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Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

I was wondering if anyone has done a scenario for the Siege of Jadotville?

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

If they have it's not in the game. Assuming you own the full version open up ScenHack and goto the search tab and enter a simple text string like

ville

scenario 0172 - 172 Dragon Rouge, Congo 1964 <<< stanleyville, belgium congo* >>>
scenario 0400 - USMC Alpha 1/6 Marjeh 1200h <<< jacksonville, nc crew of 2* >>>
scenario 0473 - Red Dawn: Covering Force 9/88 <<< battle location: rossville, texas* >>>

Jadotville has been brought up though on this forum but only in the context of the movie made about it

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Yeah, I bought the full version. I was hoping someone had done a scenario based on the battle.

Maybe we need a challenge or something for the African Wars to get a good push for scenarios and such...just ideas as I wander around the game and trying to get all my OLD scenarios converted over and keep the older SP2 games running with DOSBox, which hates me right now.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

A Jadotville scenario idea was floated years ago, but IIRC back then it was difficult to figure out many details on the Irish OOB, including what small arms were used...

There are a few Africa scenarios in the game. Scen 261 is a small but history based scenario set in the 1960s Katanga...

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karagin (Post 847201)

From the old Cyberstrategie:

Quote:

LES IRLANDAIS DE JADOTVILLE*
*
Avance des mercenaires katangais*
_________contre*
_____Retard de l'ONU*
*
Date : 13 septembre 1961*
Site : Jadotville - Katanga*
*
Depuis le 12 septembre, le Major belge Moreau assiege une compagnie irlandaise avec des ‚lements de la gendarmerie katangaise. Apres le declenchement de Morthor, des renforts sous la direction du capitaine francais Lasimone lui sont envoyes. Le seul
avion
de combat des Forces A‚riennes Katangaises, un Fouga-Magister pilot‚ par le capitaine belge Deulin et base … Kolwezy, effectua plusieurs missions de straffing. Finallement, le 17 septembre, l'eau ayant ‚t‚ coup‚e depuis trois jours, il se rendirent au
Ministre de l'Interieur Godfroid Munongo.

Quote:

JADOTVILLE IRISHES *
*
Advance of Katangese mercenaries *
_________against*
_____ UN delay *
*
Date: September 13, 1961 *
Site: Jadotville - Katanga *
*
Since September 12, the Belgian Major Moreau besieges an Irish company with elements of the Katangese gendarmerie. After the triggering of Morthor, reinforcements under the direction of the French captain Lasimone are sent to him. The only
plane
of combat of the Katangaise Air Forces, a Fouga-Magister piloted by the Belgian captain Deulin and based in Kolwezy, carried out several straffing missions. Finally, on September 17, the water having been cut for three days, they went to the
Minister of the Interior Godfroid Munongo.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Hey KARANGIN...

would you mind posting all your old scenarios or collected SP2 scenarios?

A lot of older stuff was "lost to the mists of time" because 1997-2005 is now about 20-25 years in the past; and many sites were hosted on places now gone.

Even "stable" things like The Wargamer's Scenario Archives have gone POOF -- despite the Wargamer still existing -- the scenario archives got "lost" in the turnover of administrators and upgrades of the site -- we've seen a lot of changes over 20 years in the technology of the internet.

EDIT: Back in 2016, someone tried to save some of the Old Wargamer Scenario Archives -- he was able to save metadata for all 4,833 scenarios, but could only actually save 1,449 scenarios.

https://archive.org/details/Wargamer...ve20160514.tar

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

This post contains the old Cyberstratege SP2 "Affreux" African scenario pack with modified SP2 OOBs.

It's basically a 14-scenario pseudo campaign that starts with "The Irish of Jadotville" and ends with a scenario on The battle of Kolweizi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kolwezi

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Note that the link above is where I pulled out the 100 or so SPMBT scenarios and one CG along with about 20 or so WW2 and 2 CG and these (sans the 2 WW2 CG) are already in the game.

For either game use Scenhack and the last tab search for “missing and lost” and you’ll find all the scenarios I salvaged.

Note: it’s a real pain in the butt to fix and recover old lost scenarios and in my opinion it is just better to rebuild them from scratch. I say this due to my experience with trying to resurrect over 120 scenarios and 3 CG. There are 2 CG and about 5-10 scenarios that I could not salvage or repair.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

So my bottom line is if you think you found something lost, double check Scenhack, I most likely already have found it and converted it. I also salvaged what I could from those old yahoo groups.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard (Post 847368)

It doesn't feel like 25 years have gone by...I will dig up what I can find. I am searching hard drives and CDs...

