Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Hi there!
I'm playing this scenario.
I'm on turn 5, yet.
I play my turn and at he end of the turn, I quit my order phase.
So begin the German turn. At the end of the resolution, the game crash down.
I've saved this game under a new name : idem.
I've changed some preferences : animation level=0; message=0; animation=off : idem

I've tested another scenario : no problem encountered.

Is anyone have an idea?
Having regard to the length of a turn, I don't want to do the scenario again!!!

Regards

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Try replaying the turn from a previously saved game point and see if it crashes on you again (or not).

If it does crash again, try attaching a save game from immediately prior to the crash event and then we can have a look at it and see if we can spot the problem.

Otherwise a message saying "it crashes!" is not particularly helpful in and of itself.

(One thing you may want to do is to do a disk check with Windows disk maintenance utilities and see if there are any lost clusters that need recovering, those can lead to a file error (and hence crashes) - and if it is your save game, that could be why...). If there were any lost clusters - then probably best to redo the turn from the last save again in case of that.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Thank you Mobhacl for your help.
I do that yet! No change.
Here you are the attached file of the saved game at the end of my turn, just befor to launch the Germann turn.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Windows defender gave me an antivirus report when I downloaded that - wacatac.b1ml or something similar. Then removed it.

You probably should run an antivirus scan and then try posting that again perhaps?

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

I will continue testing this but it has not changed since it was played and reviewed from both sides in 2021 and no issues were reported

HOWEVER.

I let it play out AI vs AI and it got to the point of putting replacement on the map ( I think....) the start of turn 6 when it shut the game down and I saw a graphics symbol on the map that should not be there

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1691013659

HOWEVER Pt 2

I restarted the game from the Autosave and it started right up and it is now playing out in the middle of turn 6

There will be a further investigation but it appears this "issue" does not appear for everyone and it can be overcome using the Autosave

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Here's the problem

https://i.imgur.com/P1r8kDz.png

When the green shows up so does that symbol that should not and if it does there is a possibility of the game shutting down. So far restarting using the autosave gets around that but it needs to be and will be investigated further

This will be a legacy issue relating to the conversion to Windows and the changes to the game terrain and it is an on again off again issue

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Thanks guys! You're awesome.

I'm stupid! I didn't thought to launch a game AI VS AI to test the isue. I should remember that next time.

DRG, probably you've found the isue.
Have you a solution?

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Shameless self plug:
What you COULD do, if the scenario is bugged for now, is going into the Campaigns and Scenarios forum and download my Redux 29th Infantry Campaign. ;)
The first scenario is about the Omaha Landings, but you can deploy your own force and the map is more accurate (made with the satellite data conversion tool that was not available back when scenario 9 was created).
Also, I still need testers because the campaign is WIP.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Not yet. That symbol it's showing indicates that for whatever reason that scenario is trying to load a terrain tile that it should not be which tells me there is info locked in the DAT file that should not be there and it's probably connected to the conversion to Windows from DOS. All it takes is one number

That example shows three ways that map edge can be seen. There should ONLY be two. If green tiles are showing there the problem is revealed

The "good news" from my POV is in my one experience with this reloading the game from the Auto save after the game shuts down SEEMS TO solve the problem..........that and the fact that Tom never reported an issue with it when he played it from both sides for his review

If anyone else has the time play it out and let me know if it shuts down either at the end of turn 5 or the beginning of turn 6 and if it does then does restarting the auto-save let you continue playing.

From what I can see the scenario is 99.9% intact. I need to test more but if you see green on the west map edge avoid scrolling the map so that the upper left corner is displayed and if it does shut down simply restart using the autosave

EDIT


I started a new version of this AI vs AI then changed it to Human vs Human on a restart and turned off all of the Computer-controlled units I could and I am now on turn 10.. the west map edge only shows grey and the game has not shut down

Thinking now it's one sequence of events that triggers this and sometimes it happens and sometimes it does not which is why it didn't happen to Tom turning his testing review. The "trick" is finding the trigger but FOR SURE the "tell" that the issue is in play is if you see some green tiles on the west map edge

EDIT 2


It's back........ turn 12

https://i.imgur.com/YfmHhCD.png

but the red and yellow symbol is not so it did not crash

Once the green edge shows up EDIT clearing smoke ( U ) will remove the green but so far I have found the green edge itself is not the cause of the crash but it's likely whatever sequence of code that puts that symbol on the map that does

BUT

It does seem that if it happens just start the game again with the autosave and you can continue on

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

I noticed that the buggy terrain appears on the map edge only after smoke has first appeared on the map. Everything is just fine till smoke/flame is added.

