Minor issues
 

In my opinion these issues seem a bit strange:
-Helicopters seem more durable than MBT.
-Animation level does not seem to affect replays.
-Would be nice to have a "continue battle" option after game have finished adding extra turns if both players choose to have this option.
-Able to choose what ammo type is used same way as disabling weapons or smoke discharges from the menu.
-Able to turn Radar On/Off manually.
-Would be nice that vehicles would not always cause fire and smoke when destroyed. Do not know what would be realistic, but maybe something like 1/2 or 1/3.

Re: Minor issues
 

Really?


1. Helicopters can be killed by small arms fire, MBTs can't. A MBT can shrug off hits by tank shells, even the most armoured of attack helos is going down from a direct hit from a MBT.


2. I can't comment definitively on this point - I do know they don't tend to mount the targeting pods that have almost de rigueur on modern attack aircraft.


3. Many/most countries have some form of special forces - whether the OoB builder of a specific country chose to include these troop types that are rarely, if ever, operating in the FEBA depicted in the game was up to them.

Re: Minor issues
 

Yeah but south korea might be one of the most militarily specialized country in the world regarding the quality of their troops. One of their generals, for example have invented tae kwon do and they supposedly have troops with martial expertise of masters in armed and unarmed combat.

Seems rather uneven that they do not have special forces to be wielded in this game when some countries have even in reality their special dudes are eating pizza and playing play station.

Check out hind. (Survivability 14 and armor 2)

At least in my experience damage wont stack so if damage is not over 14 it can take damage endlessly which seem unrealistic. It seems to stack with planes but not with helicopters, might be a typo in the code of game or is this intended.

Most small arms or even dedicated aa guns and sam missiles wont even damage it at all. Need area sam type of weapon to deal damage relatively well and even still could take tens of missiles to bring it down. Or better yet, only one but never seem to happen though.

Should preserve those for planes but hind can suck em dry before they ever get a change on strike elements.

Tanks are almost always destroyed with one hit of any dedicated weapon.

Seems also that being shot with twenty missiles and hundreds of aa rounds do not affect its own shooting capabilities at all.

Not an expert in warfare, but have seen mil mi-25 in this game being hit about twenty times with different kind of dedicated anti air weapons including area sams without any afect to its cababilities and when i watched a video about one of the weapons, that explosion could probably knock out buildings.

In gamewise its downward stupid, those can just fly over the map without really caring about aa fire at all, taking hits of 3xpoint cost of anti air weapons and winning anti air of 3xpoint cost in a straight shootout war. Pretty sure helicopters should not really work like that.

On thing which is also stupid is could fly to a hill where there is tens of aa elements and blast them to pieces in point blank range. Taking evasive actions nah really dont care, straight ahead.

Just trying to point out some things that really seem unrealistic and seem to unbalance the game. Dropping helicopter effectivity would be rather dull option because there are copters that do drop but hind seems not to be one of them.

Would suggest to change helicopter damage so that it works like with planes. Consulted a local military expert about this and i got a reply that it should be otherway around, that helicopters are actually quite sensitive to damage more so than planes.

Or is my version of the game not working like it should ?

One thing i found rather strange that dvina or similars area sam hit 2% to even planes with none or low on ew and still cost 100 pts a piece, why bother ?

Suppose the point costs indicate a gaming balance that different type of armies could have a change with same use of points and the idea is to be a balanced game.

If thats the idea, i could point out many units that seem under or overcosted in my opinion on what they do in the game. Should help in the progress of game balance which must be a lot of work when there is a insane amount of units and timelines. Wonder how much work have been put out to this game.

Original is one of the best games i have played and i think this is even better.

Re: Minor issues
 

Quote

it's SUPPOSED to be difficult to shoot down

That said, we will see what others think about this. The unit has 2 armour which means nothing under 2 pen will harm it unless there is a rare overpenetration result. BUT. if it is repeatedly being hit by weapons that should be penetrating but are not then we may need to tweak the code

Re: Minor issues
 

I think the main issue is the non stackable damage when any helicopter can take damage endlessly. Why copters and planes are treated differently in that aspect when both of them use the durability value.

