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RC4 October 28th, 2017 12:54 PM

Portugal OOB73
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is Portuguese OOB, I hope you enjoy it
Attachment 14996
Thanks

MODERATOR EDIT

Quote:


"This mod contains highly altered or additional files that may or will cause interference with the master game files and it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that this mod be installed and played ONLY in a separate copy of the game and NOT run from the master game"
This OOB is NOT usable by the AI as an opponent

Warhero October 30th, 2017 08:24 AM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Modified OOB I suppose? Any different than default OOB?

RC4 October 30th, 2017 05:43 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Yes, I am an exNCO, I served 5 years. All the OOB is working well. You can try it to see the many changes.
Thanks

RC4 October 30th, 2017 05:45 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
I can read Portuguese, Spanish, French and English, so I am going to help with OOB of Paraguay, Uruguay, Equador and Pakistan.
Thanks

DRG October 30th, 2017 06:57 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
**I** need to know is what you did so a list of changes would be helpful to me and anyone else who might be interested and that goes for any others you plan to work on. OOB work can be a minefield.

YOU may think "all the OOB is working well" but I ( and anyone else ) have no idea what you may have moved or changed or removed and all of that impacts scenarios and campaigns if that OOB is used in any. Did you check it with MOBHacks check utilities?

I am happy to see OOB's like those improved but I need to know what's been done

Don

DRG October 30th, 2017 07:13 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
1 Attachment(s)
OK I looked at it and I have added the disclaimer to your first post that you should have included when you posted this and I have moved it to the MODS forum

It may be complete, it may be perfect IDK but you have made a fundamental error..... you obviously do not know that when the AI buys a nation as an opponent it picks formations from a picklist and that picklist DEPENDS on the formations it buys to be the same as the picklist was set up to read

Heres what you did for the first 34 formations

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1509404938

You have changed every formation location which is fine if it's just YOU using it and you never expect the AI to act as an opponent but WE have to so this is worthless as an integrated into the whole game OOB and other players should have been warned about that

But not only that you have done it in Portuguese...we do have some OOB's in winSPWW2 in native languages but not in MBT so that alone makes it unusable I'm sorry to say

You obviously have put a lot of time and effort into it but a few questions on the forums about what you planned to do before starting would have made it more than just a limited curiosity.

Don

RC4 October 31st, 2017 05:55 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Thanks DRG, I will get back to work.

RC4 November 18th, 2017 04:59 AM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
1 Attachment(s)
I DRG, can you look at it and give me some feed back

DRG November 18th, 2017 04:59 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
I'm right in the middle of a big project ATM so it may take a few days but if you used the same formation structure as the original it will go a long way to be usable in the game.

I had a VERY quick look at it and I like what I see but the deep testing takes time and experimentation

You worked quickly to turn this around....I'm impressed. I'll get back to you when I have the time to give it my full attention. If I haven't got back to you by mid week remind me

Don

DRG November 23rd, 2017 04:21 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
........I haven't forgotten about you but I'm deep into another project ATM but I hope to have a look at this on the weekend. To really do the checks I need to do will take a couple hours uninterrupted and that's not going to happen for a few days

RC4 November 23rd, 2017 05:11 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
OK thanks

DRG November 25th, 2017 12:59 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
João

OK..... I looked at it...... a lot

Here's the good news

It's a very nicely done OOB with only very minor terminology issues ( 'hey' for 'hvy' , Pltatoon for platoon in a couple of places for example but those are minor editing details) and a photo or two I would change. You've done a very nice job filling in details we couldn't when this was first written. I'm very impressed with it overall.

But now the bad news...

You have done a better job organizing the formations than the first effort you posted and the new ones are obviously more fine-tuned to dates than our original was but the master control picklist for each nation in the game has over 140 possible choices that make up a pick for any given time represented by the game.

