.com.unity Forums

.com.unity Forums (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/index.php)
-   Space Empires: IV & V (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Proportions mod 1.5 released (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=5361)

PvK March 17th, 2002 05:36 AM

Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Proportions mod Version 1.5 has been released on PBW. There is a link HERE to the PATCH (128 KB) for previous Versions to 1.5.. The original files for 1.3 are on the SE4 Gold CD.

The changes compared to previous Versions are EXTENSIVE, and are listed in the Last part of the readme, which I will copy below. Games run in all previous Versions of the mod can be upgraded to 1.5, although quite a few values may change. No components or units should change type, though. Empires from earlier Versions may no longer cost the same number of points, because many of the point costs changed.

+
+ P r o p o r t i o n s
+
+ for Space Empires IV Gold
+
+ mod Version 1.5
+

by Peter von Kleinsmid


Installation Instructions:
==========================

Un-zip to your SE4 Gold directory, with your extraction program set to use
the included directory path information. It extracts under a new directory
called "Proportions." Use the Mod Launcher program or manually modify the
Path.txt file in the SE4 directory to the path to the mod. In general, you
would replace:

Using Mod Directory := None

with:

Using Mod Directory := Proportions

Then run SE4 normally. Or just use the automatic mod launcher developed
by Matrix, which is included in SE IV Gold.


Mod Description:
================

Proportions makes large changes to the proportions of economy and development
in Space Empires IV. The scale of several aspects of play have been made more
realistic, along with various other changes.

The most important changes are that homeworlds now begin stocked with
"Cultural Center" facilities which represent the developed cultural homelands
of an empire. These would take a very long time to reproduce on an alien
world, and they are much more productive and capable compared to facilities
which can be quickly constructed on colony worlds. As a result, homeworlds
begin the game quite powerful, whereas colonies are less productive and would
likely take longer than an entire game to develop to the same level as a
homeworld. Colony worlds can be developed to fairly impressive levels with
enough time and population. More achievable than full cultural centers are
city facilities of various sizes, for example.

Contributing to this effect are the changes to populations, which now grow at
a more realistic rate (about 1/10th the normal SE4 rate) and which also
require a more realistic amount of effort to transport to planet to planet,
since they now weigh a more realistic 1000 kT, and cargo capacities mean a
large ship is required to move even one of these. A colony with a small
population also builds at a much slower rate than a world with billions on it.

All of this means that developing a colony infrastructure is still very
important but is also more challenging, and will not so quickly alter the
balance of power or research.

Another large set of changes involves ship design. The ship designs have
been developed to include pseudo-Newtonian movement. Speed is proportional
to thrust divided by mass. All ship sizes have a to-hit modifier based on
size and maneuverability, and a ship which loses its engines becomes easier
to hit. Larger hulls are more expensive to build and maintain, and smaller
ships require fewer engines and are harder to hit, so bigger is not always
better in every case. Colony ships are huge. New ship classes include Scout,
Massive Base Ship, and Starliner.

Planetary capacities have also been increased, both for units and for
resources. This means that planetary defenses can be amassed to great
strength, particularly on a homeworld, and empires also can stockpile large
reserves of resources, so they can potentially operate at a deficit for
extended periods.

Proportions includes numerous other adjustments to the game, listed below:

Infantry units have been added. These are available from the begining of the
game. The best ground force is probably a combination of infantry and
vehicles. Ground combat has also been slowed down. It may take many turns to
conquer a well-defended planet on the ground. Militia has been greatly toned
down - planets should be garrisoned if they are to resist a serious invasion.
Because of the cheapness of infantry units, the effect on population
happiness has been removed.

Standard armor works differently than in the un-modded game. It is not all
peeled off before any component damage is done. Instead, it absorbs a lot of
damage and protects components, but components can be destroyed while armor
is still intact. This is more realistic and unpredictable, and makes ship
design more interesting - using only components makes for a more powerful
but also more fragile and expensive ship than one with some space devoted
to armor.

NOTE: The AI is currently not all that good at playing with this mod. Some
of the AI files have been altered to help, but in general this mod is best
played by humans against humans. I would recommend playing against the AI
briefly to learn the mod, and then play in games with only human players,
also because the AI isn't so challenging even in the native game, and in
Proportions, capturing an intact homeworld will be a major advantage for
players who go picking on AI empires.

Research costs adjusted to compensate for new research capacity at game
start.

Fighters are much harder to hit with capital ship weapons.

Mount variants where larger weapons are less accurate. Smaller mounts added.

New racial disadvantages have been added, and point costs for traits and
attributes have been altered.

Neat new quadrant types.

A couple of altered system types, new warp point types, and planets that
appear to have ruins but actually don't give any technology. The "comet"
system type is removed. Unstable stars actually should be.

New component variants including some adjustments to the default values:
* Shield regenerators are much less expensive.
* Non-phased shields have some stonger Versions.
* Point defense comes in a self-defense variety, good for protecting only
that ship from missiles.
* Organic manipulators have better organic generation facilities.
* Torpedoes made less ineffective.
* New life support, bridge and auxiliary control variants.
* Crew quarters include some ability to resist boarding attacks.
* Just adding guards to repel boarders is now much less expensive than
boarding equipment.
* Electronic warfare components have been greatly expanded in detail yet
reduced in strength.
* Longer-ranged scanners.
* Engine supply and to-hit adjustments.
* Master computers are not as good at fighting as good human crews.
* Added cheap Versions of bridge and master computer that save resources
but don't fight well.
* Reduced range and increased supply use for warp point manipulators.

New system names, emperor names, empire names, ruler titles have been
included. Many of the system names are from a list of system names posted
for SE3 on the web, which I condensed and embellished.

