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-   -   Question: PBEM Fail Problem (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=52424)

Felix Nephthys April 29th, 2020 12:53 AM
PBEM Fail Problem
 
1 Attachment(s)
So I'm playing a PBEM scenario with another player and there seems to be problem (see the pic below). I am the Japan player and the person I'm playing against is the Great Britain player. At the start of turn 9 should I be worried that the other player may be engaging in a little cheating? I'm also wondering how I got 5 fails credited to me when I haven't had a single problem playing the scenario so far.Attachment 16019

sigeena April 29th, 2020 03:19 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
That's highly unusual. I would say that this community is quite matured (yes, old), and if it is an actual case of cheating, it's quite odd.

Otoh, could it just be a glitch? I don't really see any value in cheating. Playing single player against the AI is cheating. Playing PBEM is all about the suspense. I have enjoyed games when I was near losing, just to pull off a draw and it was alot more rewarding than steamrolling the uncomplaining AI.

Imp April 29th, 2020 04:03 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
That's very odd perhaps something is corrupted what turn are you actually on?

DRG April 29th, 2020 07:42 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Open the GG and read the PBEM Security Information "Loads quits and Fails" section.
Quote:
PBEM Security Information

During turn execution in secured PBEM games, press the 1 key to see statistics on how many loads , quits and FAILS of the game were done by both sides. If you have a crash, and have to load the game turn again from the received zip, let your opponent know you had this problem, as the load counter will be increased and a FAIL number will appear. If the loads and quits are not equal, perhaps your opponent is having severe technical difficulties?, ask him about this. However, you should also be aware that one reason for getting fail messages is he is playing out a turn over and over to get a better result. If you play someone who's games give fail messages regularly and seems to do no wrong while playing the game I would suggest you find a new opponent! Game crashes in WinSPWW2 are VERY,VERY RARE. The most likely reason for a FAIL number in this game now is your opponent is cheating. It IS possible to get confused and extract an old turns zip file and this is one very good reason to extract the zip when you get it and NOT save it in the PBEM folder!!

Loads quits and Fails


( This will appear on the bottom left of your screen when the game loads. You can press "1" anytime to review these numbers )

Loads is incremented each time you start your turn - including restarting a saved off turn in progress. Quits is incremented each time you press "end turn" OR when you press the up-arrow key to save a game in progress to continue later. if you save off a game in progress many times, this count will increment that many times. So if your opponent comes back with a high number of loads and quits for one turn, he is likely to be someone who plays the game in small "nibbles".

Your opponent's count of loads and quits should be equal. In your current turn, your load count will be 1 greater than the quit count, as you have not yet ended your turn or saved off to finish later.

The Quits counter will be less than the load count for your opponent if his game was stopped in mid execution of the program for some reason - a crash, power failure or whatever.

There is a third total - for Load Fails. If the game is reloaded and the code thinks this is the case, then the load failure count will be incremented. The load failure counter is the best check on reloads by your opponent. An occasional reason for this happening is likely to be a technical glitch. However, if this is happening continually, perhaps he is making multiple reload attempts to replay his turn. ( a polite way of saying he's cheating)

A warning message is displayed if the game thought your opponent had a load failure. NB - this is not 100% reliable if you are playing a secure PBEM on the same machine as your opponent, in the same folder, due to file inconsistencies. If you really need total security to play secure PBEM against someone on the exact same PC, it is therefore best to install another copy of the game in a differently-named folder (or on another hard drive). You each play in separate installations, with different file paths, and so the game code will find it easier to detect inconsistencies. In this case you will need to copy the game files from one installation to the other on change of player.



You only stated part of the problem. You wonder about the 5 fails credited to you but didn't question why he shows 413 fails?

Trying to imagine what two people did in a PBEM that would generate that many fails is impossible. As well you have 10 loads and 9 quits showing which is normal for the number of turns you have said you played...... but player 2 is only showing 3 loads and 3 quits along with the 413 fails.

