Op Fire Filters
 

So, I opened Gran1pa's latest scenario, Red: Killing Grounds, and proceeded to set Op Fire filters as is my custom. In particular setting for MBTs and ATGM units, but I filtered infantry too, although most infantry units were in urban area.

To my shock, none of my MBTs or ATGMs responded with a shot. Within a short order, the Russian armor horde had breached my line of defense.

Disenchanted, I opened Editor and built a quick test composed of a UK MBT platoon, supported by two SP-ATGM units and a squad of infantry ATGM. Battle date: 06/1984, UK vs Russia. Did not the Soviet Union disintegrate in 1991 into the several republics with a reconstituted Russia? If so, the game should display the Soviet flag for the year 1984.

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After five turns the Russians breached the ATGMs unscathed. The Armor engagement setting was 20 hex for both MBTs and ATGMs.


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In the subsequent case, I lifted all Op Fire filters and the result was startling.

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I would have expected similar results with the Op Fire settings on especially considering the Russian side was assaulting.

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Re: Op Fire Filters
 

I am only going to comment on this one aspect...Opfire filters are Andys area but the game DOES display the Soviet flag for the year 1984.....


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1498621290



and that's the way they are displayed in my test and your save so IDK what exactly you are suggesting is wrong in regards to flags


Don

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

As the young folk say, "My bad."
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Re: Op Fire Filters
 

Regarding flags, the Russian or USSR flags are showing correctly on my machine.

But the Op Fire problem, it is confirmed, at least on my end here.

OpFire Filtered units won't fire at all, either outside or inside the set range (not the mere Y-range setting, but the real OpFire filter). This happens whether the overwatch hex is active or not. In my experiment, only the AFV Filter is turned ON, I don't know about other targets e.g Infantry. Once the Filter is removed, the units fire as normally (obviously without any filter now).

Maan, this is quite a problem Don. That's why I took the care to experiment it myself. I'm sorry I haven't played either games for quite some time now since the latest update, so I don't know of other bugs that may surface.

(speaking of filters, turns out my unfiltered kretek cigarettes have run out. i gotta go outside and buy some. anyone?)

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

I'll check the opfire filters later as I am out today, but the first question would be - what armour values are set? - if too high, then they wont fire e.g. if set at 99 steel, and the targets are 20 steel front.

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

You may recall my thread on the Israeli assault boats, where a Milan III team shot a missile at first a rubber raft then an assault boat with armor rating at 1.

Here, in these series of tests, let me say I am a CD user, and I did not set any armor values whatsoever.

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Re: Op Fire Filters
 

Been away for a week but my op filter worked perfectly

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

It was only the "Armor Range" that I set, not Armor values. Set at 3 hexes.

Cheers!

UPDATE:
If I deliberately set the Armor Value, e.g Max at 87 and Min at 1 (or even at 0, so long as Max is defined), then OpFire Filter works perfectly as it should. Problem occurs only when you set the Armor Range, but leaves Armor Value at 0 (either deliberately or automatically let it at 0 unattended).

OpFire Filter's range against Infantry also works as it should, even if I don't set the Armor Values.

On a side note, the simple Y-key range filter works as it should (i.e you're not using the dedicated OpFire filter dialogue).

In conclusion, I believe this is not a problem, since one obviously should at least define BOTH the "Armor Range" and "Armor Value", to tell OpFire filter to work properly against armors (against infantry types it is normal all along as stated above).

UPDATE: When an AFV fires its main gun AGAINST an OpFire-Filtered target, this OpFire filter's max Range will be automatically changed to reach that firing unit. For example, an American M1A2 whose OpFire filter has been set as 3 hex, gets fired by a Russian T-90A using its main gun at a range of 10 hexes, the Abram's 3 hex limit will be automatically raised into 10 hex, to meet that Russian tank. If it's not a main gun that fires, the hex limit won't change, as it normally should.

