Possible bug
 

Hey there
I saw something in the game that maybe is a bug not sure maybe there is a reason for it. Its like this. I was the defender and sitting waiting while the enemy came forward and I noticed that the enemy fire pits started appearing on the map after just a few turns and I thought that was a bit funny because I couldnt really see any of those firepits, like they were behind trees or hills or further away than I could look.

After a while I could work out the direction where all his troops were advancing from and there was a big gap in the enemy firepits so I thought that there wouldnt be any troops coming at me from that direction and there wasnt so I ran some fast troops through that gap destroyed all his artillery behind him and won the game.

So isnt showing me where all his original positions were like to much information. Cause in real life I wouldnt have that information but the game gives it to me for free and that lost the game for him.

Re: Possible bug
 

If you have a saved game made right after you first noticed this, post it with details on which ones appeared and their co-ordinates

If you don't have one from this game then if you think you see this happening again, save it and post it with details on where the ones are that you could not see before but can now

There are a lot of reasons why a position can be exposed but without a save game it's just guesswork

Re: Possible bug
 

When you detect a defending dugin unit, its original dugin symbol will also be detected, even if they have say counter-attacked and left them way behind. The foxhole symbol is part of the unit, or the sandbags if its a vehicle.

Not a bug, game behaviour since day 1 in the MSDOS days, you have just rediscovered it apparently.

Re: Possible bug
 

Andy is correct. The game has been doing that since day one and it's something that "just is" and as a result, it's ignored

The attached save game demonstrates it. To the "east" of the trees are entrenched attackers. Once they appear through the trees the entrenchment they started in appears.

A before and after
https://i.imgur.com/rqkiawq.png

It's not a "bug" as it does not affect gameplay

Re: Possible bug
 

I get it, too hard to fix then thats Ok what else can you do. To be clear can I please ask if I find exactly the same unit, but its size 1 in one country and size 3 in another country you don't want to know about it right?

Re: Possible bug
 

It's not a question of "too hard to fix"----- Great job leaping to an incorrect conclusion ------- it's the way the game has worked since the start and we have never saw the need to change anything. So the entrenchment a unit started in appears when that unit is spotted....SO WHAT?

What benefit would there be to gameplay if it did not appear when the unit that was in it was spotted?

ZERO

You are the one and only person who has ever questioned it because it's NOT AN ISSUE except to you but from the start your entire focus has been to report real or imagined issues that the rest of us just accept or ignore and -------what part exactly of the words "final release" that we attached to the last release of SPWW2 we made are you having problems understanding ??

If you want to play "Mr. OOB Fix-it" then go right ahead and post your altered OOB's on the Mods section of the forum. That's why it's there and why we have included MOBHack with every release

Re: Possible bug
 

Well what happened was for me I could NOT see the units themselves. But I could see the foxholes. That looked to me to be a bug.

It works like this. The other guy is very careful to make sure all his units are always out of view at the end of his turn but during moving forward some of them come into view for a little bit as he goes from cover to cover. So even though he carefully made sure I cant see any of his guys at the end of his turn, because of the foxholes that I CAN now see I knew they were coming, where they were coming from, how many there were and like I said, where they WEREN'T and so won the game easy because of all the free information. I could see like 30 foxholes and NO troops.

Wouldnt that be a number bigger than zero?

Re: Possible bug
 

The foxhole an enemy unit was in DOES NOTappear to the other player until the unit(s) that was in them is spotted

In this screenshot there are NO Russian troops seen by the British side and NO entrenchments are showing and there are NO Russian troops still in the entrenchments they started in

https://i.imgur.com/WC8L6lO.png

This is what the Brit player sees.... NO Russian units and NO entrenchements .........

https://i.imgur.com/xAWEFrD.png

And the Brit player will not see those foxholes until the unit that was in them is seen.

Like this

https://i.imgur.com/RrLl00j.png

.........so " I could see like 30 foxholes and NO troops" is not the way it works and that can be tested with the example game I provided which has had zero views

Feel free to try and prove your point with a save game or screenshot but understand that I know that if the unit is seen then moved behind cover the entrenchment they started in the entrenchment will still show so showing me a map with entrenchments that has no troops in view is not "proof"..... the proof of how this works is in that save game I posted days ago. Set both sides to human control so you have totaly control of all the units on both sides

Re: Possible bug
 

You are not getting what I am saying. So in your example what you did not do is move the visible squad back out of sight. When you do that It WONT be visible but the foxhole WILL be.

