a generated battle on it as the Germans be aware the AI for reasons unknown likes to put a Russian force to the north west that gets trapped by the water

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

I see. Maybe smaller maps could be 10 hours or less. I'm planning to create maps for Kaliningrad & northeastern Poland area for a scripted campaign, so this already created Goldap map could come very handy.
How do you crop a map generated from Venhola though?

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

With the Extended map editor. You can decide how big you want it then make a blank map that size and save it.... then generate the Venhola and select the same size area on it and using the Select tool. Then after that has been cut you open the blank map and paste it into the upper left corner.....you can make the cut from the Venhola a bit larger.

The key word here is "experiment"

Re: 2017 release Map work
 

Ah.. so what I've been doing essentially.
I thought I read somebody's post in the Venhola thread we can crop the generated map (like "cropping" an image in photoshop). My mistake.

Thanks anyway!