Something I stumbled upon
 

https://nodicenoglory.com/2021/11/10...tive-part-one/




"a bunch of kludges used to make something that’s really stupid look not quite so stupid.” The AI, in practice, was way better and smarter than just “…not so stupid"

...Is DEAD ON Accurate......... A coding tradition we have continued and enhanced :D...... thanks to Andys skill of being able to make sense of other peoples kludges......


Further EDIT

As for the “bad karma” part........yeah, that latched onto the mods as well

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

I'd say the AI in the games is "adequate".
And better then that in a good many other, and newer, games.

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

True, but one should play a PBEM game to see how vastly different an SP game actually is.

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

The first thing I did was to make the AI deployment much more random and sensible (aimed at the objectives).

The initial SP AI deployment was always a "phalanx" set smack in the middle of the deployment zone, basically. The more troops, the more lines in that phalanx. In SP3 it was even worse - the AI always deployed precisely 2 hexes back from the (random in SP3) frontline, so a stonk of arty 2 hexes in plotted in turn 0 was guaranteed to bring results - especially since in SP3, track and weapon hits were treated as kills, and deleted a strength pont of each unit which was a platoon, not an individual. Therefore 60mm and higher mortars were exellent ways to deal with armour in SP3, even M1s etc...

So I wrote code that moved the deployment about, and made more use of flanking deployments and also the defensive placement was similarly adjusted. Also, some formations get held back and appear later in order to give the AI a second echelon. Some simply have their reaction turn incremented so that they step off later, some are held offmap as reinforcements.

The other thing we had to do was to introduce some idea of caution to the AI - the original SP games were famed for the AI's "tin lemmings" rush. Our AI is much more cautious now if the enemy is known to be nearby. Mech infantry will tend to debuss rather than charge mounted into the enemy positions. It's still a bit over-keen to try to take nearby objectives, mind. (Objectives exist in order to guide the AI, and arent really "objectives" in the military sense. If there werent any of these then the AI would be hoplessly confused, rather than just plain dumb:) )

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

Yes, a human player does stuff the AI wont do - like using scouts on your flank to get eyes on your stuff and call accurate arty on them for example. So always sweep your flanks with recce stuff to look for spotters when playing a human.

Human players can also forget to do something as well. Played a game versus the Soviets PBEM in the Cuba missile crisis era as British where he a) forgot to buy any AAA and b) his T-62s were the type that had no 12.7 AAMG. ISTR that he had a few BRDMs with an AAMG, which I toasted easily. Once I had realised there was no flak or SAMs, I could enter from his side of the map and shoot the T-62s up the kilt with impunity once those 3 or 4 BRDMs were liquidated. He gave me the game after several turns. (Humans will also pack it in early when it is completely hopeless, unlike the AI)

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

The AI does occasionally go into a kinda No retreat/No surrender "Black Knight mode".......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWlb57OSBlY

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

The AI is an advantage when the set-up is unbalanced. Human players typically want "fair games" - often meeting engagements, equal points, opponent countries that are evenly matched, a few house rules (I played at the Blitz and it could be stuff like 10% artillery, no off-board artillery, limit on 0 size units, limit on Z-fire, only one tank per hex, AFVs only allowed to enter the first forest hex...)

This is understandable for a fun game - but that said, the AI will not complain if the set-up is lopsided...

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

Tbh, I'm OK with all of the above. The only rule I'd make for MBT (less so for WW2) is max 2 air strikes allowed. I've had quite bad experience with a mass of cheap helos totalling my Leos with cheap HEAT rockets flying 50m to their rear...:(

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

Agreed.

But then that's one of the reasons I make scenarios. To give players that don't PBEM (for whatever reason) situations that, for one reason or another, aren't your typical "get on line and attack/defend".

Admittedly I'm biased toward the USMC but part of that is because they're not your "standard" first-world high tech military organization. FAR less armor, generally infantry focused, but it's high tech infantry not "Chinese/Russian Hordes", they do consider/use their aircraft, which are (almost) always present, as "flying artillery" (which Don hates :D ).

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

[quote=Aeraaa;854880]You could let the AI pick the forces for the PBEM.

You won't get gamey creative helicopter solutions then, or cluster munition weapons with ammo trucks...

The AI might not even pick the best tanks present in the OOB, so you'd have to do with tanks that don't have 40 vis TI sights even if the OOB has tanks with that capability present.

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

[quote=wulfir;854883]Interesting rule for pbem. Let the AI ​​do the shopping and then you have to make do with what it gives you.