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

The film is on Netflix...

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard (Post 847368)

Hey KARANGIN...

would you mind posting all your old scenarios or collected SP2 scenarios?

Okay, I found a large number of older scenarios. A lot of the ones found are for SP1 and SP2 as well as the way early versions of the what we have now. I would love to convert them all over to the current format, maps included. I can share what I have once I figure out what is there. I will break things down into games and maps for each.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

OK, maybe I could just do Jadotville? I will use Green OOB and set it as Irish, I do have general idea how it worked like.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaS TrooP (Post 847434)

OK, maybe I could just do Jadotville? I will use Green OOB and set it as Irish, I do have general idea how it worked like.

I could rebuild the old Cyberstratege Scenario. :angel

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Certainly, that would allow you to show how all the work you have done can be applied

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

OK, So here's how you do it:

(I'm up to version 2.6 now):

SP_Unified_Dumper_v2-6.exe

Quote:

################################################## ###########
SELECT GAME TO DUMP SCENARIOS FOR
################################################## ###########
1.) Dump Steel Panthers I
2.) Dump Steel Panthers II: Modern Battles
################################################## ###########
3.) Dump SPCAMO WW2/MBT (Version 3.0+)
4.) Partial CSV Load into SPCAMO WW2/MBT (Version 3.0+
################################################## ###########

Quote:

################################################## ###########
SELECT SCENARIO FOLDER TO INSPECT
################################################## ###########
0. Stock SSI SP2 Scenarios
1.) --Campaign A: Korea 1950
2.) --Campaign B: Golan Heights 1973
3.) --Campaign C: Germany 1980
4.) --Campaign D: Desert Storm 1991
5.) --Campaign E: China War 1997
6.) --Campaign F: Korea 1998
7.) --Campaign G: Okinawa 1998
8.) --Campaign H: B.E.F. 1999
9.) --Campaign I: Rhineland 1999
10) --Campaign J: Bulge 1999
-----------------------------------
11.) Libya 1998 Campaign (repl. Okinawa 1998)
12.) CyberStratege Bosnia 1999 Campaign
13.) CyberStratege Chad 2002 Campaign
14.) CyberStratege Falklands 1982 Campaign
-----------------------------------
15.) Western Scenarios
16.) European Scenarios
17.) Middle East Scenarios
18.) Asian Scenarios
19.) South America/Africa Scenarios
20.) IDF Pack
21.) Team YANKEE Pack
-----------------------------------
22.) CyberStratege Affreux Pack
23.) CyberStratege Albania Pack
24.) CyberStratege Indochina Pack
25.) CyberStratege SP2 Pack
-----------------------------------
26.) SP2WW2 (v1) Cyberstrategie Pack
27.) SPWW2 (v2) Cyberstrategie Pack
-----------------------------------
28.) USER SCENARIOS
29.) USER CAMPAIGNS

Quote:

Scenario Pack Selected!
#0: Les irlandais de Jadotville : (SCEN100.DAT)
#1: E'ville, l'O.N.U. attaque : (SCEN101.DAT)
#2: Lima 1 franchit la Lufubu : (SCEN102.DAT)
#3: En route vers Kindu ! : (SCEN103.DAT)
#4: Ops "Dragon Rouge" : (SCEN104.DAT)
#5: La colonne Muller : (SCEN105.DAT)
#6: Avertisseent a Idi Amin Dada : (SCEN106.DAT)
#7: L'ex-camp de la Force Publique : (SCEN107.DAT)
#8: Zorro 1, Ops Violette Imperiale : (SCEN108.DAT)
#9: Aramis, Ops Violette Imperiale : (SCEN109.DAT)
#10: La revolte des "Affreux" : (SCEN110.DAT)
#11: La prise de Bukavu : (SCEN111.DAT)
#12: La fin des "Affreux" : (SCEN112.DAT)
#13: Le 2e Rep saute sur Kolwezy : (SCEN113.DAT)

Select 0.

Quote:

This is a compressed SP2 Scenario File!
Analyzing DUMP\SCEN100.DAT for decompression...
Unpacking Critical Scenario Sections....
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
Sections Unpacked and ready for editing....

-----------------------
FILE CORRECTLY DUMPED.
-----------------------

DONE WITH EVERYTHING! WAITING FOR YOUR INPUT

In my latest updates, I changed operation slightly so that everything is now dumped into:

\DUMP

to keep things neat and clean.