These are the variables that make up a picklist for the AI to use.

min nr of rifle cos
Leg Rifle Co 1 ID (MANDATORY)
Leg Rifle Co 2 ID
Leg Rifle Co 2 min points
Leg Rifle Co 2 chance
leg rifle Co 3 ID
leg Rifle Co 3 min pts
leg rifle Co 3 chance
leg rifle plt ID (MANDATORY)
mech rifle co 1 ID
mech rifle co 2 ID
mech rifle co 2 min pts
mech rifle co 2 chance
mech rifle co 3 ID
mech rifle co 3 min pts
mech rifle co 3 chance
mech rifle plt ID (MANDATORY)
fortification ID (MANDATORY)
leg eng plt ID (MANDATORY)
eng tank plt 1 ID
eng tank plt 2 ID
max eng tank plts
transport helo plt ID
transport hel co ID
transport helo co minpts
transport helo chance
max transport helo buy
inf SAM or AAMG sect ID
AAA (guns) plt ID
SP AAA section ID
SP AAA Platoon ID
SP SAM Section ID
SP SAM Platoon ID
AREA AA battery ID (LR SAM)
Inf AT section ID
Inf ATGM Section ID
basic off map art chance
off map light battery
of map light bn ID
min points to buy light arty bn
off map med bty ID
off map med bn Id
min points for med bn
off map heavy bty ID
off map heavy bn ID
min remain to buy heavy bn
off map rocket bty ID
off map rocket bn ID
min points to buy off map rkt bn
off map tube minelet bty id
min points to buy tube art mine bty
off map rocket minelet bty ID
min points to buy rocket mines
basic chance for mine bty purchase
off map bomblet only bty (eg MLRS)
min points to buy AT bomblet bty
basic chance to buy AT bomblet bty
ID of first naval art bty
number of continuous naval btys
Tank section (for low poiits) nr 1
min points to buy a tank 1 section
tank section 2 ID
min points remain to buy t sect 2
%age chance to buy 2 instead of 1
Tank platoon 1 ID
min points required to buy tp 1
tank platoon nr 2 ID
minimum remaining points to buy TP nr 2
%age chance to buy TP Nr 2
ptank platoon 3 ID
min points remain to buy a TP 3
%age chance of buying TP nr 3
tank company nr 1 ID
min remaining points to buy a T co 1
chance of buying a tank co 1 if points adequate
tank co 2 ID
points needed to buy a Tank Co 2
chance of buying a tank co 2 instead of TC 1
tank co 3 ID
tank co 3 points minimum to buy
tank co 3 chance of replacing previous tank cos
SP TD (gun or ATGM) small unit ID
alternate SP TD section ID
%age chance of alternate replacing td sec 1
SP TD battery ID
minimum points to buy SP TD battery
Chance of buying battery if points avail
inf heavy ATGM sec (TOW etc) section ID
standard 2 or 3 barge carriers - MANDATORY
optional large barge cariers lump (4 or 5 say)
mortar section ID (MANDATORY)
Mortar bty or plt ID
heavy mortar sect ID
heavy mortar bty/plt ID
SP Mortars section ID
SP Mortars Plt ID
SP heavy mortars sect ID
SP heavy Mortars plt/bty ID
Towed guns plt ID
towed Guns bty ID
SPA platoon ID
SPA points req to buy a plt
Alternate SPA plt ID
Chance of alt replacing SPA Plt 1
SPA battery nr 1 ID
min points required to buy an SPA bty
Alternate SPA bty ID
Chance of this replacing nr 1
Foot (or only) FO team ID
vehicle or alt FOO ID
chance of a FOO being bought
basic planes ID
attack helicpters section
wild weasel (with ARM) - TBD (new type)
If planes bought, chance of replace with helo
MG or AGL section 1 ID
Alternate (50%) MG or AGL section
Light tank or light support ID 1
Light tank or light support ID 2
Light tank or light support ID 3
Light tank or light support ID 4 (pref for foot)
Points needed to buy light tank plt
Chance of buying a LT tank plt
Chance of this replacing nr1
chance of this replacing nr 1
chance of this replacing nr 1 (is more likely if foot)
max number of lt tank plts bought
Basic armour car section ID
Alternate light armour recce section ID
Min remaining points to buy armour recce section
Armour recce larger lump nr 1
Armour recce larger lump nr 2
Points needed to buy arm recon co
leg recce (scouts) section ID
A cheap jeep or second leg scout sect
unused
unused
unused
unused
max number of recce units allowed
small defensive AT unit
larger defensive AT type unit
Sniper Unit ID
Naval support unit 1
Naval landing support alt unit
flame tanks section ID