In conclusion, I still think it's not a problem, as the M1A2 obviously needs to defend itself when under clear and present danger (Russian main gun), thus OpFire range is increased so it can have its own OpFire agains that T-90A.

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

DRG EDIT: I have made bold the very important issue of setting in and max armour values and made this a sticky for the next time this "issue" comes up.


The op-fire filter requires you to set min and max armour values - otherwise it has nothing to filer on. This is unlike the "Y" key function which is a range-only filter.

All filtering in the game gets switched off (set to range +1 of the firer IIRC for the plain Y function) when the unit gets fired upon by some enemy, in order to allow it to reply to the enemy unit with reverse opfire if it survived the shot. This is SP 101, and has been since SP1 (Or maybe 2?) - whenever the "Y" key feature arrived anyway.

It also applies in reverse if you manually fire at an enemy unit, so that it is able to fire on it without you having to set filters- otherwise the unit would refuse to fire, resulting in confused end users.

So you may need to reset filtering if those circumstances occur, and you wish the unit to revert to being "choosy" once more when the threat is dealt with.

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

I follow you so far. But, I am telling you...I do not recall ever setting Armor values. But, then again, maybe I should tell the doc next time to check for some kinda dementia.

I remember we had this similar conversation with my Israeli Assault Boats issue. And, as suggested I set armor min/max values, but the Milan III team still let loose on an assault boat with only 1 armor rating.

I'll go over my settings in my ATGM test and report back.

Thanks
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Re: Op Fire Filters
 

If you have not been setting armour values then you have not been using this correctly....this bit of code is all Andys work and if he says you need to set min and max armour values then you need to set min and max armour values

Don

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

I set op fire armor values as follows:
Armor Max 225
Armor Min 6
Armor Rng 35

Worked like a charm, as expected.

Thanks

Now, back to my Israeli assault boat issue.

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Re: Op Fire Filters
 

I have hit a roadblock setting opfire filters for a platoon of Iraqi T-62M's. I set the filters at armor front max at 16, armor front min at 12, and armor engagement range at 10. The T-62Ms are controlled by the AI. A cavalry scout detachment of M3A2s are approaching the T-62Ms from over 30 hex. Visibility is set at 76. The T-62Ms light up the CSVs from a distance of 22 hex. This is not what I expected.

Reducing visibility to 10, the T-62Ms engage the CSVs from 22 hex away. Again, not the expectation.

I further reduced Searching and Hitting in Preferences to 30%, with the T-62Ms destroying the CSVs from 22 hex away.

Finally, I crept the CSVs toward the T-62Ms at 4mph until I was within 10 hex of their position with filters, seraching and hitting set as above. Unfortunately, the CSVs suffered tank fire at 22 hex when searching and hitting was reset to 100%, although their movement was limited to 4 mph.

The object of these tests is to use a visibility at 76 (to make use of dust trails) while reducing the armor engagement range of the T-62Ms to no more than 10 hex, simulating reduced visibility of the tank crews.

The armor values of the CSVs are: Front Max 15, Front Min 12.

I am at my wits end.

Solutions?
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Re: Op Fire Filters
 

There is a setting for missile carrying targets as far as I recollect. The M3 is an ATGM carrier AFAIR so is engaged at the ATG/ATGM range - so did you remember to set that value down to your new range as well?.

Re: Op Fire Filters
 

I had not remembered this setting. However, I have found from the Game Guide (GG) the following:

The default Experience setting for the T-62M is 54. So, following the clue from the GG, I reduced Experience by half until I reached 4, a value where I bounded the M3A2s at 7 mph until within 11 hex of the T-62Ms. Thereafter, the CSVs bounded at 2 mph to within 50m. I repeated this iteration three times with similar results.

I can say, since contact was imminent, I kept the speed of the CSVs at 7 mph or less. In tests where I moved the lead CSV by more than 7 mph say near the max speed of the M3A2, the CSV received accurate tank fire from the T-62Ms often resulting in a kill by the T-62Ms.

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