Suggestion regarding artillery
 

If there is something like this and I just don't know it, I apologize.

My problem with setting artillery is that when I have more than one spotter/foo I tend to lose time when setting artillery. I will try to explain.

Let's say I have 10 artillery pieces, and 3 spotters. I pick spotter (a) and use artillery units 1-4 to shoot somewhere, I do the same with the rest.

After a few turns, unless I keep using the same artillery for the same observer and same target, I will find myself directing fire for one or more of my artillery with a different observer, by accident.

I hope I am clear so far.

For the artillery bombing screen, what I suggest, if possible, to either have a button which shows the target of the artillery, without telling the artillery to use the current observer.
Or, have, perhaps text, next to each artillery, the designation of the current observer.

I have no idea if I am clear enough with this. :confused:

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

If you click an artillery unit (from the Bombardment unit list), it will jump the Bombardment Map toward the last mission of that artillery unit. Notice the red hexagon outline that indicates the exact place.

So the solution would be:

-Select the FOO
-Open Bombardment Screen and cycle through the list to see which one has the target location (i.e last mission) nearest from that FOO you selected.
-Plot the bombardment.
-Select another FOO and repeat the process.

I assume using multiple FOOs is useful for when they have eyes on target, thus usually the target area is near that FOO. Otherwise, if FOOs are plotting without direct LOS, might as well just use one FOO.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

That's the thing though, it is more complicated than I would have liked. You have to make notes which artillery is "bound" to which FOO so that if you need to re focus/target something, you don't mess up with the other artillery pieces.
If however you knew (with for example what I suggested) that in the bombing screen what artillery was "bound" with what spotter, you wouldn't need to either memorize everything, take notes on anything, and you would speed up the process without mistakes.

As it is now, say you make a mistake AND you realize your mistake, then you have to find the proper/previous FOO and re order the bombarding. Something that you could avoid if there was an easier way to see who was spotting for who from the same bombarding screen.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

All I am saying is, this is something that would improve the "QOL" as it would both make it easier to arrange/order bombardment and easier to avoid any mistakes. It's not a bug or problem. Just something that IMO would make the experience of planning bombardments, much more pleasant*.
Anyway.


*that is for everyone other than who ever was going to have to implement this. :)

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

As most of your FOOs are likely to have similar experience all that counts is whether they can see the target location or not - so what difference does it make which FO called the original bombardment?

Sorry I am obviously missing something...

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Well seeing the target is quite important as far as I am concerned. Accuracy is something that I want to have when I am trying to hit something. Including when I want to order strikes. I am not sure how that is not clear. :confused:

Or have I been playing the game wrong all this time and it doesn't matter if whoever calls for the strike can't actually see the target themselves?

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Yes sorry - I meant that as long as the "new" Observer can see the target it doesn't matter if he called the initial strike.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Amen to this, it is a really good idea. At the moment with large artillery lists and multiple observers I find I have to manually copy the artillery list onto an A4 sheet of paper and write the observer beside each piece or battery. What would be really nice would be to start off with one artillery list labelled "unassigned". Then when each observer is selected to come up with the pieces that he (or she! not forgetting Suhir:)) controls.
Also it would be nice to have lost contact pieces show up in the list as greyed out. At the moment when you see a gold spot you wish to cancel and it has lost contact you have to trawl through the list to find the culprit.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Or to make it very simple (I assume easier to implement), have next to each artillery (in the artillery list/bombardment list) a couple of pixels of two colors. One for if the artillery currently has orders by the currently selected observer, one for if it has orders from a different observer, and perhaps a third color if it has no orders or out of contact.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Are you saying you want to keep track of which FOO called in the unit last and you swap them round
or
You want to assign FOOs to specific units for the battle, thats not hard buy the artillery in the order of the FOOs your going to assign them to. As there offboard units you could even buy the FOO & his tubes, next FOO & his tubes etc. & still cycle through your FOOs easily.
If its a scenerio so using editor you could even rename them if you wanted though I only do this for planes which have the same names but diffrent weapon loadouts

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

I like this idea! A simple "traffic light" system: green assigned by current selected FO, Orange assigned by another, Red unassigned/off net. Either a small coloured block or have the Name or ID of the artillery change colour in the bombardment screen.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

To Imp, I only play scenarios from the game, I don't roll my own so I guess the answer to your question is option 1.
The traffic light system sounds like a really good idea, although a fourth colour would be ideal to differentiate between unassigned and out of contact.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

I finished recording another session of my let's play and I managed to do slightly better with the whole artillery assignment bit. From next time I will have a piece of paper and notice down unit and artillery assigned to it. Not the best way but it will do till (if) this gets implemented in the game.

Another two things I just thought, two lines appearing between the targeted hex, the unit calling the strike and the strike unit (in case of artillery) itself. Now this is not as necessary (for me) as the original idea, but could be useful under certain circumstances.

The other is having next/on top, to the image of the ordered strike on the map (explosion/smoke) the code(s) of the observer and strike unit. This could also be enabled disabled through game options in case someone (I can't think of a reason) wouldn't want to have that extremely useful information there to see.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Interesting.