No picklist uses them all but all use them in different combinations and the combinations the game chooses change ( or evolve might be a better word ) over the 79 years between 1946 - 2025 the game covers those years are grouped by how ALL the 140+ categories evolve. The picklist we have now for Portugal fits into 8 segments

46-55 56-65 66-70 71-78 79-89 90-95 96-99 100-120

other nations have both less and more ......USMC has 100 ( !! )

in the original OOB a Portuguese infantry co is bought at least once per segment....and the original infantry co bought for each of those segments was 006. In your OOB Formation 006 only runs to 12/52 and then four more are introduced..... that breaks the picklist. After the end of 1952 the AI has nothing to use for an infantry co so the pick-lists for infantry alone would need to be redone but not just redone.. redone and expanded as NONE of the other infantry coys match the existing picklist breakpoints... and platoons were bought for all pick lists from the same formation from 1946-2015.....you used 5 and that may be more accurate it also breaks the picklist change.....and that's just infantry....... for tank platoons we used two formations and with your OOB I could do it with three but none of the breakpoints match the existing ones which means a new picklist has to be created and set up in the master control file.....tank coys on the other hand go from 1 that we used to 4 that you have split them down to and the plt break points don't always match the coy break points so more pick lists have to be added to get everything working for the AI....and the tank formation changes don't match the infantry so at the very least the number of time segment picklist for Portugal would double or more likely triple.. and likely more than that as each of the lines of possible picks has to match with the breakpoints in the OOB so IF ( this is just and example ) tank coys change at different time than engineering ones did a new one would have to be introduced to cover the change

.........and then there are the mortars to consider. The original OOB is set up to use formation 14 for the Mortar Platoon right across..... HAPPILY so do you for both platoons and sections ( 31)

then arty

off map light battery we use 49......you use 49

of map light bn ID we use 55 you use 55

off map med bty ID and off map med bn Id we us 50 and 56 for 105 cal arty....you turned them into ON MAP Hvy mortars

off map heavy bty ID and off map heavy bn ID for the 150-155mm cal arty we us 51 and 57 and you use the same

There is SOME glimmer of hope but it took 2 hours just to assemble this and I only hit the most important things . EVERY section needs to be checked for breaks and marked then find the common breakpoints then decide how many more picklists need to be inserted among the existing ones and if the existing ones have to be split into two or three or more individual segments.........OR I go the "easy" route and place "AI only" formations where the picklist we have not wants to find them re-nationalized so they don't show up for player picks in the game but the AI sees and used them and then anyone playing as human would see what you built offered when buying troops and equipment and anyone using Portugal as an opponent gets a more "generic" mix of units ( and in 99% of the cases is none the wiser ) and I'm thinking that ***IF*** I DO THIS that would be the most likely option chosen because juggling all those other variables and making them all fit perfectly is NOT FUN ( ask Suhiir........) adding a few AI formations is less likely to cause my head to explode....:shock:

So I *MAY* use this......it IS more complete and detailed than the existing master but I'm not committing to that just that I am going to look at this more closely over the next couple of months.

........and there is NO POINT in having formation 59 AND 60...they are both the same thing with the same number of units...60 was the original SAM formation so your 60 should run from 59's start date to 2025 (edit...closer inspection showed why you did it that way..... )

Don

DRG November 26th, 2017 04:20 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
This all came to a crashing halt when I discovered you had changed the CMG we used on the V200 Chaimite but instead of renaming the one in the existing slot you built a new weapon 79 7.62 HK21 CMG then you changed the existing 7.62mm L37 CMG.. that could easily have been simply renamed 7.62 HK21 CMG as it was not being used by anything else then you placed a 120mm mortar where the old 7.62mm L37 CMG used to be.

AND you replaced the 7.62mm L37 TMG in weapons slot 244 with an 81mm mortar

THAT is OOB work "Heresy"

At that point I gave up...... you cannot do things like that especially as it would have been DEAD SIMPLE to rename the old 7.62mm L37 CMG to 7.62 HK21 CMG and used slot 79 for your new 120mm Tampel St.....so what you did was put 120mm mortars in place of 7.62 CMG's for any scenario or save game that used the V-200 Chaimite and there **MAY** be none used at all but I cannot take the chance on any more surprises and I have little interest in doing a full side by side comparison of the two OOB's....you built a very nice OOB for anyone who just wants to play as Portugal but when you start juggling existing weapons around you make it unusable integrated into the game.

