Ammo resupply
 

Is it possible to stop a unit re-ammoing a weapon? E.g. say it has two MGs slot one has ammo but slot two none. Tried turning of fire for one but it made no difference?

Re: Ammo resupply
 

Ammo is resupplied to each weapon in turn, HE ammo, then AP, then SABOT and/or HEAT (if weapon slot 0). Once full, it proceeds to the next weapon slot till weapon slot 3.

So you must wait till weapon 0 is filled up and then weapon 1 will eventually start to get its ammo replenished.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

OK so no. In any future upgrade would it be worth or even could it be done that turning of a weapon also stops it from re-arming?

Re: Ammo resupply
 

Why would you not want to rearm a weapon in the first place?

Re: Ammo resupply
 

I can see some situations where for example you don't want to waste turns filling up your rifle ammo instead of secondary or tertiary (MG or Explosive) weapon slots. That being said, I don't think it is worth spending time trying to incorporate this to the game code. We, as players, have already too much of an advantage over AI such as selective weapon slot firing, limiting fire to shorter ranges and being able to buy and use ammo storage/trucks when it comes to ammo management. So I personally don't mind the current mechanic.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

Reality. Men with an empty weapon are going to want ammo. If it's not possible so-be-it.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

Did I misunderstand the initial question?

Re: Ammo resupply
 

I don't kmow, did you?

My initial question was can you re-arm a specific weapon. The answer was no, it's done in slot order. I next asked if some future upgrade could do it by turning of a weapon, as you do for stopping it firing. It reality a man without bullets for the weapon would not be a happy bunny if ammo went to another man who still had it.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

The game gives the human a cheat over the AI with ammo units.

Ammo units will supply any ammo type (ie not smoke, that is not ammo) whether the unit requires a SAM or pistol ammo or anything in between. All available in a pigeonhole in the back of the ammo truck - totally unrealistic.

Now It could be made super-duper complicated for humans:
- We could make you have to decide what ammo an ammo unit carried at game startup. (please tell me what sort of UI you would like for that)
- We could let you bypass the default order of weapon slot and ammo ranking (Again, please do let me know what sort of UI you would like for that)

Of course that would mess up any existing scenarios where the AI has something parked by an ammo bunker as that is the only way the AI gets to use the things. The AI of course does not know how to ask for a SAM...

And ammo truck usage seems to be a problem to many end users, who tend not to read the Game Guide and/or come to these forums. Any of the above would likely cause more connuptions for these users.

So, no there wont be any changes to the abstraction that ammo units already are. They is what they is, and that's that.

(Though I may in some future update remove the ability for resupply while the supplied unit is actually firing - something I have been meaning to get round to but never quite had the time.)

Re: Ammo resupply
 

Is it about not refilling a units weapon slot, in the hope, that all involved units will be ready for use sooner?

Yes I guess then I did not understand it correctly, I wondered why you would like to prevent the reloading of an arms weapon slot. The only reason I can think of, would be "military force decomposition".

Seriously, I do not know if supplying the troops altogether goes faster when half of their weapon slots are closed. At least I would not take it for granted.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

Maybe what should be asked is how the ammo issue became one in the first place. If we take a look at a screenshot from the classic film about weapon's procurement called "A Christmas Story" we can clearly see how a problem with ammunition loading and the time required to load up and get back in the fight could be avoided in the first place.

Attachment 15743
In this shot we see Ralphie being asked by our friends the ammunition handlers, "What brought you to this lowly state?"

His reply, "It, it, it was, poor tactics."


On the other hand, for those of us who have been in the military or know about it, maybe the SNCO's were right all along about where our troubles REALLY lurk...

Attachment 15744

Re: Ammo resupply
 

My three cents is to just leave the ammo resupply the way it is (sans Andy's possible one fix at some future date) and just live with it.

My job as scenario creator is already complicated enough with out having to bother about what specific ammo's are in the creates.