Building a formation with the FOO in the first slot with the artillery units in subsequent slots, accomplish the same effect?

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Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Not if they are on map units.

Certain units I like to buy in groups, forget setting them up correctly.
Do this with FOOs, anti aircraft and sometimes ATGMs.
You can still cross attach them to a suitable Company.
Buy buying adjacent you can easily scroll through the units using N & P, helpful for FOOs.
Very helpfull for AA can find who can target the helo quickly.
Also AA and ATGM often have limited ammo so can cycle quickly to check.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

I only ever use the one FOO, and but it as the first unit so it always appears just after A0 on page 1 of the 2 roster screens, so its easy to find rather than scrolling all over the map.

The same would still apply if you want several FOOS - buy them all first then they are at the start of the list so easily found via the HQ menu screen listing. You could then say keep a mental list in your head - #1 is at the top of the map, #2 is somewhere in the middle of the map and #3 is the one deployed down south say.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

That is fine but not really the issue, at least for me.
If you have more than a couple of artillery/planes and more than a couple of obs, as I usually have as I play in maxed out maps, it is hard to impossible to remember which obs spots for which artillery and vice-versa. It doesn't matter if in the lists the obs are near the top or not. Unless you take notes (pen and paper) which obs guides which artillery, you can easily not only pick the wrong artillery, but more importantly you can easily "give orders" to the wrong artillery by just clicking on it and then have to exit the bombardment screen, pick the right obs and then re assign it to the right artillery.
I thin I explained it better in my original posts.
Unless of course you are talking about something else so, my fault.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

The game doesn't care which observer adjusts the fire, other than the initial one (for time of arrival) and LOS when the shells fall. The mission isn't "owned" by whatever observer called the shoot, just whichever one you decided to do the last adjust with is allocated as the last one to spot it, and hence any LOS issue is from him.

So - its perfectly OK to find your most skilled observer and call with him, then adjust with whoever has the best LOS.

The only advantage of multitudes of observers is that it can give you a couple more "gold spots" in some cases, and you have them in areas where they might have LOS to the impact hex if trees and smoke do not obscure LOS. But observers can be expensive items.

Me, I just buy one just after A) and call from him and aujust using him even if the adjustment is blind most of the time. About the only time I use someone else may be for some danger close fires, and I will use a command element that has LOS and accept the extra +1 or whatever per adjustment just to make sure.

But your worrying about "who owns the shoot" is not an issue. The last observer you used is the one who now owns the mission so simply find the one of several you have on the map that has the required LOS (if any) and use that, and consider using a company or platoon commander with LOS perhaps, if they have requisite LOS, accepting that they may be slower shifters.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

:)
But that is my "issue".
Since it is so easy to have the wrong observer "call the shot" simply because you can't always remember who has the best LOS to the target hex AND which artillery aims where.
You have to exit and enter the bombardment screen all the time because when you have plenty of artillery and observers you have to keep doing this, especially if you accidentaly giver orders from the wrong observer to the wrong artillery.
That's of course if one does it like I do and wants to have as accurate/speedy barrage as possible.
Years earlier I too would just use just one observer, if that. Many times I would just use my HQ unit.
But, as I see accuracy (and speed as a secondary thing) changes if the observer sees the target hex or not, I prefer whenever I can to do that.
It's not about experience of the crew or something.
Don't get me wrong, this is clearly not a bug or anything bad on its own. It's more a quality of life type of thing. At least as I see it.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

It's simple. Whichever observer you have selected becomes the one in control of the mission.

Therefore, just select an observer and see if it has LOS, if that is what you are worried about. If he cannot see the impact, try another if you have several. You don't even have to go to the bombardment screen the normal LOS display for units will work fine to check if LOS exists.

There is no such thing as a "wrong" observer, since any one will do. Barring the first call for a new fire mission perhaps, if one is skilled and so faster than another one.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

What Andy said. One observer for all. If don't have a dedicated FOO you just use the A0. Plain and simple. No need to keep track on pen and paper.

Also, just click the spot where it last shot and adjust from there or reassign to new spot (with or with out gold spot).


Even if no LOS it will still drop.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Either you don't understand me or I don't you.
I am not saying there isn't a simpler way of doing things by just having one observer calling all the shots. It's just not as good as having dedicated observers (or other units who can call artillery) depending on the target and artillery unit.
With the same (yours) logic, might as well just use the HQ to call artillery and save the money of even one observer...

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Its as simple as this - whoever you have currently selected on entering the bombardment is the controller for any new adjustments made in the bombardment screen.

There is NO requirement that if battery Z is initially called in by Observer O that you need to only ever use O as its dedicated personal controller. If observer (or command unit) P has LOS to the impact and is the current unit selected in the bombardment screen, it can happily adjust battery Z's mission.