DRG November 26th, 2017 09:03 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Further testing showed there is no solution to changed weapons in existing save games and scenarios... change a MG to a mortar in the weapons list and the mortar is what that unit will use if it's in a save game or sceanrio.....it's been awhile since I actually tested that.

RC4 November 27th, 2017 04:07 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
OK Thanks, I will post information here and you will make the changes yourself. Thats the right way!
Thanks again!

DRG November 27th, 2017 04:41 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
I've already found some units / formations in yours we didn't have and I noticed we had some units you had removed but I haven't gone through them line by line

RC4 November 28th, 2017 05:57 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Tanks
Valentine MkII, UK 43 to 12/59, used in Light Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
Centauro MkI, UK 45 to 12/59, used in Heavy Tank Sqns
M47, US 1/53 to 9/84, used in Tank Sqns, new ammo after 6/76
M4A1CAN VVSS, Canada 1/54 to 12/73, used in M4 Tank Sqns
M4A1E8-76W HVSS, US 1/54 to 12/73, used in M4 Tank Sqns
M4A3E8-105 HVSS, US 1/54 to 12/73, used in M4 Tank Sqns
M24, US 1/55 to 12/84, used in Armoured Recon Sqns
M5A1CAN, Canada 3/57 to 12/73, used in Armoured Recon Sqns
M48A2GA2, Germany 6/76 to 12/101, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
M48A5, US 1/84 to 12/101, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
M60A3TTS, US 1/93 to 12/125, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
Leopard 2A6NL, Netherlands 10/108 to 12/125, used in Tank Sqns and Armoured Recon Sqns
Engineer Tanks
M4A3E8-76W VVSS, US 1/53 to 12/73, used in Engineer Assault Units
M728, US 1/97 to 12/125, used in Engineer Assault Units
ARVs
M74, US 1/54 to 9/84, used in Tank Sqns
M88A1, Germany & US 1/78 to 12/125, used in Tank Sqns
SP Guns
Sexton MkII, Canada 1/54 to 12/80
M109A2, US 1/81 to 12/101
M109A5, US 1/102 to 12/125
Armoured Cars
Humber MkIV, UK 43 to 12/77
Fox CAN MkI, Canada 1/57 to 12/73
Panhard EBR75, France 1/59 to 9/84
Panhard AML60, France & South Africa 1/65 to 12/98
Eland MkIV, South Africa 1/72 to 5/76
Ferret MkII, UK 1/80 to 7/92
Saladin MkII, UK 12/81 to 11/93
Commando V150, US 1/89 to 12/125

RC4 November 28th, 2017 06:11 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
We never had M41A1 Bulldog, Cromwell, M48A2 or simple M60A3.
We never had M7 Priest, M52 and the Pandur 120mm was never introduced
We never had M48A3 or A5 roller, M60A3 Plough or Leo2A6 Dozer or Mine-roller

DRG November 28th, 2017 07:26 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
I've added this to the work list.


Are the leader names OK?

RC4 November 29th, 2017 04:57 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Yes they are OK