If you press "U" to clear smoke, then the grass hexes that overwrite grey map edge ones go away again, until you press U again or new smoke arrives - triggering the global "show smoke" flag.

Now - if you clear smoke and then hit end turn, and no new smoke arrives - you might be able to make it through the turn end. However Don's solution of saving, exiting the game and restarting again is a much better solution here. Especially if you see some garbage map hexes that aren't green grass at the LHS of the map - like that red blob!.

So the problem seems to be related to the smoke, likely an index or a pointer out of bounds (?) - and the very large map with loads of toys on it - I'll need to debug that when I find the time. If it is (hopefully) in some small part then hopefully I can put some guard code into whatever is doing this and pointing off into the map array(s) which likely are declared just after the smoke one in memory. (If the game had been programmed in say Pascal, rather than C++, then that language would have thrown an array out of bounds error "hissy fit", C++ simply assumes that the programmer fully intended to do whatever daft thing it's told to..)

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Andy is absolutely correct. That green shows up when smoke is present. Pressing U gets rid of the smoke AND the weirdnesses along the western edge. So with this scenario I would suggest clearing smoke before ending your turn MIGHT "solve" the problem until we can (.... Maybe) figure out how to stop it

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Hi Ts4EVER!
I've a little time.
I can test your scenario.
I'm going to dwnload it.
See you later.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Yes, and one possibility for you is to create a standalone Omaha scenario from that campaign that we can add to the game

:D

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Oh I will absolutely do that when the campaign is finished. In fact, I did that with the original version, so those scenarios already ingame could be replaced by the new ones with the satellite based maps.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Okay. So I've started again this scenario, saving turn after turn in a new slot each tile (1 turn, 1 slot).

Arriving at the end of turn 5, I've turn off smoke, saved again my game. turned off the game and restart. miracle: I'm arrived on turn 6... with a lot of green on the left of the screen. But I'm on turn 6: victory!

Thanks for your help and I hope this issue will be settled for the next upload!
Cautious as a snake walking on eggs, I'm goein to continue to save the game, turn after turn (for this issue appear on turn 12 again).
So, guys, you're are superguys (better than superman :laugh:).
So long and good speed!

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Hi,

Just came across this thread and I have the same problem with the game crashing. It seems to happen in long, large scenarios (large army, large map) when the green hexes on the left of the map appear. I play a lot of AI vs. AI. Sometimes restoring from the last save game helps, sometimes not. The 'clear smoke' function gets rid of the green hexes on the left but they come back as soon as smoke appears.

It happens on all the big scenarios I've played in the last couple years, since the upgrade before this last one. I like to make changes to scenarios, like a "what if" situation, and have the PC play itself so I figured the changes were to blame before I saw this thread.

I just thought I'd let you know in case it helps.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

I think in furure in cases like this where the game is crashing for people we need to see details of their computer and memory and info on what else may have been going on at the same time

Also....... saying things like "It happens on all the big scenarios I've played in the last couple years" Just that does not help us without examples of what scenarios were being played and how they were being played ( AI vs Human or AI vs AI )

What this thread amounts to is TWO (2) players have noticed a problem on a thread that has 877 (to date) views AND we have a player would has now playtested 624 scenarios ( from BOTH SIDES ) and he has not reported a problem

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

In the last 23 years or so, I have never had a CTD with any versions of SPWW2 (or MBT for that matter), playing small, medium or large or CGs. I have played and designed several large to huge scenario and "my" play tester to my knowledge never had a CTD with any of my scenarios.

Just my thoughts and experiences.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Just thought it might be helpful. smh

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Suggestion: Play scenario #400 (Tarawa, 11/20/43) as AI vs AI and let the game run. Around turn 40 it always crashes for me.

If this is a bug I would assume it happens for everyone but, if not, then it's something on my end.

Thank you for your time.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

@Beeg

I will run #400 and see, whether I get a crash too.

Right now I am testing #9, since it also crashes on my machine at turn 6.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

The more people testing and reporting the better but I can confire THERE IS A PROBLEM and WE WILL INVESTIGATE.

