Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Howdy; Just finished spending 3 weeks building my Changjin (Chosin) reservoir map and deployed some troops. I entrenched them but then decided I didn't want them to be dug in but I can't figure out how to get rid of the trenches (automatic fox holes, not fortifications) once they are on the map. I read through the manual and looked at the short cut keys but I didn't see one (I tried even Shift E and Control E but nope).

Is there a way to remove foxholes? (BTW - this is in the scenario editor menu)

Here is a picture of the map, 145x100, and I have also done it in summer too. The map was topographical which I laid a hex grid on top of so it is pretty darn accurate. I will be uploading all here once done.

[IMG]<img src="http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/b45d2842eb8c602f3019bdf1d0064f90.jpg"/>[/IMG]

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

You kept a backup of the map, not used in a scenario, right?.

Once troops are laid on a map when creating a scenario you can get side effects. Therefore any complicated map should be saved as a separate map file in case of hiccups. Naturally, when hiccups occur - then its the file you didn't back up it happens with:hurt:!

Try - delete all troops for both sides, change scenario to a meeter, then auto-deploy all for both sides (each will have an HQ left). That may do it. In fact - you may not need to delete the troops, changing battle type and redeploying all with auto-deploy may be sufficient.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

I believe on any, and all, Assault / Defend missions ALL troops of Defender and all Infantry of Attacker are automatically dug-in.

I don't think this is possible to change - (it may be possible to fudge by changing the battle type AFTER deployment).

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

When I want partial dug in I have to set all the units I don't want dug in as reinforcements, change the scenario to an assault, let the non reinforcements dig in, then change the scenario to an advance, then reset everyone to turn 0 (or whatever).

But as Don said, ALWAYS save the map, or just the scenario, before you dig in.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Don't know if you would have to start from scratch again I would think changing the map would mess with things but my only idea is

Save the map (make sure you have objective flags & ID tags off when you do)
Load it in the map editor
Press the Clear Damage button
Wait
Save the map
Import it back into the editor.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

That works IF you don't have a pristine version of the map to fall back on and are willing to re-purchase AND redeploy all your units.....and that is less than fun when you have a large, complicated scenario where everything is the way you want it to be except there are foxholes everywhere.

The problem is if you want an assault scenario you start dug in and that's been like that since SP1 but reviewing the past does not solve this problem so the ONLY way ATM to remove foxholes once they are on the map AND maintain unit deployment is to edit down to level zero EVERY foxhole then put the correct terrain height back in and that will remove them....from sight but it's an illusion because their STATUS will remain DUG IN even if you change the battle type to a meeter so you will have no foxholes showing but your units will report being dug in and that's the way the game will treat them.

What we need is a way to clear dug in status

So if you are happy to redeploy all your units on a cleared map set to non-assault/defend you can fix the problem...if what you would like to do is remove the dug in status as well you are out of luck unless you delete everything and start over but I have put this on the ever-growing "to be investigated" list but at present once your units have dug in status the only way to remove that dug in status is delete the units so one way or the other you need to repurchase and redeploy everything

Sorry for the bad news but to be honest I don't recall this has been brought up as an issue before so I had to go through all the steps I could think of and in the end once you have "dug in" you stay dug in no matter if you trick the map into making you look not dug in.

I would say your best option if you have a lot of units that need to be cleared of dug in status is to accept that they are dug in and move on and we will see if we can find a way to clear that status...but no promises beyond we will discuss it

Don

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it. So the only practical solution was to start over again (I tried just deleting the Chinese from the purchase menu but phantom entrenchments were left on the map even after hitting the 'dig in' without units). I can dig in the USMC and that is fine, as long as I don't dig in the Chinese (attacker) then they will be without trenches.

One thing this map needs, which SP doesn't have, is low bushes/scrub. The Chosin hills are mostly 3 or 4 foot shrubs and undergrowth but the closest in the map editor is tall grass.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

use the new dark scrub mixed with trees and dry grass

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

I don't see such a key (v11.01). Went through the 2017 manual looking at the map editing shortcut keys but don't see anything that would lead to dark scrub. Can you point out the key please?

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Page 2, fourth button down on the right it will report " add short grass to hex(T)" when you hover the pointer over the button. When you click on the button you are given the option "Press 1 for regular grass, 2 for scrub grass"

BUT

from the game quide write up for WinSPMBT version 11.01 Upgrade patch

Info on new terrains added for 2017

There is a new "scrub grass" ground and hills set in dark brown tones for ground and hill levels that would be useful on maps between November and March but also as an accent on any map type. In the map editor this can be accessed from the "add short grass" button which is on page 2 of the editor to the right of the add trench button. You will be prompted to " Press 1 for regular grass, 2 for scrub grass "


There is a new bare field ground and hills set that represents either a freshly planted field or a freshly harvested one. These are also handy as a base for any orchard type. In the map editor this can be accessed from the green crop button. You will be prompted "Press 1 for Crops, 2 for Tilled "


There is a new "light snow" ground and hills set that will show up in the game in place of the old "winter grass" which is now called " very light snow". The new "light snow" is used by the game as a base tile over which winter trees are placed. It can be accessed only on winter maps from the button on page one directly under trees. You will be prompted "Press 1 for light snow, 2 for very light snow"


There are now pure coniferous sets for summer and winter and those will be auto-generated on maps. These represent "old growth" pine forests and have additional movement and sighting restrictions above regular mixed forests. This can be accessed from the Trees button and you will be prompted "Press 1 for mixed Trees, 2 for Pines "


There are also new vineyards and coconut plantations/ groves for use in map making and these are also placed in small amounts on game generated maps. In the map editor this can be accessed from the Orchards button and you will be prompted "Press 1 for orchard, 2 for Vineyard, 3 for Coconut Grove "