RC4 December 1st, 2017 06:37 AM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
In 1946 we had 4 Infantry Divisions and equipment to mobilise 6 more from several garrison and independent formations. 3 of those Divisions were equipped by the British in 1943 with Radios and trucks and other weapons, in 1946 equipment arrived to the fourth one.
There were 4 Tank Groups (Battalions), in 2 Cavalry Regiments, each had a Heavy Sqn (10 Centauro) (HQ 2 tanks + 2 Troops of 4 tanks each) (in reality we used 5 Centauro in each Troop) and a Light Sqn (17 Valentine) (HQ 2 tanks + 3 Troops of 5 tanks each), we had 50 Centauro and 78 Valentine. Reconnaissance was performed by Humber Recon Sqns. Each had 3 Troops of 5 Humber and 3 Willys with MGs/Scouts/portable AT weapons. There were 4 Territorial Cavalry Regiments with Horse sqns, Bren Carriers, motorised riflemen, mortars, HMGs and AT guns (6 pounder).
Artillery was made of 4 Groups (Battalions) in each Division, 3 with 18 pieces of 25 pounder or leFH18 105mm, and the fourth with 18 Ordnance 140mm or sFH18 150mm. At Army Corps level there were Artillery Groups w/8 140mm and 4 114mm guns each.
Each of the 3 Infantry Regiments had 3 Battalions, an AT Coy with 12 6 pounder 57mm, a Recon Troop with 10 Bren Carrier (3 with Boys ATR), Engineer Platoon, Bicycle Platoon and a Defence Platoon (AA MGs and Boys ATR). Each Battalion had 3 Rifle Coy, a Support Coy and an Engineer Platoon. The Support Coy had 3 HMG Platoons (4 Breda HMG each) and a mortar Platoon (4 FBP m/937 81mm, licence built Italian WWII mortar, +4000m range, still active today). Each Rifle Coy had 3 Rifle Platoons (each 3 Rifle Sections of 13 men, lead by a Sargent w/MP34 9mm, a Dreyse 7,9mm LMG and Mauser 7,9mm rifles and hand grenades), There was a light mortar Section with 3 British 2 inch mortars and an AT Section with 3 Boys ATR, some PIAT were already in service since 1943 too). There was a Engineer Battalion at Divisional Level.
There were 13 independent Battalions, these being at 100% personnel and equipment (the most competent formations of the Portuguese Army). 10 were “Caçadores” (Hunters), 9 were stationed on the border with Spain since their civil war, the 5Th was at Lisboa and was full motorised, the other 3 Battalions were motorised MG Battalions, stationed at Lisboa, Porto and Figueira da Foz (near Coimbra). The “Caçadores” had 4 Rifle Coys, each had 3 regular rifle Platoons a support Platoon with 4 Breda HMG, 2 FBP m/937 81mm and a Boys ATR Section w/3 Boys), each battalion had a AT Coy with 8 6 pounder 57mm, a Gun Battery w/4 Ansaldo 75mm mountain guns, a Bicycle Platoon and an Engineer Platoon. The motorised MG Battalions had 3 motorised MG Coy, 1 Motorcycle Coy, 1 AT Coy with 8 6 pounder 57mm and 4 Flak38 20mm, an Engineer Platoon, a mortar Platoon (4 FBP m/937 81mm), and a Recon Platoon w/5 Bren Carrier(2 w/Boys). Each motorised MG Coy had 16 Borsig m/944 7,9mm (MG34 HMGs) in 4 Platoons, and a ATR Section w/2 Boys. The Motorcycle Coy had 4 Platoons w/3 MG34 LMGs each, a ATR Section w/3 Boys and light mortar Section with 3 British 2 inch mortars.

RC4 December 1st, 2017 07:17 AM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
In 1951 the NATO Division was formed from to fight in south France, it was operational only from 1953, each of the 3 Infantry Regiments had a tank Sqn of 22 M47 (HQ 2 tanks + 4 Troops of 5 tanks each), the Divisional Tank Group had 3 Sqns of 22 M47 each. There was a Recon Sqn w/16 M24.
In the Artillery the leFH18 105mm received new barrels from France to fire NATO M1 105mm ammo, the fourth Group had the same 18 Ordnance 140mm
Each of the 3 Infantry Regiments had 3 Battalions, an Heavy Mortar Coy w/8 107mm mortars, the Tank Sqn w/22 M47, and a Defence Platoon (AA MGs and Bazookas). Each Battalion had 3 Rifle Coy, a Support Coy and an Engineer Platoon. The Support Coy had 1 HMG Platoon (6 Breda HMG each) and a mortar Platoon (6 FBP m/937 81mm), a Recon Troop w/Willys and a RR Platoon w/6 RR 75mm(from 1955 4x106mm + 2x75mm). Each Rifle Coy had 3 Rifle Platoons (each 3 Rifle Sections of 9 men, lead by a Sargent w/MP34 9mm, a Dreyse 7,9mm LMG and Mauser 7,9mm rifles and hand grenades), there was a light mortar Section with 3 US 60mm M2 mortars and an AT Section with 3 57mm RR. Each Rifle Platoon had an M20 Bazooka. There was a Engineer Battalion at Divisional Level. There was a Signals Battalion instead of the old Signals coy.
From then on, the independent units reverted to Territorial status mostly, the NATO Division was formed from units mobilised from the 4 Infantry Divisions, so its organization was adapted to all 4 Divisions with exceptions in the 3 non NATO formations. Instead of the M47 they had Centurion/Valentine. Their Sqns had 17 tanks each instead of 22, there were tanks at Divisional level only, the IRs had an AT Gun Coy w/20 6 Pounder in place. The artillery had the 25 Pounder instead of the 105mm. There was a shortage of RRs, so they used older Boys/PIAT etc.
In 1955 the Portuguese Government released 2 more Divisions to help NATO defend the Pyrenees in Spain, to do that job, NATO send older equipment from Canada to those 2 Divisions, so the M4 Shermans, M5 Stuart, M74, Fox, Otter, Sexton, M9 Bazooka arrived. We didn’t have 17 Pounder.
In 1959 we started receiving the new Panhard EBR with the Panther 75mm gun. The Job of these fast moving Cavalry Groups was to make recon in front of those NATO Divisions, they could hunt T54 tanks.