My imagination is fine when I drop some ammo 'stuff' for the AI or human next to whatever weapon systems I drop them near to for that purpose.

Again my 3 cents worth...

Re: Ammo resupply
 

I think that is a good and clever / simple idea that turning the weapon off enables the reloading. The ammo types however are as said, too specific in my opinion.

I have been thinking myself would it be possible that artillery units reload the weapons at the same time if there are many artillery pieces in the same unit but have not mentioned it because i thought it too minor and complicated.

There are too much ammo to be had in the army as often i continue to send artillery barrages in the same time they are reloading their ammo. This gives advantage for units that have only one artillery weapon over those that have many, as they are only giving ammo to one at a time. All the munition units are always reloading non stop, from the opening salvo to the end of battle.

In case of rocket launchers i have noticed the reloading overlaps for some reason and i have also been wondering would it be possible for reloading to work for other artillery units in the same way. At least if the reloaded ammo types and weapons are the same in each reloadable slot for example, in a case of 2x80mm mortar team.

Suppose that is because a rocket launcher is a single unit with multiple weapon pads and a combined mortar team is a single group with multiple weapon teams ?

I suppose when thinking like that it makes sense how that works as it is.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

In my view, ammo resupply is a bit of a luxury, and in many cases probably not accurately modelling reality. What I mean is, that for the US then yes, you would expect very capable logistics (for every fighting man at the front there were another 10 or so backing him up). Yet for the Russians, the ratio of combat soldiers to support was almost the opposite, meaning that they basically carried into battle what they had and just got on with it, with little hope of resupply whist fighting. The duration of a "push" was constrained by what we call a "logistical brake" and it occurred all along the Eastern Front. Even the Western Allies despite all their sophisticated supply options ground to a halt from time to time.

So what does all this mean in the context of a small to medium action simulation in SPWW2? Each scenario is modelling at most a few hours of battle in real time, and it is difficult to imagine that all units would have had access to unlimited ammo resupply. Some self propelled artillery would have had access to ammunition carriers, but even these carriers had their limitations and would have to return to rear areas to load up and then return to the battle and the SPG they were serving. An example is the ISU 152 with a typical ammo loadout of 13 HE rounds and 7 AP rounds. In the game it is 10 of each. The vehicles were deployed with ammo carriers for obvious reasons, even though it was hazardous and logistically clumsy.
So what to do about ammo resupply? Taking the following into consideration:
1) Off map artillery is limited and cannot be resupplied,
2) Air strikes cannot be resupplied,
3) On map units may be infinitely resupplied,
4) The simple solution is to remove ammo resupply entirely and perhaps compensate units like the ISU 152 with a higher ammo loadout to simulate ammo carriers.
5) Limit resupply to some units only where historically appropriate,
6) Remove mobile ammo carriers entirely, but retain ammo dumps,
7) Introduce a new class of ammo carrier that is limited in how much ammo it can carry, and that can resupply itself at an ammo dump,
8) Do nothing and leave the game as it is, and let individual commanders decide how "historically accurate" they want their battles to be.
9) In any case, the tactical use of force multipliers is an issue for all commanders, especially ammo when limited, and a good commander will use what s/he has to hand, in the most effective (and economical) way.
Happy battles!
Gelainey

Re: Ammo resupply
 

Its got to be down to the player as the situation varies, if you really wanted to be historical most German Artillery should fire a maximum of one or 2 fire missions per battle from 1944. They were normally very limited in ammo and would therefore require a prime target to use it. Kursk however I bet both sides had huge stocks and some tubes would have used their service life in that battle.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

As someone once commented, by the time you need ammo the game is usually already decided.

Re: Ammo resupply
 

The ammo resupply is useful for some SP artillery units as they tend to carry low qty of ammo.

But yes, I tend to buy ammo dump if I expect to use arty throughout the fight. If its a low visibility battle, I tend to forgo the ammo resup as my artillery is rarely used.