This enables you to suck up the entirety of aa fire to one copter even it would retreat in the next turn and roam free with the others.

If i am right planes have in code that 4+4+4=12 damage but copters have 4+4+4=4 damage. Made me wonder could it be a typo or is it intentionally placed like that.

Re: Minor issues
 

Please tell me you're not over 18 years old...

Re: Minor issues
 

But it's true man. Go check urself would bet my money on south korean special forces over almost any forces on the world in man vs man combat.

They mean no joke.

Might just be a country where there is the most strict military doctrine in the whole world. In gamewise, exp (skill ?) and morale should be top notch to represent this.

Lets say like in finland (where i live) whose exp and morale is ranked much higher in this game, people here are pampered and whine basically almost from anything and ppl get traumatized mentally for life when someone was bullying them in school or they had the wrong clothes. Those kind of minds would shatter in a real war.

Its not like in the ww era, nowdays ppl are different. Mentally unstable, lazy and have no tolerance for hardships.

In south korea they are executed and military doctrine + martial law is everyday thing, they probably would hardly notice a change to a war.

Their equipment is probably so outdated thoyuh that they could be bombed to bits by ppl sitting in front of computer far away from battle.

But this game is not about that, there aint even nuclear weapons or such.

Probably should ask, does this game intend to be a game that simulates a realistic war with realisticly simulated equipment and setting ?

Re: Minor issues
 

Once in a blue moon someone brings up that the South Koreans don't have special forces ( and act like they cannot believe we don't have them ). I put it on the list then get busy with other things and as every release, something ends up on the bottom of the list and doesn't get done and that is one of them.....I put it on the list again. They will end up being variations of standard infantry with higher morale and experience ...just like all the other SF units ( that I personally never, ever bother with.. )

in the meantime, if they are that important to you.....add them yourself with MOBHack...that's why we put it with the game

Re: Minor issues
 

That would be appreciated. Suppose it would be easy to add a new unit type with +10 exp and morale and name it as special forces or commandos. The usa propaganda unit is brainwashing you not to, that must be it!. I like to have variety, in ww2 there is more but spmbt is in more interesting era.

Russian list in mbt probably the most interesting.

I have found that exp and morale are really valuable in infantry vs infantry combat, especially morale in the system how this game works. Supressing units with suppress fire and assault them when they are routed.

Also, have some minor interest in why copter damage code is different than planes.

Justtrying to suggest how your game could be made better couse i really like it.

Shouldnt the downloadable version be cheaper than the cd version because there is no material expenses of the boxed set ?

Re: Minor issues
 

We will look at the armoured copter code

Re: Minor issues
 

Suppose its in a code of all copters.

The armoured ones are just harder to damage as it should be.

Re: Minor issues
 

I ran a number of tests and all show damage IS cumulative when armoured Helos are hit.

This is my last test and it is typical of the others

HIT

HIT

HIT ( 3 damage)

HIT ( 8 damage)

HIT

HIT

HIT ( 9 damage)

HIT

HIT ( 13 damage )

HIT ( 16 damage ) = crash

there were no examples of damage from hits that showed less damage after a series of hits...the numbers always grew, never shrank. The "problem" is it took 10 Stinger hits to bring that helo down and only half of them caused damage and something with a HE pen of 4 should do better on a target with a 2 armour rating so this is now on the list to investigate in the autumn when we start work on the game again.

Thinking in this case because we have to use HE pen for that weapon the effects on the "armoured" helo isn't what it should be....even though that weapon has a 4 HE pen rating the calculator ( which uses game code ) shows an HE pen of 1 but a best of 7 and it's more likely to give the former rather than the latter which explains why half the hits did no damage as 1 does nothing on something with 2 armour.