RC4 December 2nd, 2017 05:44 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
In 1961 a revolution started in Angola, followed by Mozambique and Guinea. From then on, the Portuguese Army reverted to COIN, mobilizing for a war in Africa lasting in 1975.
The main combat formations were “Caçadores” Battalions w/3 Caçadores Coy and a HQ & Support Coy. These units were scattered in the colonies, with the HQ & Support Coy and a Caçadores Coy stationed at a location, and the other 2 Caçadores Coy employed independently. For this they organized in 4 Combat Groups (Platoons) of 3 Sections each, all the support weapons were spread to all the combat groups, usually rotation was with one on guard duty, other on patrol, other in rest and the last on reserve. Usually they had 3 Sections of 9 men, and were commanded by an officer. Offensive operations were reserved to Elite Forces (Comandos, Paraquedistas, Fuzileiros, etc).
The Cavalry employed horse formations. They were very successful on pursuit missions of revel groups.

RC4 December 2nd, 2017 05:58 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
We never had Hawk or I-Hawk, in the Helicopters never had EC635, Bell 205, NH90 or AH1F. Never had M16 AAMG.
We are still employing M60A3TTS in its original state, we didn’t upgrade them, they are used in the 3rd Sqn of the Tank Group of the Mechanized Brigade.

DRG December 10th, 2017 06:20 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
IN the final analysis, the easiest....... ( easiest as in a choice between hard, harder and hardest....hard is "easier"....).....solution that involved using the work you did was to use your OOB with slight modifications ( you cannot make mortars off map arty for one......minimum range for off map arty units is 200+ ) and adjust the picklist to suit which meant re-writing all of them.( "fun" job.....) The end result is still under testing but so far so good. Is Joao Maganinho your full name? Contact me in a PM if you like

RC4 December 12th, 2017 05:32 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
My name is João Paulo Maganinho, I Live near Porto in north Portugal. I served in the Portuguese Army from June 1994 to May 1998. I was a 2nd Sargent, half of my time I was at the 1st Infantry Battalion of the Azores Territorial Defence Group, the other I was at the Tank Group of the Mechanized Brigade at Santa Margarida.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiYcNcfJk3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8MoHyMjhls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbbmmjuhUmU
Thanks

DRG December 12th, 2017 06:57 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
I was lucky and happy that one one and only scenario that used Portugal only had only minor changes to make it playable with this revised OOB. I've had to make a few changes to make it compatible with other OOB's but the main job was the picklists which I am still fine tuning......but you did go a bit overboard with the SOF Snipers..I think 28 is a new record..... and that one "Rambo" HQ was changed to fit the common standard for HQ's

DRG December 14th, 2017 01:22 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Question

You have every rifle co including a mortar section. We do that with other nations infantry co as well but usually there is a basic rifle co and a rifle co + that includes other things like mortars or maybe ATGM...it varys from OOB to OOB.. your OOB does not have a basic infantry only co.....are you saying that without exception every infantry coy in the Portuguese Army operates with an attached mortar section ? Never as "just infantry" ?

