An Observation
 

Burning vehicles block LOS but burning trees do not. Strikes me as odd.

Re: An Observation
 

I have been meaning to look at the fire and/or smoke values for wrecks for a while - may get round to it for next year's update.

Yep - I think wrecks block LOS rather too much. Be nice to see what others think about it, so feel free to chip in.

Re: An Observation
 

May be better for wrecks to have a lower density, so that 2 or more block LOS.

I find that I have to relocate my ATGs too fast after taking out the lead elements, due to their LOS heavily hindered by the wrecks.

Re: An Observation
 

My thought is that a burning tank full of oil, fuel, rubber, ammo, etc will burn much hotter and with thicker smoke than a couple of trees that have caught fire.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...rning_tank.jpg
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/<a hr...jpg&quot;></a>

Re: An Observation
 

I think that I would be inclined to leave it as it is. The flames and smoke dissipate after a while in any case.

Re: An Observation
 

Perhaps a bit of randomness would be nice.
Agree as in the picture above tanks can burn violently & sometimes for hours.
On the other hand 3 burning tanks in adjacent hexes would not I suspect in most weather conditions completely block LOS over that 150m area.
Possibly best decided at this scale on should 1 or 2 burning vehicles block LOS down a city road or bridge hex.

Re: An Observation
 

I can say that one item concerning a burning tank is that nobody wants to be close to one while it brews up. While one tank may not clear out a full hex, if it was possible code wise, a burning tank should do something akin to reducing the number of units that can be in the hex while it burns or cause units to move/rout out of the hex. A burning tank in a narrow street would block movement as well as LOS.

Re: An Observation
 

Destroyed vehicles already cause a bit of suppression to all units from their side that are near by.

While this effect may not be very noticeable for a couple of wrecks, try blowing up dozens of vehicles in a narrow area and even early war German tankers may end up retreating after driving to the area.

(My experiences about blowing up large amounts of early war German tanks in narrow areas are based on the Ruin Rommel scenario that was included in the latest release. Great fun to play, though quite time consuming.)

Re: An Observation
 

The suppression of wrecks is very noticeable. I've gone into a number of battles against Soviet, and only did the minimum of destroying all their light and fast armour. Their KVs rout typically when approaching the wrecks.

Good thing as well, I barely have anything to stop their heavies.

Re: An Observation
 

Tanks sometimes don't catch fire at all and so wouldn't block LOS at all and sometimes take an hour or so to brew up.

Re: An Observation
 

The way I see it, burning tanks should have the potential to cause more LOS problems and the more smoke they produce should cause any units in the same hex to retreat.

Re: An Observation
 

Not all destroyed AFVs burnt. I saw a percentage somewhere, but I don't recall where. IIRC it was far below 50%. There should IMHO be a lesser chance of wrecks generating smoke than now.

Re: An Observation
 

In P.M. Knights book, crusader tank a technical history Lieutenant-General Martel is quoted as saying this
We have been worried by the number of tanks that have got on fire after being hit by the enemy in battle...as he had eleven of his Mark IV crusaders burning at the same time...They all went up in a sheet of flame....Incidentally they say that on the whole the Germans (tanks) very seldom burn.
The cause is explained later
An examination of the interior of German A.F.V.s reveals that the ammunition of their main armament, whether it be 50mm of 75mm calibre, is very much better stowed than is our own. All rounds of this nature are either in small metal lockers or in bins let into the floor and rounds are hidden in these bins up to the rim.
Our 2 pr. amn on the other hand is stowed in a rack all round the fighting compartment...It is clear that an A.P.H.E. shell bursting inside the fighting compartment of any of our AFVs will have all the 2 pr. cartridge cases fully exposed to its fragments.
They did live firing trials and found that this was correct and the likely cause of so many British fires and so few German fires.
They also comment that the german tanks fuel tank being very low, below the engine and the British AFV's placement of the fuel tank high in the engine compartment and with a high profile also made it more likely for British tanks to catch fire.

I think also maybe that Stuart and some Sherman tanks burnt easily as their Aircraft type engines used highly flamable high octane aircraft type fuel? instead of regular petrol. Russian diesel fuel (t34) is less flamable than ordinary petrol.

So maybe this type of information could be used to adjust the vehicles Survival rating and then the chance of catching fire can be related to the Survival rating?

Re: An Observation
 

I put some extra thought on this matter recently, I came to the conclusion that the way it is now isn't to bad. In-fact, for what its worth, I think its pretty good, because any units in the vicinity will already take suppression and far as line of sight goes, I think it's based on graphics and not reality. Line of sight could be improved though, because sometimes I will move an obsolete tank to a certain hex hoping it will be destroyed, just so it will block the enemy's line of sight. Not at all realistic. It's like army ants, they will do any thing to win.