So multiple observers are only needed in order to have several different LOS arcs. Or to give you a few more gold spots, but if the observer is skilled or is 1990s level tech then they can call in fires on impromptu targets fairly quickly anyway, and most gold spots plotted seem to be wasted as the battle occurs elsewhere, in my experience. Gold spots are useful in the early period or in WW2 - or if you have an inexperienced FO. In campaign games, the FO is very valuable (esp in WW2!) so that you do not want to put him where enemy arty will fire.

You could simply use A0, but he isn't as skilled as a dedicated FO at least till he has gained a lot of experience - and as he wont be racking up kills, he will only pick up slowly over time.

I find one FO does the job, and I mainly fire and adjust "blind" without having any need to bother with carting him round the battlefield in a jeep to gain LOS arcs onto targets. In MBT, a foot FO with TI or a radar on a hilltop in my rear zone is all I bother with. If he has LOS to the target, then it's gravy but I do not obsess about manoeuvring him about the place, I do obsess about placing him somewhere the enemy is not likely to drop a shed-load of arty onto because something attracted its attention like say nearby MRL blasting away for a couple of turns, though. I want him well away from anybody else, and preferably on a nice big hill with a good vista.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Simply select the Observer you want to use and adjust whichever arty you want...once you do that then THAT observer is the one the game references for accuracy etc etc. If you move another observer into a better position then click on that and adjust the arty and then THAT one becomes the observer for the arty you adjusted

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

That works for the first barrage or so. What happens 10-15 turns in the battle? If you have more than a couple of artillery/observers you end up with either having a list per observer, which is waste of artillery, or risk having artillery swapping observer because you clicked on it without knowing that it had another observer giving it orders.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Yes I know there is no such requirement :p That's the problem, that each artillery gets assigned to another observer by accident because there is no way of knowing which artillery is already assigned to which observer/hex.

I think I will make a short video explaining myself perhaps a bit better with the visual aids. I will have one by tomorrow.

Still thank you all for your replies so far.

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

...don't worry....eventually everyone will understand everyone else :)

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

I already had a suggestion on the list that covers this.

One problem is while advancing you have NO idea where you fire plan is and it's a simple problem on a small map with a few units.... you can click bombardment and see them..... but when you go back to the main menu they go away......again...easy to deal with unless you are on a full size map with 16 batteries and 8 observers and you are trying to advance with the barrage and as you advance your initial foo loses LOS and you have to assign a new one to get it back.

I would like a hot key that displays the bombard missions that would stay on map while you advance and clicking on one would show who the spotter is.

BUT this got backburned last release and we have not discussed the feasibility of it at all

You want to know WHO called the bombardment not who the FOO is you just clicked on..... when you only play using one FOO... the answer is simple

Keep in mind I don't get everything I suggest either...

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Another thing that seems to be overlooked is who controls ( called ) a arty mission when you click a FOO ( or command unit ) the ones that FOO ( or command unit ) called show in green


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1531658829

and

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1531658887

so when you pick a FOO and go to the bombardment menu it will show which one that FOO is responsible for and if you don't like his LOS simply pick a FOO that has better LOS and adjust the fire and then THAT new FOO is the controller

The "problem" is....the game only tells you who is controlling it when you enter the bombard menu and then it's whatever command unit you selected so he's the controller if you adjust fire but there is no way to know which of the FOO's you might have on map are the ones controlling a fire mission NOW

I see your point but I see Andy's as well....if you have a fire mission and you have a FOO in a better position to observe it select him and then make an adjustment and then that FOO is your controller...if you don't make an adjustment then it's the original observer who still controls it but the missing info is who that is.....Andy's POV is it does not matter who controls it before you adjust fire only that you did adjust fire with the observer in the best position and now he's the controller for that battery fire mission

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Wow - you do learn something new now every and then:cool:

I have been playing the game as well as going into the actual guts of that part of the code for years and had never noticed that neat little feature!

Cheers
Andy

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

*(where I say observer I mean any unit spotting for the artillery)

Yes it is possible to work around it, but it is not convenient. You have to keep going back and forth into the bombardment screen and locating the appropriate (best LOS) observer/spotter etc. If you click on the "wrong" artillery while you are in the bombardment screen from the "wrong" observer, you have now given orders to the artillery from that observer. So you have to get out of the bombardment screen, find the right observer for the artillery you have clicked on by accident, go back to the bombardment screen and reassign the observer to the artillery you never planned to change observer in the first place. Something that could be done in 5 seconds without errors needs to take a min. (time taken out of my *** but you get my point :p )

*ps love your photo editing skills :p

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

NO......

Simply clicking on a unit does NOT re-assign it to the new obsever.....you have to shift the target for it to change from the original. As long as the target hex does not change neither does the observer

The problem remains that you have no way to check that but the observer does not change until a new observer takes control by shifting fire

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

.......Andy already told you that a few posts back

The key word you missed is " ADJUST" ( not just click on ......he has to adjust the fire to take control )

Re: Suggestion regarding artillery
 

Indeed.
This definitely helps a lot.
Not perfect but pretty good.
Thanks and sorry to Andy for missing that.