So in the directory, we now see:

Quote:

S17_COMP_ORIGINAL.BIN
S17_UNCOMPRESSED.BIN
S1_COMP_ORIGINAL.BIN
S1_UNCOMPRESSED.BIN
S34_COMP_ORIGINAL.BIN
S34_UNCOMPRESSED.BIN
S35_COMP_ORIGINAL.BIN
S35_UNCOMPRESSED.BIN
S37_COMP_ORIGINAL.BIN
S37_UNCOMPRESSED.BIN
SCEN100.CMT
SCEN100.DAT
SCEN100.TXT
SP2_Cyber_Affreux_100.DAT_Bombard.csv
SP2_Cyber_Affreux_100.DAT_Briefing.txt
SP2_Cyber_Affreux_100.DAT_Formations.csv
SP2_Cyber_Affreux_100.DAT_Leaders.csv
SP2_Cyber_Affreux_100.DAT_Scenario_Data.csv
SP2_Cyber_Affreux_100.DAT_Units.csv
SP2_Cyber_Affreux_100.DAT_VLOCs.csv

The BIN files are basically from the decompression process for compressed scenario files; the SCEN100.* files are the original files from the ZIP archive.

The .txt and CSV files are the analyzed files.

Because it's a compressed SP2 scenario, we can load it in WW2Map.exe via:

1.) Start WW2MAP
2.) Load CLRWW2v3.DAT (premade blank version 3 SPCAMO map)
3.) CONVERT ->WW2 2.x Map

and select SCEN100.DAT in the DUMP directory.

I've saved it as "JadotvilleMAP.dat" and a copy of it as "spmap999.dat".

A special set of SP2 OOBs shipped with the Affreux pack on the CyberStratege CDROM, and I loaded them up (and the original SP2 Scen) in SP2 in DOSBOX.

Irish are shown as having:

Inf Squads
M1 Rifles
Madsen LMGs

SMG Squads
Madsen SMGs

Machine GUns:
7.62mm Madsen MMGs
Madsen SMGs

Congolese/Belgian Forces are shown as having:

Katangis FAL
FN-FAL
FN-MAG LMG
FN BAR Type D

Katangis SAFN
SAFN Rifle
FN BAR Type D
FN BAR Type D

Mercenaries are shown as:

Scouts
FN-FAL
FN-MAG LMG

Mercenarie FAL
FN-FAL
FN-MAG LMG
FN-MAG LMG
Rifle Grenade

The Fouga Magister has:
7.62mm F1 Machine Gun
2 x 5 inch rockets

So let's start by looking at the basic scenario data:

I popped into MOBHACK to see what's what.

RANDOM THOUGHT: It occurred to me that OBAT80 - United Nations would be a good place to put a few Irish units, since all of their actions in the modern era have been peacekeeping?

Anyway, investigating further on Wikipedia:

Ireland had a total of 24 Madsen machine guns, all in .303 calibre. They armed the Irish army's Landsverk L60 light tanks, Leyland Armoured Cars, Landsverk L180 armoured cars, and Dodge Armoured Cars. In the 1950s .30 Browning machine guns replaced the Madsens still in Irish service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern...the_Irish_Army

M2 HB - IOC 1970s
FN-MAG - IOC 1964

https://forum.irishmilitaryonline.co...hp/t-1949.html

Apparently the Bren LMG was in use with the Irish Army from 1940 onward, with Bren Mark III being purchased in 1955.

https://forum.irishmilitaryonline.co...hp/t-1255.html

Says Irish snipers had No.4 Mk1(T) Enfields, and then a FAL with 4x scope and then Accuracy International Rifles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_m/45

Seems the Spedish K (Carl Gustaf m/45) SMG was used by Ireland.

Siege at Jadotville: The Irish Army’s Forgotten Battle By Declan Power says:

Irish Weapons:
9mm Browning Automatic Pistol (BAP)
FN FAL
Bren Gun
Carl Gustaf SMG

Interview says

Quote:

What armoured cars and weapons did you have at Jadotville?

We had two World War II armoured cars that had been homemade in Ireland that carried a Vickers machine gun in each of them. The weapons that the private soldier would have had were FN rifles. These were Belgian and had been issued to us just prior to us leaving Ireland. They were reasonably modern.

We also had 81mm mortars but these were the ones that were left behind and never arrived so we had 60mm mortars. They had a shot range of about a mile and we had about four 84mm anti-tank guns. The officers and NCOs equipment included Gustav sub-machine guns with a range of about 100 yards and Webley revolvers, which were pretty ancient at that stage.

So that was our main armament. We had no mines, barbed wire or trip flares or anything like that for a proper defensive situation.

I ended up doing this scenario by hand, using the advanced scenhack editor and the CLONE UNIT feature in the built in editor. Not every conversion needs it, particularly if it's a simple scenario like Jadotville.