It seems to be tied into the "west" edge Junk terrain that is showing up and it seems to accumulate the longer you play. I am at turn 34 or so right now and there is junk grass terrain in some places 7-8 hexes in from the west edge

https://i.imgur.com/GE3LkCn.png

This should not be happening. It never used to happen and we never used to have these reports

Did this start with V14 or after V14 ?

Also is this only happening AI vs AI ?

The scenario review of this did not mention a problem like this but it was played Human vs AI

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

We are both testing this and I can say that the issue with west edge junk in water scenario exists at least back as far as V13 ........testing continues

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

The junk terrain shows up on other maps as well, not just beach ones. I have seen it a lot on Battle generated games and I had a notepad list of when it had happened but the computer updated, where my file went, that is my quest.

It always does appear, the junk terrain, on the West (Left) side of the map.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Also this happens in WinMBT as well.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

If anyone can get screen shots or a save game of terrain Junk on non water maps I'd like to see them becasue I've never seen it and I am playing a battle now looking for it and I see nothing at all out of place

1. How many turns need to be played before this shows ?
2. Is it just AI vs AI or Human/AI

I have a number of high turn count save games for both MBT and WW2 and I have not found any that show the kind of terrain junk that they water maps show

I also have a generated beach assault running with the water to the west and SO FAR the game has not generated any map edge junk.....BUT..... the map still shows the grey edge and it seems that when that disapears the problem start

Maybe.......

The more people looking into this the better. More data helps us narrow down the cause and that narrows down where in the code to look

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Do you want us to test with water/beach only scenarios?

I have never seen any "junk" terrain anyway that I am aware of.

Also have lots of high count scenarios.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

I just fired up Omaha an I do see this on the left side, is this junk terrain?

https://i.imgur.com/HQN00LL.png

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Turn 2.

https://i.imgur.com/cyn2mg9.png

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

In that scenario those gray hexes represent troop ships that reload LC's

The green grass is the junk

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Okay got my first every CTD in 23 some years.

Was playing #400 Tarawa, on turn 17. Had the green junk (see above).

Just ended my turn and the Japs fired at me and then my OBA hit the island and poof she was gone.

Not sure what is needed. I have the last save I had.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Hold onto that, we may need it

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Roger that. I don't think I can proceed in that game. Will try later to see if I can advance beyond turn 17.

Fired up SPMBT and just did an auto generated battle as an assault with a beach in 1988 with the Soviets assaulting the Danes. Interesting so far, smaller map (80x150).

The first thing I noticed that is different between SPWW2 and SPMBT is an amph assault is this:

In SPWW2 when all your troops are loaded on LCV or Alligators you can hit the 'h' key and select the A0 leader and then exit you have the A0 now selected, and then you can do 'b' key for OBA.

In SPMBt when all your troops are loaded on GSP Ferry's (Soviets) and then hit the 'h' key and select the A0 leader and then exit you are still on the GSP Ferry for that A0 leader.

EDIT, you can still plot arty with the Ferry A1 but ot the A0 leader (?).

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Well that was a disaster. I was trying to phase in the smoke for the amph assault by setting to turns 1-4 but on the first turn the Leo's and TOW's smoked almost all the ships carrying T-80s and one out 4 companies was annihilated lol.

Going back to turn 1 to reprogram the artillery smoke.

So that was still not great for a test. This seems to call for a custom scenario for MBT, so I think I'll create one using a full size map and correct amph assault force of some kind.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

I just tried that and went through the same H and B sequence and both games behaved the same way

WW2 shows "Spotting unit is A1> LCMI"
MBT shows "Spotting unit is A1> Barge"

In both cases I am taken to the bombard menu so in my test ( I just let the AI buy and deploy amphib units )pressing " ......the 'h' key and select the A0 leader and then exit you have the A0 now selected) brought me to the LCMI the AO was on not the A0

In my case I selected the AO from the Left list but I also tried selecting him from the right list and on Exit I was brought to the A1 LCMI not the AO

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

I vaguely recollect some "dodge" we programmed in for beach assaults way back in the DOS days to allow barges to plot arty, since there was often no way to get to any "0" unit to call for fires since all would be passengers in the old SSI game - unless say it was MBT and you had a few helos or you had a support LCI(G) - but otherwise, the HQ units would need to be deployed to be selected, and that is somewhat difficult in the open sea!.