OTOH......hits on a target helo with only 1 armour WOULD show damage with each hit

Re: Minor issues
 

1. Since the Hind was your primary complaint I will write that the Hind is so heavy that it cannot fly Nap-of-the-Earth at higher speeds like other attack helicopters. Common doctrine is a straight run at the target and shallow bank away at higher altitude. In Afghanistan their ceiling made them unable to fly over many of the mountain heights and they had to fly down the valleys. Mujaheddin tactics were to climb the heights and fire RPGs at the as they passed. They considered the Hind's only weak spot as the tail rotor and aimed to try and hit there.
Speed and altitude records attained by the Hind were set by a special stripped down model.

2. Pass, no experience with that.

3. ROK Special Forces have been specialized for Guerrilla warfare. At first alert, they will deploy to selected areas and wait for the invasion to pass and then conduct partisan type operations. While they have created a world wide deployment brigade the game's war in Korea scenarios have not focused on them.

4. If it is evading it is no longer stationary but it's movement has not taken it out of the hex. The simplest example is a hull down tank on a hill that spots the back-blast of the ATGM launch and/or spots the missile in flight (20-21 seconds flight time to max range for a TOW) and simply backs up 10 feet till it disappears behind the crest of the hill. After the missile misses, it can drive back forward and engage the launch area with HE.

Re: Minor issues
 

Hmm

Re: Minor issues
 

Recently faced some Saudi Apache helicopters, and definitely noticed the odd HIT (no damage) / HIT (some damage) ratio. This applied to stingers and to ATGM firing at stationary helos.

Love the game. Play too much.

Re: Minor issues
 

I have always accepted a Hit/No Damage on AA Missiles to be a factor of how many are designed.

Generally speaking, many AA missiles aim to get ahead of the target and burst a cloud of shrapnel the A/C has to travel thru. At end of flight or if the seeker calculates it is not going to intercept it will self detonate at closest range to target. The most basic form of ECM is for a target to boost a radar signal to an approaching radar guiding missile and then reduce the signal to make the missile seeker to believe it had missed the target and trigger a self destruct.
I accept a Hit/No Damage to be a burst ahead of the target and there was no significant damage. Not specifically a contact hit on the target. That would be the Hit with lots of damage or single hit and target goes down.

Re: Minor issues
 

Black Berets are easy to create in the OOB. That is another reason I love this game, it is flexible.

Just pick a slot above 900 in the South Korean OOB and proceed to create a special forces formation.

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Re: Minor issues
 

Is it usable in the pbem games ?

Suppose it must be sent to opponent before the game. Im a little akward when editing games, afraid i break something. But that is a good idea, suppose there are some clear instructions somewhere to be found already ?

Actually i messed up the koreas, i ment the other one all along, the one with crazy militaristic goverment not the ones owning westerners in starcraft even they probably have some decent troops also and are supposedly very good with tech.

In the future warfare multitasking and apm skill might just be the thing when commanding multiple machines of war at once and issuing ai command protocols. Dont see a reason why one commander would not be able to command whole armies of drones.

Still think they should have better troops in the get go because probably have the most strict doctrine in the world right now.

Jp10 that would be one way to imagine it but still thinking anti air missiles are really more effective than in this game. Especially againt targets with no ew value and that armor thing have been stated as a bug so it does not currently work how the creators have intended.


There is also a issue of ai routes when u try to move apc near water, for some reason it takes a priority to drive in water and stop moving. Suppose this happens if vehicle is amphibious.

Re: Minor issues
 

Yes, I believe you may play PBEM with user created formations without sending the OOB, as long as the OOB contains the native units and weapons.

I suggest that you copy the Ranger formation of the US Army OOB and then paste it into the Korean OOB in a slot above 900. You may have to edit of course the formation name, while modifying weapons, units, and experience/morale modifiers. Also be sure to change the Nation code from USA to Korea.

See this discussion from 2006:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=27569

You should check the manual as well for how to edit/save OOB files. Personally, I save OOBs by scenario in the custom folder. However, I urge you to check this forum and the manual.

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Re: Minor issues
 

Any changed OOBs will probably have to be shared with the PBEM opponent, as the checksum will differ. The OOB swapping utility makes this less of a hassle - check the game manual for that.