I'm not quite sure how well it works, but here we go:

Quote:

The Irish of Jadotville *
*
Advance of Katanga *
_________against*
_____ Irish delay *
*
Date: September 13, 1961 *
Site: Jadotville - Katanga *
*
On 11 July 1960, the Republic of Katanga declared it's independence from Congo; the secession being backed by the Union Minière du Haut Katanga, a Belgian mining company.*
*
The Katangese state quickly proceeded to raise an army -- the Katanga Gendarmerie -- with the training efforts of Belgian military advisors and mercenaries of various nationalities.*
*
UN Security Council Resolutions passed in the summer of 1960 provided for a peacekeeping force to be deployed to the Congo/Katanga region.*
*
In September 1961, a contigent of 155 Irish Troops (A Company) arrived in the mining town of Jadotville, from whence the Uranium that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan in 1945 had come from.*
*
On the morning of 13 September 1961, the Katangese attacked while the Irish were attending an open air mass. The subsequent five day battle lasted until 17 September, when the Irish were forced to surrender, low on ammunition, food and water. Subsequently, the Irish were held as prisoners for a month before being released as part of a prisoner exchange with the Congo government.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Well it loads. The maps are a bit odd in that they are only using the first few flat tiles but that can be fixed but at first glance, it's great that something like that could be resurrected for this version of the game...... Great Job but it's a bit odd it's done as a battle against the Irish

Maybe someone can do a AAR

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Thanks! I will give it ago over the next couple of days!

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

So where does one get SP_Unified_Dumper_v2-6.exe?

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 847441)

Great Job but it's a bit odd it's done as a battle against the Irish

I might redo it as a version 2.0

There's a lot of information now available on the intertubes that wasn't available in 1997.

Likasi (Jadotville/Jadotstad) original scale 1:12,500, Edition 1-DMA, Series Z901. U.S. Defense Mapping Agency, 1980. (9.8MB)

Showing that the map design isn't as crazy as originally intended.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

So some information shows that a whole new map will have to be done.

It actually took place outside of Jadotville proper; in something like Rourke's Drift in ZULU!

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Another map and some images of Ford Mk VI ACs being loaded onto C-133s for the trip to the Congo and then operational in the Congo.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

I think I found where it took place in reference to the Army Map from using the clues:

Golf Course Road
+Railroad line
+location of Jadotville

The red area is where I think it took place.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Found a 1954 map overlay of the region explaining things further:

LINK -- South Africa 1:250,000 Series Z501, U.S. Army Map Service, 1954-

Explaining things further.

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Aha, here we are.

<longitude>26.75925071387533</longitude>
<latitude>-10.98865051687737</latitude>

Is roughly where it took place

Spinning to 28 June 2005 in Google Earth gets me this view:

https://i.imgur.com/xK70Til.png

That matches up (especially the ridge!) with this drawing

https://i.imgur.com/NietIxZ.jpg

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

So here's how to make a custom map using WW2Map's "IMPORT" feature.

Go find where you want to make a map of in Google Earth, and draw a line measurement tool about 50m to help you get the pixel scaling.

Proceed to do some calculations:

https://i.imgur.com/GjLpznN.gif

In photoshop or paint shop pro, draw on a second layer various features of interest.

https://i.imgur.com/dbjVMzV.jpg

For the Terrain Import feature of WW2 Map:

Color Triplets R, G, B combined gets you a specific color.

GREEN = amount above 155 is the % of tree coverage.
RED = Amount above 155 is % of roughness?

Here's the Import Map attached to this post.

###############

To use the import feature:

LOAD MAP -> CLRWW2v3.DAT (loads blank SPCAMO map)

TOOLS -> import from bitmap

load bmp (load your bitmap with stuff laid out)

Set the conversion scale to (10, 10) pixels/hex

Push TER CONVERT

Close import window.

Save your map.

Copy your map into the SPCAMO MBT Maps directory and load it in the map editor.

https://i.imgur.com/tNNOZJC.png

I need to do some editing, but this allows you to lay out the general "area" of a map quickly and accurately, without having to "hex count".

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

I spoke too soon. Apparently it's not perfect, because as soon as you try to edit it in SPCAMO...it becomes all messy. :-(

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

There's only one solution:

Write my own map modification software. :shock:

I actually do have experience in this; since a few years back, I wrote a map dumper/repacker for War in the Pacific Admiral's edition:

https://i.imgur.com/65psF4e.png

Re: Siege of Jadotville has anyone done a scenario on this

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard (Post 847464)

War in the Pacific Admiral's edition:

Great game!