That will likely be it, but it was 15 or 20 years back and I havent bothered playing amphib assaults in that time - not my cup of tea, really.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Thanks both!

The 400 scenario may be different? IDK, I just know in it I was hitting the 'h' key and grabbing that A0 Brigiader General A0 unit and exiting and seeing his name listed on the far bottom left.

Interesting I reloaded my turn 17 save and the scenario always starts out with the A0 leader with the screen to the left and no unit on the map (not even sure if he is on a boat?).

So this is what I was referring to in that scenario:

https://i.imgur.com/WZc4RCq.png

And:

https://i.imgur.com/Nyy5I7C.png

Yeah when you first load it fresh it display the same with the A0 leader.

Thanks for the tidbit on the landing craft.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

The first showing of the list will likely initialise on the A0, not too sure of any future attempt though.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

If anyone sees the west edge junk showing up in a new game on a newly made or newly generated map please post the save game here.

Thanks

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Don,

Here you go.

280 = t17
275 = t0

Everything else in between on some saves.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Do you want the same for MBT over in it's own thread on that forum?

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

No point in investigating the 2 games, one will do since it is highly likely to be the same problem since the base code is the same. So investigating the 2 games at the same point would just be chasing the rabbit's shadow and as pointless. If the problem is solved for WW2, it will be applied to MBT, and only then if there is a still a problem with that - then it would need further investigation of course.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Unfortunately some RL issues ate my time, so I am able only now to post them.

OK, here are some of my observations, after about 10 Ai vs. AI runs of scenario #9:

- first 3 games all crashed, while deplyoing resupplies, at the beginning of turn 6, with green garbage terrain of the left edge.

- next game I did remove smoke on turn 5, and was able to continue running the game until turn 15, when I quit.
But the interesting part is, that in turn 6 the game didn't crash, even though new green terrain appeared and even the yellow-red blob in the images Don provided.

- after this the next 3-4 games run way past turn 6 without crashing.

- next game I intervened on turn 5, just to manually end the turn as player 1, after which the game ran without problems untill turn 10, when I quit.

- next game I intervened after turn 5. So on turn 6 the resupplies successfully deployed, but when I tried to do player 1's moves the game crashed, just when I tried to pan the map.

- last game I did run crashed on turn 3 already, again with green garbage terrain on the left edge.

Hope this is still relevant and of any help. If there's anything more specific to test, please let me know.
If time permits I will try to attach some savefiles here in the next days.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

OK I figured out the game was SPww2 but these are all from the Tarawa scenario which we know has problems. What I am looking for is new maps either hand made or generated that show the west edge junk after a few turns of game play and it does not have to be a water map. If anyone can show me the junk showing up on a non water map we want to see it

Don.....remember those scenarios you tried to reserect but just couldn't no matter what ??

Right now I am thinking the Tarawa #400 and Omaha Beach #9 are their kissing cousins

BUT, I am not giving up on them yet but I want to be prove that this is not an old problem showing now but is a still active issue on new maps

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

For what it's worth, people played the Omaha Beach scenario in my new 29th campaign and so far no reports of crashes.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Has there been any reports of inappropriate terrain showing on the west edge?

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

Nope.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

OK. We are particularly interested in anything that shows up in a new map/sceanrio but if anyone sees anything in any other scenario or generated game other than the 2 we already know about ( 9 and 400 ) we want to know about it with a save game if possible.

The more examples we have of it gives us more things to test with the code fixes we will try

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

This is just an FYI.

I tested (only a few turns, but the left hand junk problem manifest itself in the first couple of turns) two of my Amph assault scenarios (716 and 728) one has the water on the right and the other the water on the left. But thus far there is no "map junk" in the scenarios showing up.

So this is a "hopeful" indication that newer scenarios are perhaps okay.

I'll keep trying a few things.

Re: Omaha Beach - Scen #9
 

I have noticed something new which I have not noticed before in both games. Perhaps its is what is designed or always been this way but I just started noticing while doing some testing.

In both games, any AFV that has water movement class or capability (i.e., Sherman DD or BTR-60PB) can move beyond the "lit up" movement area. Normally when not in the water no AFV can surpass the "lit up" movement area.

I don't know if this is intentional, or if there is any ill effects (so far I have not seen any AFV with water capability breaking down).

Just wanted to bring this up incase its some kind of side effect?