Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

So while going through some of my archives I found these 54 scenarios that I could not find in MBT.

I used ScenHack to first look for the files and when I could not fine them I then re-numbered them to 420-474, and then ran them through ScenHack, and used that to fix the errors in the OOB's. I also added some text at the end and looked them over when I loaded them up in the editor/game.

As far as I can tell they are fine.

Any feedback is welcomed.

EDIT: Removed attachments as they have been updated and placed into the 2019 patch. 3/28/2019

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Firefight in Gaza Scenario #424


Down and dirty little knife fight - a couple of issues:
1. VP hexes off map. They need moving (put on top of others) PLO tends to wonder off rather than fight...

2. VP on map have value of 0?
3. The PLO are hugely out pointed - You could double the PLO and the Légion étrangère would still win easily.
4. a couple of minor typos in the text file (French DELAY not Defend, title missing T)

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Scorpio Rocks,

Thanks for the feedback, I adjusted the VP, and added a few more PLO forces. I am on turn 8, its a bit more tougher, let me know if it needs more adjustment. I added 2 more snipers, some suicide bombers and a smg platoon. Added fix to first post.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Much better matey!

I still got a DV despite a suicide bomber calmly walking unseen into my command post taking my A0 legionaries and a VBL off to paradise with him!
The VP now make the game work.


I will have a go at some of the others later today - some strange looking ones in the mix including at least one with 1 man units...

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

"War Torn" Scenario #455


My guess is that some of the design decisions made originally came from the novel...


This one has quite a few problems from VPs off map, through some weird map choices ("North/South" orientation, layout, terrain, etc) and force choices (SAS in Chinooks, MBTs, mobile mortars, lots of Ammo dumps/vehicles for AI side, etc) to type of scenario - Meeting would probably work better as Taliban delay / UK advance.


I don't think this one is a quick fix...


I MAY take a look at redoing it, but in doing so will probably break the link to the book by removing stuff like the SAS, etc (I haven't read the novel). I guess we need to decide whether the book link is something we need to retain or whether we would prefer a more generic (but a little more realistic) scenario

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

scorpio rocks,

For War Torn (455) go for it. There are 54 of these things and if it is deemed an okay scenario and someone wants to teak it that is fine by me. Glad the other works.

Currently I am in the process of making some scenario conversions for SPWW2 from old/new board war games. So feel free to edit this one, if there are some minor fixes I can do then that is not a problem. Have not read the novel.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

"One at a Time" Scenario #441


A VERY (for me at least!) tough little scenario - I don't think it works due to the forces being single man units (or single weapon teams) for the most part - I'm not sure that SP is the right engine/game for such a small scale skirmish!


Better minds than mine would be needed to decide whether this scenario has a place in the game or whether it can be salvaged and balanced with "normal" sized units.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

I vaguely recall someone pushed that idea years ago ...this may have been an experiment and why it never made it to the game because as you point out this isn't what SP is designed to simulate. So before they go into the game I will poll to see if any just don't work well

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Nothing much to add here. I know Lima 85 (438) is in the game. Other than that, holy moly, a Valley of Tears level?! I know how I'm spending my weekend.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

I have not extracted these for two reasons......one they are a WIP and I have many other things on my plate ATM...when the dust finally settles and any final corrections made then I will DL the final set and take a look at them BUT.......if this set does indeed have a Lima 85 as scenario 438 then you'll need to check how it compares to the existing Lima 85 that is already in slot 170.....they may be different versions of the same battle......or the same scenario

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Y'all might be thinking about Over There scenario #115, based on the TV show Over There in 2005.


From IMDB:

A U.S. Army unit, consisting mostly of new soldiers, finds itself engaged in bloody firefights immediately following their arrival in Iraq. Focusing more on the soldiers' lives than on war itself, "Over There" follows the stories of Sgt. Chris "Scream" Silas and his unit - which includes Pfc. Bo Rider, Pvt. Frank "Dim" Dumphy and Pvt. Brenda "Mrs. B." Mitchell. The series was created by veteran TV producer Stephen Bochco ("NYPD Blue"; "L.A. Law"). The show's title comes from a 1917 George M. Cohan song about U.S. soldiers fighting in World War I.

This is a Wild Bill Wilder 8 turn scenario, so lace your boots tight.

<br>

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Oddity in Scn 426 Standing with the Yankees.

Unit A2 is a normal MP unit but is worth 120 VPs. There are other units with night vision that only cost 50 vp so I think this is a typo rather than intentional.

Other than that the scenario is fun.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Scn 428 Surrounded in Vietnam had a weird thing happen with the scoring. I took and help all the V hexes and only lost 16 men yet the AI scored 902 base VPs.

I can't figure out where these are coming from.

See attached screen shot

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

860 points from artillery overload points were gifted to him from the enemy, providing him with most of his score.

