Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

I call myself SE4 fan, but look! I cant truly play!
OK, i play an organic race. The unexpected payoff is that i am already familiar with my Ice/Carbon-Dioxide race. You know, the rare thing that though is the only actually fitting for my race - fragile, highly intilligent insects.

I used to play SE3 quite a lot. Day and night. you know, the "One more turn" syndrome.
SE4 did a bad initial impression on me and i put it aside playing Quake, Civilization, Starcraft and such. Shame on me!

Now i return to SE4 and find my skills behind an average player here!
Yes, i can take a weak AI. Below the Medium Bonus the AI possesses no threat to me. And its aint no fun. I play on large galaxy, medium # of AIs, High Difficulty, Medium bonus. Neutrals and Normals. Mid-Galaxy (its the only place i know so far when i can find at least some ice/co2 planets).

I cannot win! Just cannot! Perharps i am doing something wrong?
Could someone share his expirience with me?
How you start the game, i mean. What to build, what to research.

Would be best if it was an e-mail, its easier to keep by.

Perharps my problem is that i NEVER use the AI cheating options, such as trading for their colonizing technology (human player would never accept, i hate to exploit the AI weaknesses) etc.?

Any, any help is appreciated. Post here, or better send it by e-mail to trouble11@hotpop.com

Thanks.

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

Can you provide any details? A quick once-over of a typical game?

You've described the game setup, but nothing about how you are currently going about your game.

One thing I try is:
0) Build Construction bases in orbit of your home planet(s). A very quick & easy way to double your spaceyard production in the first 2-4 turns.
1) Build basic missile ships
2) research ship capture
3) spread lots of capture escorts among the basic missile ships
4) research into racial techs or a higher-level weapons tech.
5) steal everthing I can get my hands on: LC's Engines, colonization tech, some cheapo weapons, and some racial techs if lucky.

The boarding parties can keep your military research pumping, while you concentrate on getting infrastructure.
(Using boarding parties to steal Allegiance Subverter tech is fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )
IMO the best infrastructure tech to get is monoliths. Dosen't take too long, and gives you a very nice +100% to resource production.

Since you're an SE3'er, you should be well aware of the critical nature of chokepoints.
What you may not be clued into is the fact that storms and/or asteroid systems are a very effective barrier to ship travel.
Since supplies are based on movement used, not time, traveling through two empty systems can deplete the supplies of a warfleet, forcing them to turn back or turn into a suicide mission.

Also, simulate lots of combats, and do your math http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif to find out which components are better.

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

A little of details ok.
In a typical game:
If i get a breathable planet in the system, i build a colonizer first. If not i build SYB.
I colonize all colonizable planets in the system, and at that time scout the surrounding space with a scout. I build a small transport to transfer the population.
The things i research ASAP are the frigate, ion engine lvl.3 (to keep the maintance smaller, and the construction a bit faster), organic manipulation, organic weapons lvl.1 and military science.
Then i go to destroyers, advance my knowledge in organic weapons, and point defense.
I do not respect the seeker weapons too much, so i use direct fire in the beginning, but given that i research PDC asap this doesnt cause me too much of a trouble.
Also i am a science guy in the game. I tend to have most of my worlds as research centers, and each mining colony beyong the 5 spaces will most likely have at least one or two research centers.
By that time i usualy encounter an enemy and keep my borders safe.

If the game goes longer, i research PDC to lvl.5 as soon as possible and get my organic weapons and armor as high tech as possible. I dont use shields much in the early game.

Thats as much as i can tell. If i meet an enemy race i can usualy hold them back, but rarely can support a full scale attack to wipe them out.
Hm, know what, i might post my latest save game..
Should i?


Now talking about SE3 stuff. Im not that bad out of SE4. I dont know th tech tree completely, but i know enough to keep up in the early game. My major problem is that i cannot go beyond average player.

Thanks for the help though. havent realy tried out the capture stuff. It requies military lvl.2 right?

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

"Thanks for the help though. havent realy tried out the capture stuff. It requies military lvl.2 right?"
Yeah. Once you've opened the tech area, its only 5000 points for the boarding parties 1.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The things i research ASAP are the frigate, ion engine lvl.3 (to keep the maintance smaller, and the construction a bit faster), organic manipulation, organic weapons lvl.1 and military science.<hr></blockquote>I think that this is where your problem lies.
You're combining Organic Armor with small hulls, and that just dosen't work well. As you may or may not know, OA only heals hitpoints once one of the components has been destroyed. If you have only one OA, then you get nothing out of its regen abilities.