So when the squad becomes visible it can then move somewhere where it is not visible anymore and it WONT appear on the map even though you saw it while it was moving to somewhere out of sight. BUT the foxholes did become visible when you saw the unit moving towards cover and stays visible permanently.

So the unit can be seen and then hide itself away again.
But once the foxhole is seen it is permanently visible even if the unit it is part of is back out of sight at the end of the turn.

Re: Possible bug
 

There is no point in removing the entrenchment if the original unit goes out of sight again after you have spotted it. You have seen where it is once that happens.

It is only invisible in the first place so that you cannot see the initial enemy deployment in game setup and hence plan your deployment accordingly, it should be blindingly obvious that is the case!

Re: Possible bug
 

The reading comprehension problem is not at my end as I explained that to you in the same post

I did not need to do what you said I did not do because *I* have known the entrenchment the unit started in would still be in view if the unit goes out of sight again for over a quarter century and that save game I provided ( that still has zero views ) allows all of that to be tested and observed .

Like this...... the X is where the Brits saw the Russian unit then I retreated it behind the trees...there is no unit visible but you can see the entrenchment and SP has been that way forever and NO ONE until now has questioned it because it's not important.


https://i.imgur.com/hTb8Fwy.png


What you wrote was ...

* EDIT *You also wrote ........
The foxholes will not be seen until the unit that was in them has been seen so the units HAD TO BE SEEN for the foxholes to appear and that is true no matter what kind of unit does the spotting........ spotter aircraft will not spot the entrenchments until it spots the units that are either in the entrenchment or had been in the entrenchment


* EDIT *
The fact that he has his troops out of your sight at the end of the turn is irrelevant. The reason the foxholes appeared on the map is those times his units "come into view for a little bit" so if they came into view they were spotted BY YOUR TROOPS which now know that enemy troops are in that area..... where they started is also irrelevant its where they may be now that is important and had this been played against the AI that "come into view for a little bit" is all the AI needs to possibly ( maybe... maybe not ) plot that area for arty

FINALLY ( Andy and I are done trying to explain this )......when a unit is spotted no matter if it was "fleeting" and even if the unit immediately goes back into cover and they are all hidden at the end of the turn the instant they are spotted is all it takes for their current position to known so the game reveals the entrenchment they started in..... a fact accepted by everyone playing SP since 1995....except you

Re: Possible bug
 

Maybe one of the other long time players would like to give explaining the obvious a shot?

Re: Possible bug
 

When you know where foxholes/entrenchments are, you don't loose that knowledge even if the unit which used said foxholes/entrenchments breaks LOS. Entrenchments another terrain-features, man-made or natural, don't move much.

This is at least my understanding.

Re: Possible bug
 

Oh now I get it. So you purposely show the foxholes to show that someone got seen somewhere else on the map god knows where. Wouldnt it be simpler to show the spotted unit in the replay?

Anyway theres zero about it in help and I bet just about nobody knows about it. It can be a disadvantage for someone doing an assault that doesnt know the enemy can see his foxholes, because he is used to meeting engagements and advances where you CAN duck from cover to cover and get away with it.

Re: Possible bug
 

You don't get it. Your worrywarting is completely irrelevant, except perhaps to you.

The fact that you happen to be the only person that has had a problem with this simple game design feature in nearly 30 years of the game's existence should perhaps be a wee bit of a hint?

Re: Possible bug
 

There is zero about it in help because NOBODY but you has ever had a problem understanding it so hopefully now you understand where "the problem" originates.

That the foxholes a unit started in appear when the unit that was in them is spotted has been a part of the game since before we acquired the code and has been a NON-issue for nearly three decades

HAD it been an "issue" we would have corrected it but it wasn't so we didn't and it still isn't....except to you

Re: Possible bug
 

Even I understand this and have always understood this. And have never had a problem, advantage, or disadvantage with this. After playing for at least 2 of the nearly 3 decades.

Wow, SPWW2 has been a favourite for 20 years!
Many thanks!