If this was a game issue it would be reported constantly

Felix Nephthys April 29th, 2020 11:14 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imp (Post 847404)
That's very odd perhaps something is corrupted what turn are you actually on?
Turn 9 as I said.

Felix Nephthys April 29th, 2020 11:17 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG (Post 847406)
Open the GG and read the PBEM Security Information "Loads quits and Fails" section.
Quote:
PBEM Security Information

During turn execution in secured PBEM games, press the 1 key to see statistics on how many loads , quits and FAILS of the game were done by both sides. If you have a crash, and have to load the game turn again from the received zip, let your opponent know you had this problem, as the load counter will be increased and a FAIL number will appear. If the loads and quits are not equal, perhaps your opponent is having severe technical difficulties?, ask him about this. However, you should also be aware that one reason for getting fail messages is he is playing out a turn over and over to get a better result. If you play someone who's games give fail messages regularly and seems to do no wrong while playing the game I would suggest you find a new opponent! Game crashes in WinSPWW2 are VERY,VERY RARE. The most likely reason for a FAIL number in this game now is your opponent is cheating. It IS possible to get confused and extract an old turns zip file and this is one very good reason to extract the zip when you get it and NOT save it in the PBEM folder!!

Loads quits and Fails


( This will appear on the bottom left of your screen when the game loads. You can press "1" anytime to review these numbers )

Loads is incremented each time you start your turn - including restarting a saved off turn in progress. Quits is incremented each time you press "end turn" OR when you press the up-arrow key to save a game in progress to continue later. if you save off a game in progress many times, this count will increment that many times. So if your opponent comes back with a high number of loads and quits for one turn, he is likely to be someone who plays the game in small "nibbles".

Your opponent's count of loads and quits should be equal. In your current turn, your load count will be 1 greater than the quit count, as you have not yet ended your turn or saved off to finish later.

The Quits counter will be less than the load count for your opponent if his game was stopped in mid execution of the program for some reason - a crash, power failure or whatever.

There is a third total - for Load Fails. If the game is reloaded and the code thinks this is the case, then the load failure count will be incremented. The load failure counter is the best check on reloads by your opponent. An occasional reason for this happening is likely to be a technical glitch. However, if this is happening continually, perhaps he is making multiple reload attempts to replay his turn. ( a polite way of saying he's cheating)

A warning message is displayed if the game thought your opponent had a load failure. NB - this is not 100% reliable if you are playing a secure PBEM on the same machine as your opponent, in the same folder, due to file inconsistencies. If you really need total security to play secure PBEM against someone on the exact same PC, it is therefore best to install another copy of the game in a differently-named folder (or on another hard drive). You each play in separate installations, with different file paths, and so the game code will find it easier to detect inconsistencies. In this case you will need to copy the game files from one installation to the other on change of player.



You only stated part of the problem. You wonder about the 5 fails credited to you but didn't question why he shows 413 fails?

Trying to imagine what two people did in a PBEM that would generate that many fails is impossible. As well you have 10 loads and 9 quits showing which is normal for the number of turns you have said you played...... but player 2 is only showing 3 loads and 3 quits along with the 413 fails.

If this was a game issue it would be reported constantly
I've no idea why he shows 413, except I regularly get the message "Has your opponent restarted?" before I put in my password to start my turn. The explanation from my opponent is that he's playing on multiple machines.

Mobhack April 29th, 2020 12:49 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Secure PBEM must be played on the same machine.

Secure PBEM stores it's data on a database on the originating machine and not in the savegame file so it has to be played on the machine you started the session on. Otherwise you will get garbage reported as you have seen here.

If you need to play with someone who uses multiple machines for some reason, you will have to use regular PBEM.

if you require secure PBEM (say for a competition game) then both players must each choose one machine for the game and stick to that box for the secure game. So if your opponent is travelling and uses his laptop when away, he should have started the secure match on that one and not say, swapped back and forwards with his home machine and his laptop. Or use his home machine, and not play turns on his laptop when away from home.

