Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

I gave my HQ unit an SP mortar. From that moment on, that HQ unit has only been able to fire smoke. I guess that is okay, but two other SP mortars also started to refuse to fire nothing but smoke ammo. They have explosive shells, but they refuse to use them. This problem persists from game to game, map to map, in the campaign that I play.

Another problem is less consistent. One of the artillery pieces, I think it's V1 (see the attachment), often fires at the edge of my deployment frontline regardless of the actual given coordinates. This only happens on the round zero. This has led to horrendous friendly fire incidents. This event is sort of random, I think.

The attached saved game files demonstrate the problem. The problem #1 is clear and can be seen right away, but the friendly fire issue can be a bit more difficult to spot.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

You need to be more clear what each of the two saved games demonstrates. The only "V1" is not an SP Mortar and exactly what do you mean by "I gave my HQ unit an SP mortar." ??............ and exactly which unit only fires smoke?

I let save one play out and no smoke was fired by the Keshet 120 which is the only SP mortar in that save

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

I have reuploaded the file. Now it is clearer which one I meant.

Please understand that these two issues are completely separate issues. V1 is a 155 mm artillery piece. Whether it is an SP mortar or not is irrelevant.

"I gave my HQ unit an SP mortar" means that my HQ is now an SP mortar.

The two non-firing mortars are U0 and U1.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

1) Making your HQ an artillery piece is not a good idea. In subsequent turns from turn 0, it wont be able to plot artillery, since artillery pieces cannot self-plot and so you have lost the ability of A0 to act as an observer.

2) None of the M106 units show HE on the arty plot, whether in the pre-game bombardment or a subsequent turn, which is distinctly odd and may be a bug in the code with that unit class. It will need investigating.

Edit - changing the sabot (min) range to 3 for that weapon solved the problem. But buying the 160mm SP mortar (same unit class) in 73, it showed HE just fine despite having a long min range as well.. Will need investigating further as to why. In the meantime, edit the sabot range to 3 in your Israel OOB and it will allow HE plotting.

3) The odd behaviour of the bomlet arty plotted for V1 is odd. If you cancel the fires and replot then it works perfectly fine though. So what exactly do you do with it that is different?. Did you plot it and then move the piece, or did you buy some units after plotting it or what?. It will be something you did like that, since cancelling its program and reploting clears the error.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

Thank you, Mobhack. I decided to make the HQ into a non-observer unit, because I almost never use it as an FO, so I felt that firing 107mm shells would be the best choice.

I have done the edits as you have suggested, but I do not see any changes in the game. In other words, the problem persists. Maybe I will have to finish the current battle and start a new one, right?

Please see the pictures:
https://ibb.co/QctwrBR
https://ibb.co/Gs42Ld3
https://ibb.co/zNC5gpT
https://ibb.co/4KmHP18

First, I went to mobhack. I loaded the default oobs. I changed the sabot range for 107 mm M30 mrtr to 3. I applied the changes and saved. I exited and went back to see if the range was still 3. It was. I went back to the game. I still cannot assign the plot the three SP mortars.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

This problem started immediately after I had made the HQ to an artillery piece.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

Just dont make A0 an artillery piece.

If he is an artillery piece he advertises his location to the enemy who may counter battery him (or planes will target it) and kill him, and when he dies your campaign ends since you are now dead...

making the A0 an ary piece is something I've never ever done, even back in the days of SP1 when you were limited to the 24 or so units you bought as your first core, since SP1 didnt allow expanding the core. So in SP1 (and 2?) one often bought cheap placeholder units (like trucks) in the initial buy.

Making A0 something "fighty" was therefore a regular thing in early SP version campaigns since tyhere were so few toys in the first place.

One of the worst things to do was to make A0 a SPAAA unit since the enemy air loves to kill AAA units, of course!

And the results you got from making him an arty unit also adds to the "dont do that!" reasons as well. The commander is not meant to be used that way in SP.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

I simply made the changes in mobhack, then loaded the sample turn 0 game you sent and all was well.

If you are trying to make the changes to a "running" game beyond the turn 0 save you sent, then of course you wont see any result since the initial unit data has been loaded into the units at turn 0 initialisation. So you would have to complete the game and go through the forthcoming purchase screens for the next game in series before seeing any effect.

So - go back to the turn 0 save you sent, and then the changes will "take". Also remember to unplot that piece that was firing cluster and replot it.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

And funnily enough - it was further units of the exact same unit class and exact subtype of that unit class as you had changed the HQ unit to that became borked as well....