Deep water has been added ( ground level only naturally ). It is a very subtle change as it had to be . The water animation palette is fixed and not very big which limited my options and after two failed experiments I settled on what we have now as a compromise but as I said....it's subtle but sometimes subtle is best. The game palette was tweaked a bit to brighten up water....it's a bit more " Mediterranean" or "South Pacific" blue now.........a little less " dreary November " grey-blue.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Thanks for the reply. I had stumbled across that key both in the manual and in the game but scrub grass to me is short stubble grass, which sort of works and I made a map using it and some pine trees but it does not simulate bushes. I guess I will just include all 3 versions (plain snow map, summer map, and winter with scrub and trees) so players can choose their flavour.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Our "scrub grass" represent dry dead tall(ish) heavy weeds and light underbrush and is coded similarly to summer tall grass and is more of an accent terrain

Don

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

When I added it to the map all height increased by 1; a tree adds 2 if I remember correctly? If so then I guess it is doing the job of a bush as I would think a bush would be +1 to terrain height.

Thanks once again.

Need help, map error
 

The map I created is facing in the wrong direction for retreating unit purposes. The Chinese are attacking from the north to the south, but when they retreat they are running across the front of the Marine positions to the right; resulting in squads being wiped out post haste.

I changed the rally hexes but that only affects their end of turn routing route, during the game they are ignoring the rally hex. Therefore the only other option is to spin the map 90 degrees so north now faces to the left (west) and south faces to the east (right). I tried using the editor copy map and past function but there is no way to spin the map that I know of.

Is there a way to spin the map? If not, is there a way to stop the Chinese from running across, or through, the Marine lines when they are routed? They need to run north and the Marines south (although Marines don't run).

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Scenarios should not be made top-bottom of the map, since the game is designed for one player on the left, the other on the right.

The top of the map is not "North" unless you decide it to be. North could be the bottom, left or right to suit your scenario.

There is no way to spin the map. The rally hex is for the initial retreat direction - once reached and still retreating it'll head for the appropriate side for the force which is either left or right map edge.

In addition, off-map arty comes from the players side which is again is either left or right edge.

You'll need to redo the scenario (and map) with north at the Left or Right side of the screen as suits best.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

Thanks for the reply, and I understand my mistake. The map cannot be remade, not spending another 3 weeks on it.

This statement "The rally hex is for the initial retreat direction" isn't holding true, I set the rally hex for each formation behind their deployment position, the units do not move backwards past where they were deployed to the rally hex, but left or right. So if the rally hex in game play (before end turn is selected) is suppose to make the units run towards it, it doesn't work. I can upload saved files if needed.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

The rally hex wont work for the initial run from a hex where they recieved a casualty and so pulled back - that is always to what the unit thinks is safer (usually towards their sides map edge).

Also - if the rally hex is further away from the unit than its own map edge, it will tend to go there.

So, the rally hex is really a hint to the unit that its to go toward there - but if it thinks the map edge it should go to is nearer, it will go there. Also - it will sometimes go for the unit command element if it is close. And sometimes it'll initially go towards the enemy - if for example the path to the rear map edge is quicker that way (avoiding woods etc). Sometimes it will just sit still and cower in place, if it is for example in a cover hex (rough say).

Retreat and rally is complex, and the rally hex is not a "global override", just a suggestion the scenario designer puts there that it may or may not heed.

Running away
 

<img src="http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/82b91fb54be51b25d5de9c11fde32685.jpg"/



Thanks for the quick reply. That is what Walrus and I thought, that the rally hex only applies to end turn. Anyway in reference to what you said, the above picture shows the USMC lines (blue), Chinese (red), rally hex for that formation (yellow circle) and the direction that they rout when under fire (green arrow). The HQ for each company is behind the lines so in this case those nasty Chinese have a mind of their own and are ignoring the game rules. The ignore the rally hex that is maybe 8 hexes from them, they ignore their HQ which is maybe 5 hexes from them, and they ignore the nearest map edge being either top or left side and are running off to the right. The USMC rally hex is set a Yudam-ni but they are running to the left while they are deployed as right.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

If you swap player 1 & 2 wont the Chinese at least go left and the USMC right?

not perfect but closer...

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

As Scorpio said.

Check your scenario and make sure the forces sides are properly set for your scenario - you may have them reversed or set to default (which may be the opposite of what you want as well).

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

In addition - look at what your green arrow is pointing to. That's a road, and retreating elements will tend to find the shortest path to their own baseline in MP terms. Roads are very quick routes, so they may well decide that is the best way home. Especially if the hills behind are rough or deep snow etc.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

I am going to fix the problem by moving the USMC units from the north ridge (right) to the SW ridge; the scenario will be 70% historical and upon testing the unit ran the correct way in this configuration.

There are forces on the north ridge too (map right), I just didn't draw them in.

The road thing doesn't work either, because in the new test with all the Chinese on the left and USMC on right the Chinese are ignoring the road (their deployment stayed same) and are moving to map left.

<img src="http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/babe034d57f9dba9aba5b412d52e1656.jpg"/>

The black arrows show where the USMC/Chinese were and where they will be for the new fight. The light blue circle was the USMC rally hex but they ignored it.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

I think I'll have to investigate the rally hex code and see if something later has overridden it.

But the fact remains - scenarios in SP must be laid out with one side having the left and the other the right map edge as home base - retreaters can only leave over the home baseline, so go for that eventually, even with rally points set.

Re: Delete entrenchments from scenario
 

I just hope all works well now. If it does then I will continue on building my Korea 1950 scenarios.

Thanks all for your help and feedback

*I will let you know if in the new left/right version if they run to the map edge or toward the rally hex. I will hope they run toward where the HQ tells them the rally point is otherwise there isn't much sense in setting it if it just gets ignored.*