DRG April 29th, 2020 01:19 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Yes, knowing right from the start he was trying to use multiple machines for secure PBEM would have been GOOD TO KNOW.......:doh:

From the GG

Quote:
Basic PBEM security was designed for people who, for one reason or the other, cannot complete a PBEM game without something causing a game halt be it altered OOB's or trying to play on two different machines
Secure PBEM must be played on only one machine, using the same OOB's as the opponent and in the same PBEM save slot

Ask whoever it is you are playing to decide which machine he wants to use or move to basic security

Also from the GG
Quote:
if you want ( or need ) to be able to play on two machines ........then BASIC security may be for you.

Felix Nephthys April 29th, 2020 02:08 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 847411)
Otherwise you will get garbage reported as you have seen here.
So this would account for why there are 5 fails listed for my side but there is still an accurate count of loads and quits for my side as well?

Mobhack April 29th, 2020 02:34 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Any secure game which is not properly played is toast. The statistics will be corrupted by at least one player's database being incorrect.

Are you using secure mode for some particular reason (eg competition)?. Otherwise - regular PBEM mode is good enough for friendly games. And it would allow your opponent, if he needs to work aay from home and use his laptop, to play turns while at the hotel rather than only when at home on weekends.

Felix Nephthys April 29th, 2020 02:44 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 847415)
Any secure game which is not properly played is toast. The statistics will be corrupted by at least one player's database being incorrect.

Are you using secure mode for some particular reason (eg competition)?. Otherwise - regular PBEM mode is good enough for friendly games. And it would allow your opponent, if he needs to work aay from home and use his laptop, to play turns while at the hotel rather than only when at home on weekends.
Well the game guide says "We HIGHLY recommend that if you have no problem playing regular secure PBEM to please continue doing so !" so that's just what I do, and since I don't personally know the person I'm playing I like that security.

DRG April 29th, 2020 03:59 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Nephthys (Post 847416)
Well the game guide says "We HIGHLY recommend that if you have no problem playing regular secure PBEM to please continue doing so !" so that's just what I do, and since I don't personally know the person I'm playing I like that security.
I understand the desire to maintain security but unless you can convince your opponent to only use one machine for your games or move to basic security so he can use multiple machines then what is happening falls under the "if you have no problem playing regular secure PBEM to please continue doing so" caveat..... you ARE having problems and the reason is that he's using two machines. Ask him to pick one and stick with that or both of you restart the game using Basic security mode.

RVPERTVS May 28th, 2020 01:19 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
I've been getting a lot of Fails in two secure PBEM games (so far) against a most trusted and honorable player. We've been using the same computers. It also reports Fails on my end.

On the other hand, is there any known issue playing PBEM v13-CD vs v13-DL? I have CD and my opponent DL. He can't open the files I send ("Save game failed to load !!"). We started with Secure PBEM, but after realizing we had different versions (both v13), I sent a basic security game with same results. I haven't had this issue playing CD vs CD.

Mobhack May 28th, 2020 03:46 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
by we are3 using the same computers - you mean you share a PC? - PBEM won't work on the same box!

CD and DL games should be able to PBEM. So something else is likely up - e.g. different versions of V13?.

If your opponent is using the same slot for multiple ongoing games then any PBEM is toast since the registry slot for both games will be getting out of whack. The slot used for a game must be the same througout the game - no loading other PBEM games into the same slot.

Secure PBEM is really for competitions etc., basic mode should suffice for friendly games.

DRG May 28th, 2020 04:22 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Andy, I think "We've been using the same computers" means each of them is only using one computer.