If you edit custom units in the scenario designer for a user-designed scenario or scenarios then there will not be any OOB issues in PBEM. You may then have to send the scenario(s) to the PBEM opponent if you are not player 1 though.

Re: Minor issues
 

Maybe its always been like that and might be hard to change but anyone find it strange that paratroopers are lost when dropping to a small lake ?

Wondering are there any additional benefits apart from +exp and +morale that is coming with the commando status ?

Made me wonder when algerian basic infantry is at same exp and morale than syrian commandos with similar weapon setup and algerian infantry is 20 pts and syrian commandos are at 30 pts.

Molotov seems also quite expensive for that cheap crap it ought to be.

Re: Minor issues
 

Here is a minor issue I have. Yes it is minor but it does exist for me.

I was used to seeing white, yellow, green color in the unit info text, for the vision of the unit. Now for some reason all Load Cost have colors too. Annoying as it is right below View and I have to pay more attention to it. (depending on the type of unit)

Re: Minor issues
 

Yeah, this game seems to be so customable that maybe there is some colorhack utility where u can arrange those as you like ?

Re: Minor issues
 

Because it's hard to swim when you drop out of the sky with 80 pounds of equipment and land in a lake and paras don't have a swim rating for the above reason.

The answers are in the game guide. After you read it you will know. The forum is not a shortcut. Load the GG.... press ctrl+F and type commando

Because the Syrian Basic exp and morale is in the mid to low 60's and Algeria is 10 points higher and Syrian commandos only get a 10 point boost......you do have a fascination with SF units don't you ?

That "cheap crap" can take out a tank and if it's all you have it can be worth the cost..which isn't as high as you seem to suggest

Re: Minor issues
 

Then I guess you need to pay more attention now then.

It is beyond my comprehension how showing load cost in green is in any way a problem for anyone but apparently, you are making it one but it's not going to change

EDIT..... Vision is only ever white or Yellow, never green so what's the problem ?

Re: Minor issues
 

Yeah but there are strange issues like the molotov being more ecpensive than a stachel charge (hizbollah) and same helicopter with two mgs costing the same than with 1 mg. Infantry with identical stats and equipment but more ammo for their bazooka both costing the same. Dont really matter though but the choices are obvious. Just made me feel strange between those.

Ah yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Minor issues
 

Love the white, green, red and yellow text, it's really helpful. Can we also use blue? :D

Re: Minor issues
 

A molotov is a flame weapon. Flame weapons are special in SP series games, in that they can ignore all armour - even if the target is an M1A2. Flame weapons also can make a fire in the impact hex that blocks LOS, spread smoke around the place. flame attacks are extra bad for the receiver's morale. Flame hexes are bad for other troops and can cause morale effects and possibly even casualties to troops that subsequently stick around in them. A molotov is a baby flamethrower. Flame weapons are extremely good anti-tank assault weaponry.

SSI made flame weapons special from SP1 - and players soon realised so, and limbered up with cores made up of assault engineers with flamethrowers.

We have toned flame attacks down from the enthusiastic way they started out, but they still remain one of the best assault weapons. Even if they do not kill the tank, they usually rout or retreat it.

So the points calculator charges more for the molotov, since flame weaponry is double plus good.

Me - I try to avoid troops with molotovs since their use tends to block LOS for my supporting armour or ATG. other players still probably turn their core infantry into elite assault pioneers.

And sachel charges are not particularly much use - they are a simple haversack of explosives after all with just canvas round it. So if dropped in the open, some blast is about all you will get dissipating rapidly, with no shrapnel value other than any loose pebbles lying about. The things do not even have the metal heads of the several grenades in a Geballte Ladung bundle. They were designed to be poked through a bunker's slit with the fortification walls providing the blast reflector "tamping".

Re: Minor issues
 

Oh - and if you have a query about points costs for particular units, then post that in the TO&E thread, after reading the sticky message on "error reporting procedure" at the top first.