Also, by referring to the Damage Factor List (3rd post from the bottom) that I posted long ago, you can see that the Seeking Parasites (SP) are quite powerful at long range. (1.0 vs 0.5 for other organic weapons)
The fact that they always hit is very helpful as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Once your opponents start loading up on PDCs, then you could switch to the PC/HPB guns.

By using Seeker spores early on, you can ditch armor, combat sensors, and even ECM, while using a max-range strategy.

Once you've stolen Cruiser scale vessels, then start heavily using the Organic armor. 1/3rd of your mass is a good starting point, since the more you have, the better it works.

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

A few more things.

Notice how the AI's just love shields and armor, but are pretty random about the weapons they pick?
To counter this use longer range weapons and get those Phased Polaron Beams asap. Even with Organic Manipulation, get those Polaron Beams!
Get the Contra-Terren Engine. Costs more, but not only do you travel faster, you move at speed 4 in combat while the AI's are probably still at speed 3. This alone can be decisive, especially in tactical combat.

I find it hard to lose playing solo and give the computer every possible advantage. The only way he can beat me is to attack me in the first year! If I meet an AI in the second year, I wipe him out. To make it more difficult, I make NO alliances. With the suggestions on this thread, you should have no problems.

Good luck! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

Thanks for the tips.
I do not realy like the PPC, but guess its the only mean to survive early on. I think that this gun is overpowered.

Now about the OA, its a new thing. I always had thought that it regenerates the damae points every turn, doesnt matter was it destroyed or not.

About the weapon pick, actually i prefer to play 3:1 when 3 are direct fire and 1 is the missiles.
I am also trying now how effective is to have several such small fleets - three organic-based direct fire ships (destroyers) and one missile (parasite) which is a frigate. Early on it should be the defense i need.

As for ship capturing, i remember i used that thing alot in SE3, and guess should do so here too.


I'll try the tips from here in my next game, thanks.
But any future comments are welcome.
Take to note that my problem is not survival, no.
I can dig that way that no AI could possibly ever breach my defenses, but thats not the way it works.
I always keep about 3-4 place in 10 players game (6-10 are neutrals), but i hear people complaining MEE comes to early, so i see how poor my gameplay is. Though a side note, for 14 planets today i managed to get ~30k research points, thats not too bad.
I might post my latest savegame tomorrow... its a lucky game, straight from the start i got huge breathable and in two closest sectors two more large.
Another thing that i play combined strategies, once im on high tech im unstoppable. full-tech games against the AI are worthless because i simply have better designs.

Thats my strong point - designing and countering enemy ships. Hell, i realy need a PBEM game..

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Now about the OA, its a new thing. I always had thought that it regenerates the damae points every turn, doesnt matter was it destroyed or not.<hr></blockquote>That's mostly true http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Every turn, each OA piece generates 30 points or so (IIRC, BIDM).

At the end of each turn, if you have any components with the OA ability that are destroyed, and have fewer hitpoints than the healing points stored up so far, then that item is repaired, and the hitpoints subtraced from healing storage.
If you have no Organic Armor breeding stock, then the regeneration dosen't work.

In Classic, losing all copies of any particular component with OA ability means you lose all healing. (Having 0/3 OA2's and 3/5 OA3's on one ship means nothing will ever heal)
In Gold, any component with OA can heal any other component with OA.


I agree that the PPB is quite unbalancing; you should try a mod that fixes that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

Well then, lets check this out.
(launches SE4, sets up a full-tech game).
True...
Well, at least something new is added to my knowledge storage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

As for PPB..
In SE3 its damage was 4, meaning 40. It made it a little more powerful than Meson BLaster, and quite less powerful than APB. Now that it has the almost same power, almost same cost, same size and cheaper to research (only lvl.5 and not lvl.12 like the APB) its the most powerful.. hm, perharps efficient weapon in the game.
Given that is passes through normal shields, its unstoppable in the early game and quite fast to research.
I sent this to MM, but doubtfully that they'll change that in the future Versions of gold/se4.

I'll get some training in the game, and then go for PBEM games. Thanks for the advices.
Anything else that could help me in my quest for galaxy conquest?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

Sure, check this out for PBEM action without all the fuss of handling and executing turns.