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

I have played battles against the AI where ( for example ) I let the AI handle the infantry formations and I keep the armour under my control with the assumption my "orders" are to use them as infantry support and had interesting battles. There are many ways to play the game

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

Yep...

You can do the same in any generated battle if you like. Not everyone likes it though, but it's an alternative...

Another way to spice things up if facing the AI is to have a buddy select and deploy the AI forces for your battle/campaign.

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

Excellent alternatives!!

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

Back in the early 90's the world 1/300 modern championships in Derby changed from the usual "meeting engagement, pick your own XXX points army from the army lists book" to a scenario-based model where you were say trying to pull your HQ trucks and SAMs off from an invading force, always NATO and Soviet (so your old Kuwaiti (say) army was now relegated to the shelf). I gave up competing in that period then as it was not really fun since I liked to play the old way.

So I dropped moderns and then I went for the WRG Ancients, 7th edition rules then DBM in 15mm. Didnt do as well as Ancients were a huge competition taking the main central auditorium at the snooker centre whereas Modern 1/300 took up a side room. But no dealing with weird scenarios where your VP came from safely exiting fuel trucks and HQ trailers off the side of the map before Ivan stomped them flat, and no requirement to provide both a Warpact and a NATO army as well either. And no need to buy and paint up those weird "B" vehicles which were no use other than at Derby, (maybe the organisers were in cahoots with the model sellers:D!)

I recollect that the last year that I played Moderns, you had to provide a defensive and a meeter list (same army) - the start of thier "scenario based" fights. Got blitzed as UK defending vs Tanzanians, who had a cloud of very fast and very cheap APCS and a few scorpions who were on me almost instantly, charged through the pre-laid defensive mines and got stuck in, my Milans and very few scorpions took a toll but then they were in bayonetting everyone... I was relying on my expensive minelet equipped FH-70s to make the main defensive belt but by the time those fell, the Tanzanian racing cars were well past the pregame plotted impact zones so the minelets dropped into the empty space behind the hordes!. Nightmare.

Way back in the early 70s I had played at the UK championships in 1/300 using WRG WW2 rules, and in those early days there ware no army lists. Someone for example turned up with just a few on-map FOO parties backed by an off-map host of artillery. A very cheap and easy to paint army;)!. He used the few jeep FOOs to take the objectives while the arty plastered the approaches with regimental level stonks. The very next year, they introduced an army list booklet!. That coincidentally nixed my Soviet army of all IS-2s with a few maxim HMG teams and a couple of 120mm mortars used for smoke, since the army list had a rule like "2 medium tank coys are required to be bought in order to buy a heavy tank coy" :doh:

The absolute easiest to paint and by far the cheapest competition army I ever came across was the opponent one of our guys who was playing some sort of "pixies and fairies" rules though (early edition warhammer??). Probably in the 1980s. His opponent's army was composed just one (1) invisilble dragon loaded up with magic spells which came to the total of points allowed. I think the fantasy section introduced army lists with a "core" force of troops on the map after that initial year!

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

[quote=DRG;854869]https://nodicenoglory.com/2021/11/10...tive-part-one/



Finally there are three articles written by Patrick S. Baker

Part One SP https://nodicenoglory.com/2021/11/10...tive-part-one/
Part Two SP2 SP3 https://nodicenoglory.com/2021/11/22...tive-part-two/
Part Three SPWW2 & SPWaW ( there is also notice about SPWW2 and this community around game) https://nodicenoglory.com/2021/12/10...ve-part-three/

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

There are errors in the final installment which, when I get time, I will contact him about

The first one I saw was this ( well .... the first one was "super-fans" Heath getting all the credit but I'll let that slide for now. Yeah, he got the code from SSI but he would never have got it without the success of the first Mod SP2WW2 we released with assistance from TGN in Dec 1998 )

In reference to SPWW2 released in 1999 he wrote.....

Is incorrect. The ORIGINAL Mod SP2WW2 that had changes to the code made with a hex editor DID require the CD but the 1999 release of SPWW2 did not

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

I remember playing the USMC vs Japan in the original "Steel Panthers".

The 24 (48?) unit limit caused no end of problems because you didn't get free landing craft so I needed to buy my own.

I very distinctly remember one battle where the 3in dual-purpose AA guns I had (2 as I recall) delt with a Japanese tank attack quite handily by the sheer LUCK of being in the right place at the right time and having a good field of fire when they appeared.

Re: Something I stumbled upon
 

Yes, letting the AI pick your force, PBEM or vs the AI, can make an interesting and unpredictable game. Let it do your setup too and have a lot of fun scrambling around.