Has the enemy lots of arty, ammo trucks etc? or maybe the scenario designer has made some arty and/or ammo units more expensive for some scenario design trick?.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

I understand the overload points since the US player has tons at his disposal.

What I don't understand is where the standard points came from. The VC player held no v hexes and only killed 16 men. Is there another source of standard VPs that I am not aware of?

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

were some of these 16 men in units that were eliminated? - a single casualty is worth a point or 2. A damaged vehicle is worth a few points per damage point - so how many damaged vehicles?. An element completely destroyed is worth more than a damaged one.

"16 men" is entirely irrelevant- its what amount of damage was done, even if the unit wasn't eliminated (like a tank with say 24 points of damage from a partial kill, still running but hurt may have had 2 crew casualties to add to the men killed column). With the proviso as mentioned that complete kills are more valuable.

look at the listing of forces in the HQ screen and tot up the red damage points for everything that got bent or broken by the enemy.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

The only total loss was a 19 point LRRP squad. Everything else was just damaged.

No units had unusual costs.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Issue with Scn 429 Desperate Defense.

The AT infantry units are equipped with smoke discharges like vehicles rather than with smoke ammo.

I have never seen this before.

Other than that this is a tough but fun scenario.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Scn 430 Cavalry Raid:

Units T0, U0, and O0 are listed at 12.7 HMGs but are actually BTR-70s with 3 HMGs

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Keep posting your feedback RetLT, I'll check and try to make adjustments as we go along. (Currently working on some scenarios for WW2 and a mini-campaign or two).

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Okay, so I loaded the 3 you had issues with.

428, I am not seeing anything goofy by looking at the deployments and setup with the units. So I'll play it through and see if I spot anything.

429, I also did not see anything goofy in the editor, but it would help, if I knew which exact AT inf units were using smoke dischargers.

431 (not 430) is Cavalry Raid, and I fixed the 12.7 HMG sections to actually be correct HMG. Will post when I have enough others edited.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

The ATG units in 429 are: M4, M5, N4, N5, P2, P3, T2, T3, U2 and U3.

All of the ATG units have them so it is probably in the OOB rather than a one off issue. I have not seen this in any of the other Swedish scenarios.

I am looking forward to your mini-campaign.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

An important factor to consider is the original age of the scenario as you originally found it.....many OOB's have undergone major reconstruction over the years and I ( try ) to keep up with that in the scenarios issued with the game. Those are checked before every release so if an OOB has a number of changes made over time the game scenarios get upgraded each step of the way......but if you dig up one that is 9 years old and has never been upgraded you could find weird things especially if the original was made with units that were infantry then over time the OOB was changed and there ended up with a vehicle uni in what had been an infantry unit.

I have copies if all OOB's for both games going back to the last DOS versions and sometimes I have to check when a scenario was built to find our why odd things are happening but it's rare as I rarely have to deal with " found" old scenarios

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Great points Don. I'd have to dig up the original zips if you wanted the original files to find out the exact details. Or you could use the ones I dug into. They mostly seem to work find with the tweaks I made. Some are pretty logical guesses on what to fix, but some slipped through and when RetLT found them, I fixed them

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Scn 432 Larry, Curley and Moe:

The turn zero air strike targets are too close to friendly troops. I lost several Bradleys to friendly fire. I don't know if this is intentional or not.

One suggestion I would make would be to increase the value of the Ammo trucks. the scenario is about protecting them yet they are of normal value.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

If you make the ammo trucks expensive then you can run into the problem of artillery overload points as they are classed as artillery units (because they are a force multiplier for humans, but not the AI, so this is deliberate to penalise human players for their use).

If the scenario designer wants some expensive trucks to guard - then best to use heavy trucks and set their points high. If he wants to make then explodable, then he can give them an explosive weapon (see the suicide trucks in the PLO(?) OOB) - but then the AI may use them as suicide trucks of course, so that may not be the best idea if they are on the AI side.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Stick an ammo container in them?

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Ammo container is still an ammo truck, so is charged for.

(it has special code to allow it to be picked up by a transport, as well as giving reduced supply rate. The pick up code seems to have been borked by something in the last release, so that needs unborking it seems)

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Well the main problem is that for these 50 some scenarios we have no (?) contact with the original scenario designer and or his intensions. So we can make tweaks the best we can I suppose?

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Thinking was could keep ammo container at cost or cheaper and increase the price of the carrying truck so it will have little impact on artillery overload costs.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Here is another idea:

Increase the value of the ammo trucks to 150 each. This adds 984 points to the overload calculation.

Remove the 4 strike aircraft, which are more of a menace to the Americans than the Iraqis, and this removes 958 of those points leaving a total increase of only 26 additional points for the overload calculation.

I would also add a special rule that at least 3 of the 8 trucks must reach a v-hex or the American player automatically loses. This forces the human player to move them from their start position and to safeguard them along the way making the scenario much more challenging.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

I'm not sure that the aircraft count in the artillery overload?