RC4 December 14th, 2017 06:32 PM

Re: Portugal OOB73
 
Yes, we love mortars, you can see that in 1946 we only had 3 2inch in each rifle coy, from 1952 the US supplied 3 M2 60mm m/52 for replacement. Then came the colonial wars and the FBP factory develop the m/65 60mm to replace the m/52. Troops in African Jungles asked for a Commando type mortar to better react to ambushes and the Morteirete m/68 60mm was born. During this time Battalion level fire support was provided by 4-6 FBP m/937 81mm mortars, a licence built Italian WWII mortar. This was the best ranged mortar +4000m and fired light and heavy grenades. During war in Africa sometimes they carried them into the jungle, usually when a man had to sit down with the mortar on its back, it took 2 men to help lift him, but the result was very satisfactory with the blast effect compared to a 105mm artillery shell.
After the war we prepared to fight in Europe again, there were plenty of roads to travel, plenty of motor vehicles to use it and plenty of mortars. The Portuguese Armed Forces went down from some 250000 men in 1975 to some 50000 men in 1982. They decided to invest in firepower, so when I was at Azores a Rifle Coy was:
CAt (Companhia de Atiradores) (143) (Rifle Coy)
Cmdt (Comandante) (1) (1 P38) (Coy Commander)
SecCmd (Secção de Comando) (7) (HQ Sec)
Secretaria (3) (1 P38+1 M2HB+2 G3A3+1 G3A3 c/HK79) (Quartermaster)
Reabastecimentos (2) (1 VTP+1 AtrM+1 M2HB+2 G3A3+36 M72) (Supply)
Transmissões (2) (1 VTL+2 G3A3) (Signals)
3x PlAt (Pelotão de Atiradores) (34) (1of+4sar+9cb+20sol) (Rifle Platoon)
Cmd PlAt (3) (3 G3A3+1 P/PRC425 radio) (Platoon HQ)
3x SecAt (Secção de Atiradores) (11) (Rifle Sec)
Cmdt SecAt (1) (1 G3A3) (Section Commander)
2x EqAt (Esquadra de Atiradores) (5) (Rifle Squad)
Each (3 G3A3+1 G3A3 c/Bipé+1 G3A3 c/HK79+2 M72)
2x EqMeL (Esquadra de Metralhadora Ligeira) (3) (LMG Squad)
Each (1 HK21+1 G3A3+2 P38)
PlAp (Pelotão de Apoio) (33) (Support Platoon)
Cmd PlAp (3) (3 G3A3) (Platoon HQ)
SecACar (Secção Anti-carro) (7) (Antitank Sec)
Cmdt SecACar (1) (1 G3A3) (Commander)
2x EqACar (Esquadra Anti-carro) (3) (Antitank Squad)
Each (1 M-40A1 106mm+1 G3A3+2 P38+1 M72) (1 VTL)
SecMoMed (Secção de Morteiros Médios) (23) (Medium Mortar Sec)
Cmd SecMoMed (2) (1 G3A3+1 P38) (Sec HQ)
4x EqMoMed (Esquadra de Morteiros Médios) (5) (Medium Mortar Squad)
Each (1 m/937 81mm+1 G3A3+4 P38) (1 VTM+1 AtrM)
3x EqOAv (Esquadra de Observadores Avançados) (2) (FO Squad)
Each (1 G3A3+1 G3A3 c/HK79+ P/PRC425)

At Battalion level there was a Heavy Mortar Platoon with 4 Tampella B m/74 120mm
PlMoP (Pelotão de Morteiros Pesados) (36)
Cmd PlMoP (8) (6 G3A3+1 G3A3 c/HK79+1 P38) (1 VTL+1 VTM+1 AtrL+1 AtrM)
4x SecMoP (Secção de Morteiros Pesados) (7)
Each (1 Tampella 120mm+2 G3A3+1 G3A3 c/HK79+4 P38) (1 VTM+1 AtrM)

VTP – Heavy Truck
VTM – Medium Truck
VTL – Jeep
AtrM – Medium Trailer
AtrL – Light Trailer

When I went to the Mechanized Brigade, the Mechanized Infantry Bns had 3 M125A1 in each Coy and 4 M106A1 at Battalion level

So my answer is yes, every normal rifle coy has 3 81mm mortars, and when we went to the field we took them with us, sometimes by foot with some ammo.

Right now there are 3 “normal” Infantry Bns at the PO Army, two in the Azores and one in Madeira. On the Continent the Mechanized Brigade have just one Mechanized Infantry Bn (Track-M113), the Intervention Brigade has two Mechanized Infantry Bn (Wheal-Pandur) and the Rapid Reaction Brigade have two Paratrooper Bns, one Commando Bn and a Special Forces Bn.
Thanks


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