Play By Web

It rocks!!! I never play single player games anymore, unless I'm trying to get the feel of a new mod or testing a new strategy out. After playing against humans, AI is just ... unsatisfying anymore. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

I know about the site. I just think it is useless for me to go there untill i reach at least an average level.
See you there soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: Taera Hive Imperium ]</p>

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

I will suggest this: don't attempt full-scale attacks, it isn't needed!

Your first general priority is to secure what you have; pile mines on warp points, have defense fleets ready, have more mines/minelayers ready. Like SJ suggested, be sure to utilize empty systems, the more supplies enemies use to get to you, the fewer they have to hit you with.

After you are fairly secure, create raiding fleets, as this would seem to fit your strategy perfectly. Use your 3:1 fleets, and throw in a few boarding parties to bring back technology/ships. These will work best if you create a small base for the areas your raiders will be working in. A moon will work fine, keep a resupply depot on the planet, and have a SYS stationed there, or build a BSY with it. If you get 3 or 4 of these going, you should do fairly well, and since they would be fairly easy to replace (just have a few mothballed raid fleets with a colonizer and SYS included, or if you're like me and look on mothballing as an unfair human advantage, keep one such fleet in reserve).

While in the "raiding" phase, develop infrastructure and research Troops and Stellar Harnessing. Once you have max tech for troops, your frail little insects can be pilots of high-tech battle tanks, and your vastly stronger foes will wither before you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The design I use is LgTroop,1xCockpit,1xShield,5xLightningRay. Build up a good number of these troops, 500 should be good. Then build a Medium Transport that is protected for battle; either lots of OA, or my method, a Stealth Armor and shields. Also build a "Supply Transport" or two, just a medium-sized hull (LC-BC) filled with the essentials, a few supply storages, and the rest Solar Panels. You can do the math of the most efficient ratio of storage/panels for your fleets, keeping in mind that only the supplies that can fit in the supply ship itself will be generated for the rest of the fleet. Put the transport and supply ships in a fleet with two Raiders, then send them to attack the enemy (it is also a VERY good idea to send a minesweeper and repair ship...). It is suprising what a small, ~10-15 ship fleet can accomplish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . If you use strategic, be sure to set your fleet strategy on one that captures rather than glasses a planet. I posted mine somewhere... Once you capture one planet, turn it into a base; build a BSY, build a resupply depot, launch a few defensive mines, build replacement troops, and defensive ships. Proceed to take every planet in the system, and fortify it like one of your own (be sure to keep some troops on all captured planets to prevent rioting). Once the system is secured, you can begin rebuilding the planets to fit your purposes, and using this one captured system to spawn a few more Invader fleets, ones that won't need the supply ships, since you're right on your enemy's borders.

Then, by the time you have conquered a few AIs with the Raider/Invader attack, you will be closer to full tech, and have the size to send all-out assult fleets (think one Invader fleet for every planet in enemy system, and take all at once) to the remaining enemies. From this point, it can get boring sometimes, as the AI will be no challenge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

After you get a few "practice" games in with this strategy at your current settings, start making things more difficult. Things you can do are make a smaller quadrant, more difficult AI, higher bonus, no neutrals, custom AIs. Then the really fun ones, which can either be enforced for everyone, or just for you (a lot harder if it's just you): Colonize Only Home World Type and Colonize Only Breathable Atmosphere. Also be sure to take all the precautions you would take with a human opponent, to prepare for something like PBW. Humans keep going after one layer of systems is captured/destroyed, while there have been few reports of AIs going further. Humans will constantly redesign their ships to match yours.

Hope that helps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

Wow, thanks!
Thats helps alot. Never actually used the raid strategy, will surely try that out.

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

my opinion only, another idea, in beginning of game, research mines and ftrs. put mines and ftrs on your entry points and over your planets, this frees you up in beginning where escorts should be strong enough for awhile, then, instead of going for frigates right away, frees up research into the higher levels of weapons both seekers and beam type. mines and ftrs cheaper and are produced faster and can play havoc with enemy fleets in begining of the game make for a good defense. then when you get better weapons,then you started with, go into the ship construction. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif but continue to colonize with building mines over new planets before you start facilities to give you a defense, but remember this will change as the game goes on and you'll have to change defensive strategy. wp's in beginning also good for defense. different strokes for different folks,

enjoy the game

just some ideas mac

Re: Shame on me (or help me!!!)
 

Hmm.. Possibly, but.. well, nevermind.
I'll try this out too.

Thanks everyone for those tips, i'll mix them all up in my future games.