EDIT= found it in the GG:
"Air units or ADA do not count as artillery points, only mortars, howitzers etc. that can fire indirectly. Ammo resupply units do count as artillery points, as they are a human use only unit against the AI."

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

I guess it is back to pricey trucks carrying ammo canisters.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Scn 434 Rear Guard.

Fun scenario. The Reds got so close I could smell them.

Two minor issues though.

#1 The Turkish (actually American) M4 Unit F0 has 255 rounds of HE ammo.


#2 The Chinese AT Rifle teams I5, K3, N4 and N5 do not carry AT rifles but rather bazookas. They should be labeled as "AT Team" like unit I4 is. Additionally all of these units (including I4) have 50 rounds of bazooka ammo. Also, this ammo is listed as AP instead of HEAT

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Scn 435 Into the Beehive:

Vietminh artillery batteries AH0 and AH1 are listed as immobilized and do not fire.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

I am not 100% sure about this.

I just set up a test scenario to see if I could kill a level bomber with an ammo dump explosion so I bought nothing but B-52s and an HQ. When the scenario started I was charged overload points. Maybe level bombers are different?

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

On the list to check......

Edit

Just checked WW2 with the same test....HQ and level bombers.... game showed arty overload so ( to my surprise ) it does look like Level bombers count to arty overload so between now and the next patch we'll decide if we change the write up in the game guide to include level bombers or change the code to make sure they are excluded from adding to overload

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

GOOD CATCH......it actually exposed two problems....the arty overload and another more interesting one.......when level bombers make their run they dump their bombs and you don't get to use them again but it looks like the code used 1 point of damage as the way to remove them from the roster...... that one point damage was being awarded to the other player as one victory point :doh:

I have no real way to check but that may go WAY back

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

The 1 damage point to flag aircraft as "used up" goes back to the original game, so 1995 or whatever.

The level bomber class shouldn't be getting added to arty overload - will be fixed.

cheers
Andy

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

Lost scenarios bring up some interesting results lol. Been fun watching this thread.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

We may be reading this wrong. I just tried the same scenario with bombers for player 1 but no ammo dumps for player 2. There was no overload.

I think the overload we were seeing was for player 2 having the ammo dumps not for player 1 having nothing but bombers.

I ran the game out and the points were added to player 1's score even though it said that the points were granted to player 2

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

This will be investigated along with the rest. If you are going to test you have to do it under very controlled conditions........my "test" with bombers involved me buying for player one and letting the AI buy for player 2....... I bought a whack of bombers and let 10 of them fly in and that's how I spotted the 1 damage point being awarded but the test result showed 56 points of arty overload awarded to player one...... I was so focused in on duplicating your test without the ammo dump it only now occurred to me that it was player 1 that got the extra points for overload......so it was the AI that overloaded player 2 and why player one got the extra 56 points........ but now I need to fully re-test under exactly controlled conditions to see what is going on.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

OK......... your post 41 IS correct........ there IS NO ARTY OVERLOAD GOING TO PLAYERS FOR LEVEL BOMBERS..... My second test was a few dozen bombers for player 1 and nothing but infantry for player 2..... at end game neither side was given arty overload points so both our original tests were skewed and why the assumption was made that they were adding to arty overload.....I have conclusively proven they do not

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

SCN 443 Cleaning up the farm:

Units retreat in the wrong direction
Unknown is spelled as "Unknowen" on map

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

SCN 446 SEAAC First Move:

Unit C2 starts the game destroyed after arriving on turn 2.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

SCN 447 Diversion Created:

Green Unit E0 starts between buildings and must ram one to move away.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

SCN 448 SEEAC Curtin:

Unit T0 starts off map.

I would add some AA units to the Aussi side. Seems odd to have an airbase with no air defense units.

I would also add some targets to the airbase in the form of grounded aircraft and/or ammo dumps. This would give the human player something to defend.

I would also add some RPGs to the attacking force. they are severely lacking in anti-tank weaponry.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

SCN 450 Retaking the Bridges:

German A0 unit is listed as a passenger but is not carried by any unit. It does not arrive as a reinforcement either. It is just missing

Strange OOB issues with the Soviet side:

1. Units F0 and F1 are 12.7mm HMG units but are BTRs with heavy armor
2. Unit K0 is an 81 MM but is an amphibious jeep icon and acts as a vehicle.
3. The para snipers (B3, C3, and J0 use Pencheneg LMGs as their primary weapon.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

SCN 453 Dream 1

AI has no chance of winning or even making it close. Value of V hexes needs to be increased of the number of turns needs to be increased.

OOB Issues: Unit I0 uses ROK flag. Units K1 and J0 use Swedish flag.

Re: Missing Lost Scenarios?
 

SCN 454 Dream 2 Austrian unit AE0 uses NVA flag.


Also, I did not know the Hungarians had that many T-55s. They just keep coming!