Question.......are you both using the same PBEM save slot. If he's only DL then it has to be one of the first 5

RVPERTVS May 28th, 2020 04:39 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 847617)
e.g. different versions of V13?.
I didn't know there were different versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG (Post 847619)
Andy, I think "We've been using the same computers" means each of them is only using one computer.
That's correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG (Post 847619)
Question.......are you both using the same PBEM save slot. If he's only DL then it has to be one of the first 5
Yes, we are. Slot 1

DRG May 28th, 2020 04:58 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVPERTVS (Post 847621)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 847617)
e.g. different versions of V13?.
I didn't know there were different versions.
There aren't. I suspect Andy meant one OOB might have been altered.

You say you know your opponent and trust him so try basic security and see if that works

RVPERTVS May 28th, 2020 09:53 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack (Post 847617)
If your opponent is using the same slot for multiple ongoing games then any PBEM is toast since the registry slot for both games will be getting out of whack. The slot used for a game must be the same througout the game - no loading other PBEM games into the same slot.
"No, this is all I've got going on. My (nearly completely random-***) guess is that the security feature doesn't like that my ancient Windows 8.1 doesn't store the game files in Program Files>Shrapnel Games>The Camo Workshop>WinSPWW2>PBEM Games. It insists on storing them in Users>User>AppData>Local>VirtualStore>Program Files>Shrapnel Games>The Camo Workshop>WinSPWW2>PBEM Games. Even though the game is located in the former location. Ask Andy about that, would you please?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG (Post 847622)
You say you know your opponent and trust him so try basic security and see if that works
That's the plan for our next battle. We just want to know what's wrong and contribute to the improvement of the game.

Mobhack May 28th, 2020 11:15 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Quote:
Program Files>Shrapnel Games>The Camo Workshop>WinSPWW2>PBEM Games
Please ead the manual section Game Installation - it is right at the start of the manual so it's easy to find!

Especially read the paragraph Windows Vista or Windows 7 installation!

You have a version of windows >=7 (8.1) so you should have installed following these instructions. Otherwise post XP windows versions will "manage" the files and folders in its own borked way as described in your post.

If you have an old installer then it will have the "program fioles" baked in - the solution is described in the manual paragraph noted above.

Your PBEM games are toast as the game manages stuff in its own folders, not the weird borked ones post-XP windows does. Hence failures to load, etc.

Unistall, rreinstall to the correct path outside the "mangled" program files hierarchy. Restart your PBEM games from scratch.

(NB installing to a folder outside of /program files will also make some other legacy games or applications work that "failed" to work post XP)

DRG May 29th, 2020 07:06 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

guess is that the security feature doesn't like that my ancient Windows 8.1 doesn't store the game files in Program Files>Shrapnel Games>The Camo Workshop>WinSPWW2>PBEM Games. It insists on storing them in Users>User>AppData>Local>VirtualStore>Program Files>Shrapnel Games>The Camo Workshop>WinSPWW2>PBEM Games. Even though the game is located in the former location. Ask Andy about that, would you please?"
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1590750016


Yes he is correct. His "ancient Windows 8.1 doesn't store the game files in Program Files"

And as Andy pointed out the GG does say don't install into Program files in any windows OS > Vista.

Early versions of the game installer pre vista did install to program files but we changed that and we changed that so long ago it's nearly forgotten about so "Did you install into Program files" is not the first thing we think about when things like this happen.

He need to re-install his game into C: and then you can both PBEM,

RVPERTVS May 29th, 2020 06:21 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Thank you gentlemen! Both issues have been sorted out now.

RVPERTVS June 2nd, 2020 11:17 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
1 Attachment(s)
It seems that the second issue has not been sorted out after all.

I'm player one, and the files I send are working properly: I can open them, and they ask for the other player's password as normal.

The issue is that the game is creating a third (.new) file in his PBEM folder (image attached), and he can´t open the files (Save game failed to load !!).

He's using Win10 (v13-DL) with the game installed to C:\Shrapnel Games\The Camo Workshop\winSPWW2. I'm using v13-CD.

Mobhack June 2nd, 2020 01:08 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
The .new file is nothing to do with us.