But the main thing we usually find when we get a complaint about x weapon is cheaper than Y but "has the same/more ammo" - the "cheaper" one may have several HE rounds and the expensive one more HEAT or AP. HE is cheaper than HEAT and AP (which usually doubles as HEAT for bazokoids as they substitute HEAT as AP ammo for weapons that are not in slot 1 - only weapon slot 1 can have HEAT, as explained in the Mobhack help, which gives more detail than the Game Guide wrt mechanics, specifically the 222 code in this case).

Re: Minor issues
 

Same weapon same ammo type.

Re: Minor issues
 

You are certainly in a good mood.
Vision is only ever in white or yellow and never green? I seem to remember being green when it is 50 or higher.
Perhaps I am color blind after all these years.

Re: Minor issues
 

Yes, it does turn green at 50 I overlooked that point as none of the units I checked had 50....the point remains..... how does this get to be a problem for you?.....it doesn't bother me at all I look at this and... think , OK 50 vision and load of 50.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1532111316

what is the problem??

one line is for TI/GSR and the other load cost I still don't know how that can be an issue for anyone

Re: Minor issues
 

Which is why it is a minor problem and not something affecting everyone.

The problem for me is that where I would normally glance over there to check the view, now the green is always there so I always have to check more carefully.
BTW, out of curiosity, why is the load line now always green? I mean, why a different color to start with?

Re: Minor issues
 

Guess its for ppl who travel a lot between the lists in the army building menu. Might open and close it tens of times in a day and sometimes browsing through hundreds of units. When doing that fast its easy when the different color pops to ur eye looking one entry no more than second or two. Its the most looked up statistic when arranging travel groups and in the past i have made a mistake that my troops wont fit to their rides. Never have made that mistake when the load cost is highlighted in each entry.

Actually im not sure was load cost mentioned in the entries back then at all, u just had to suppose it was the same as number of bodies in that unit and sometime it was not.

Yesterday i thought that it would be nice to alter the year inside the army building screen but that would be too much and mix things for some ppl letting them mix units from different timelines. But in yesterday for example, when i was looking through units i think i closed and opened that screen hundreds of times to change the year.

I suppose thats the reason.

Re: Minor issues
 

Because that line did not exist prior to 2018.It was made green to bring attention to the info it provides when loading units into other units primarily guns / mortars into transport becasue previous to this change there was no clear way to know ( unless someone actually reads the game guide ) that gun load cost is the weight of the gun PLUS the number of crewmen but that green highlight extends to all units becasue that's the way that code is set up.

V11
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1532139001

V12

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1532139050

so it's not a case of "why is the load line now always green"...... there was no " load cost" line before this year....now there is and it's green

Re: Minor issues
 

ok...I still don't like it (color) but fine. Thanks for the reply.

EDIT: To clarify, it's not the addition of the information I don't like, but the use of a color which is used to give emphasis to the information which IMO is not needed (the emphasis) while being right next to other bit of valuable information which can also take the same color depending on its information.
I am glad I clarified it. :p

Re: Minor issues
 

Not sure but load cost is new think it’s green normally but changes if you try buying a formation with vehicles it won’t load in.
Formation with a choice of several guns and several towing vehicles, not all vehicles can tow all guns, WWll German ATG formation as an example.

Re: Minor issues
 

Well I certainly like the change and the color so thank you!

Re: Minor issues
 

and that has been fixed so when you purchase only the transports that can carry it will be offered.......BUT, if you are mid game and lost that transport now you know how much capacity you need to move to your gun to get it to where you want it now..previously you had to guess or add it up....more of an issue with Hvy Mortars and guns and ATG's but it adds a bit more info for players to use......but it also proves the old adage "you can't make everyone happy"

Re: Minor issues
 

Just to make something clear. I have no problem with having the information. I rarely use it, but I am fine with it. My issue is with the color, not the info. The green color in that part of that "screen" was till now just the color that you could easily and quickly see if the vision of the unit was at least 50.

Re: Minor issues
 

Yes I UNDERSTAND what you are saying and I STILL do not agree with it

0.0065885986359542 units in MBT have vision >49 so if you quickly glance and see green it WON"T be TI/GSR you are seeing unless you see two lines of green.

I am done discussing this and so are you.