(Basically - dont ever make A0 an indirect arty unit of any type since it seems to have unlocked some sort of code weirdness that likely has existed since SP1 days.) ( DRG Edit )

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

I see and I understand your points, but the HQ only has a good artillery stat, so that is why I wanted it to be an artillery unit. Now it is mobile and pretty fast, and I move it around a lot. I find difficult to believe that the AI wants SP mortars dead. Before being an SP mortar, the HQ was the standard vanilla infantry HQ and the AI frequently tried to kill it with mortar fire but never with anything heavy caliber. Giving it light armor and good mobility was a natural reaction.

If you were me, what would you do with the HQ next time that I refit my core army? That means after this battle, of course.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

I leave A0 as an HQ element and leave it on the baseline where it might be useful as an observer while it still does its real job of being the conduit to all off-map units. (if A0 is dead or running away then comms to off map units suffer).

What I never do is get it into the front lines to do something "fighty" or park it alongside things that will atract artillery (like beside an arty, AAA or SAM unit).

A0 is the "head shed" for your troops and has no business geting into fights either directly or indirectly. Find somewhere to park it safely that is away from anything that will attract attention and leave it there.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

Golden Rule # 1 for CG.

Never change your A0 from what it is.

Golden Rule # 2, see Golden Rule # 1


If you turn your A0 into a tank and it blows up and you loose the crew the CG is over, kaput, finished. If you change your A0 into anything other than leaving it alone, your violating GR # 1 and GR # 2.

You should instead when you purchase your core forces buy:

A0 is free leave it be
B0 is FOO
C0-F0 Arty
G0 AA
HO HQ support section to protect A0-G0 units
I-K inf coy
L eng plt (attach to I coy)
M eng plt (attach to J coy)
N eng plt (attach to K coy)
- Optional
O scout section (attach to I coy)
P scout section (attach to J coy)
Q scout section (attach to K coy)
R0-T0 Tank companies
etc.

BTW don't ever break, violate, twist, pervert or change GR # 1 and 2.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

Okay, so that means that it stays as an SP mortar, but I just use it wisely.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

The HQ unit should NOT...... except in rare scenario instances, be changed to something other than a UC 55 HQ unit.

If you intentionally ( for whatever reason ) break the game, it will do strange things. Your HQ is your main control centre. It has "better things to do " than engage targets from long range

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

The AI was getting it several times with mortar fire. I just wanted give it some mobility and light armor.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

The AI would only be mortaring it if it had seen it somehow, otherwise because it was adjacent to other units that drew its attention.

Just leave the AO on some hilltop in the rear, well away from other units.

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

ABSOLUTELY CONCUR with everything Andy, Don and zovs66 have suggested.

Depending on the terrain when using your HQ as a mortar that causes smoke when firing. The AI is "SMART" enough to know there's some kind of artillery/mortar unit that is very close by. I will simply say "INCOMING!!"

I do the same because "on map" artillery/mortars can be difficult to spot except by the smoke rising in the air that your units can see which will cause me to take the same action as the AI and have whatever's under the smoke yelling "INCOMING!!" as well. :D

Your HQ being your HQ was most certainly spotted by some AI unit that had a LOS on your HQ. Here we go again, "INCOMING!!"

Cover and Conceal ALL your units as best you can, especially your HQ if you lose that unit, your game will change and NOT necessarily for the better. It is the "comm link" to the units under your command, off map artillery and air capabilities again as Andy and Don have noted.

I seek the "highest" ground possible that gives it a decent LOS of the battlefield and to maintain comms.

Also, as Andy and Don have pointed don't have them too close to any type of AA/SAM, Artillery/Mortar or Ammo units. That goes for MBTs etc., in other words NOTHING should be near them within about 200m because enemy air could very well spot you then.

If you like moving the HQ around (And I don't in case, I need to call in some off map assets ASAP. I believe there's a movement penalty involved here that affects the "orders phase".) give them some kind 4x4 type vehicle that's fast and very mobile and of course has the CARRY capability to move them.

But whether playing against the AI or another Player, and to paraphrase "Where you see smoke, and you didn't fire there, then PLOT and FIRE there!!

After all we all know "Where there's SMOKE there's FIRE!! :doh: For those that know me, can you tell me you didn't see that coming!?! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Three SP mortars do not fire explosive rounds & one fratricidal artillery piece
 

Just wanted to let you know that I forgot that one of the artillery pieces fires upon my own lines if not reassigned, and I lost artillery due to the rogue artillery laying fire on them on round zero.