Which files are you sending? - should only be the .cmt and .dat files for the slot. If you are sending the pbemregistry - error - toasted!.

RVPERTVS June 2nd, 2020 01:27 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
I'm sending the proper files (.cmt & .dat) which work on my end. As I mentioned, his system is creating the .new file, and it's not allowing him to load the game.

Mobhack June 2nd, 2020 01:29 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Then the problem must be on his system, perhaps anti-virus?

RVPERTVS June 2nd, 2020 01:39 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
That's the first thing I asked him, but he swears that's not the problem. Perhaps he should double-check it.

Mobhack June 2nd, 2020 01:41 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Something at his end seems to be causing the problem, and anti-virus is often the cause of problems. The .new file is also suspicious of some sort of problem there too.

RVPERTVS June 2nd, 2020 01:51 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
He's using AVG antivirus. Does that ring any bell? He tried disabling it with no apparent effect.

Mobhack June 2nd, 2020 02:21 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
No idea about AVG.

DRG June 2nd, 2020 04:15 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Maybe this will help explain it. That file is NOT being generated by the game. And NO I have no idea what G-Suite does but it's obviously on his machine


Quote:

What is a NEW file?
A NEW file is a G-Suite file used by G-Suite programs, including Docs, Slides, Sheets, Forms, and Sites, to create a new blank file. It does not contain any actual information; instead, it is used as a link that can be typed into a web browser to create a new blank G-Suite file that can be edited and saved by the appropriate G-Suite application.

Mobhack June 2nd, 2020 04:40 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Are you sending your pair of files to him compressed (zip, rar whatever)?

If so - what is he using to uncompress the files?. We did have a case a decade or more back where one guy was using some sort of unzip utility that did not properly service zips made by whatever the sender was using. When both used the same freeware zip utility, then end of problem.

If it is some random google app, or the Windows filesystem (which thinks it knows about zip files, and tries to show them as folders... ) rather than a properly designed compression utility like 7zip, winzip etc then that could be the problem.

If you are not sending the files compressed, but as simple email attatchments - then google mail and other email checker things can bork the attatchments. Compress with a real file compression utility, attatch and send.

And email and anti-whatever can still bork your email sending even with properly compressed files. I often have to rename .zip files to .piz when sending to DRG, or use .7z format since every few months or so his ISP's email filtering decides to bounce any email with a zip file, or bounce zips containing EXE inside, or rars and so on. Usually lasts a couple of weeks, then clears. Renaming to .piz worked some time back, now if it gets huffy it seems to bounce those too (is probably now reading the file header, not the extension name) - but .7z format did not seem to be on its watchlist (yet!).

RVPERTVS June 2nd, 2020 05:28 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
I'm attaching the two files straight to gmail, which is what I've been doing in my other games without issue.

Mobhack June 2nd, 2020 06:05 PM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
Try zipping them into a single zipfile and sending as an attatchment then.

Also, try rar format instead of zip.

And if you have an email account with someone else, try sending via that route as well and see if it works then.

Your problem is most likely either a transmission error, or a file handling error (like whatever makes the .new file - highly suspicious!) at the other end.

RVPERTVS March 30th, 2021 01:04 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm having trouble assigning a new platoon leader with the W key during deployment in a generated battle. In the saved game attached (slot 004) I can assign P4 to O0, and it becomes O5 as intended. However, if I try to do the same with P3 to Q0, it becomes Q0, and Q1 then turns PL. Any clues?

Mobhack March 30th, 2021 01:21 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
The game sometimes does that, there is no way to stop it.

Use the "fix formation leader" function to reset the leader. That is what the function is for, sfter all. I cannot recall if it is available for the free demo game, or is just the extended edition.

And what exactly does this have to do with the thread's topic of PBEM game fail problems? - next time, start a new thread please.

RVPERTVS March 30th, 2021 01:28 AM
Re: PBEM Fail Problem
 
I'm sorry about that. I thought it was better to solve it with a couple posts. Thanks!


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