Fixed a problem with the Orders Snafu intelligence mission in simultaneous
games. Now this mission does not alert the victim (which in simultaneous
games allowed him to undo it before there was any effect). Note that this
still can be detected sometimes.

Maximum units and ships in space per empire increased to 5000 each by default.

A few new random events.


Notes for better game setups:
=============================
<> Don't set the game to limited resources!
<> If you choose a new warp-point "rich" quadrant type, try turning off the
option to connect all systems with warp points. The "richness" will
probably accomplish this anyway, and the map will tend to be much more
interesting.


Tips for effective play:
========================
<> Consider building several or more population transports to help colony
development progress, ferrying population with auto-repeat orders.
<> Note that there is an "efficient" Version of every engine type. It is
slower but much greater ranged. They can be mixed with other engines
to trade off between speed and fuel efficiency.
<> Note that security stations and supply storage are much cheaper, and
come in small Versions.


Changes Log:
============

Version 1.5:

* Note: Saved games from Proportions Versions before 1.5 can be upgraded
to 1.5 without completely bizarre changes, but many values will change!
* AI improved in various ways, especially in development of planets and
infrastructure. Amon'krie is the most improved.
* Construction ability removed from Cultural Centers.
* Reduced damage capacity of colony modules from 200 to 60.
* Some large ship engine capacities reduced.
* Some small ship engine capacities increased.
* Added an entire set of efficient engine variants. These use much
less fuel, but also produce much less thrust. This creates choices
between faster shorter-ranged ships, and slower longer-ranged ships.
* Increased costs of ship and weapon platform (but not base) larger
weapon mounts.
* Added maintenance reduction to smaller ships.
* Increased maintenance reduction of transports.
* Increased maintenance cost of larger ships and colony ships.
* Added Large Starliner class ships.
* Newer quadrant types moved to top of list for visibility, and changed
default type.
* Adjusted to-hit bonus for larger fighters and smaller ships.
* Corrected Military Science maximum tech level.
* Corrected Scanners maximum tech level.
* Changed home system with no spaceport value.
* Changed created storm maximum obscuration value.
* Raised massive shield generator output to five times previous output.
* Decreased defensive to-hit bonuses from Stealth and Scattering armor.
* Increased Emissive armor ability slightly.
* Decreased combat bonus from War Shrine.
* Decreased combat bonus from Event Predictors.
* Reduced cultural effects on ship combat ability.
* Reduced effect of ship and fleet training facilities further.
* Added military science requirement to psychic training facilities.
* Divided output of replicant centers by ten.
* Reduced supply cost of Gravitational Quantum Resonator II.
* Added tech requirement of Explosive Warheads for drone warheads.
* Added strong phased shield ability to urban and cultural facilities,
to give them much higher damage resistance.
* Changed militia values.
* Changed ground combat damage multiplier to 1000%.
* Adjusted infantry to-hit modifiers.
* Adjusted some racial trait costs.
* Reduced damage to kill one population somewhat.
* Adopted Suicide Junkie's relative scale for maintenance aptitude.
This means the advantage works like a factor of the base 26% rate.
For example, +50 maint aptitude means most ships will have a 13%
maintenance cost, and bases will have a 6.5% maintenance cost, of
their purchase price.
* Adjusted many costs of many aptitude adjustments.
* Added to-hit modifier to DUC's, shrard cannon, and other "slow"
(relative to lightspeed weapons) direct-fire weapons in space.
* Split ground and fighter Versions of small weapons, armor, and shields.
Ground troop Versions are about 40 times as damage resistant. This puts
them in line with the ground combat adjustments, and makes troops harder
to shoot off planets from space. Ground weapon abilities adjusted quite
a bit in various ways.
* Adjusted events mix and levels a bit.
* Defined small arms as "engines" so troop vehicles couldn't use them.
* Changed solar sails to standard movement system.
* Added gravitational technology requirement to gravitic weapons.
* Added new high-tech drive type: Gravitic drives.
* Reduced the TL4 religious talisman but extended tech up to level 10.
* Reduced the TL5 quantum reactor and introduced several progressive levels
before the (large and more expensive) infinite Version.
* Made colony ships, infantry, and heavy base ships compatible with the SE4
Image Neo-Standard (see http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/neostand.htm).
* Improved shard cannon damage to compensate for this mod's standard armor.
* Adjusted stats on some of the really inefficient weapons - e.g.
incinerator beams, graviton hellbore, and wave motion gun.
* Several fighter weapon stats adjusted.


Version 1.4.2:

* Further tweaking to infantry units to make the higher infantry techs more
meaningful after the fix in 1.4. That is, some features in their design
weren't supported by Gold 1.60, so this Version gives them different kinds
of advantages to compensate.


Version 1.4:

* Remedied a problem with infantry units in 1.3 running Gold Version 1.60.
That is, the defensive modifiers for infantry in 1.3 were not being used
correctly by Gold 1.60, causing stalemates. The defensive mods were removed,
because there seemed to be no way to get them to work properly in Gold 1.60.


Version 1.3:

* Version 1.3 is the original release Version that comes with SE4 Gold.

- PvK (PvK@wargamer.com)

Fyron March 17th, 2002 06:24 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>* Crew quarters include some ability to resist boarding attacks.<hr></blockquote>
Crew quarters already provide some boarding defense.

Osweld March 17th, 2002 06:29 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Good stuff.


I'm only a few turns into the game and I can see an enormous improvement in the AI already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie March 17th, 2002 06:45 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Crew quarters already provide some boarding defense.<hr></blockquote>Exactly 80% of the strength of a Boarding Party I, in fact.

PvK March 17th, 2002 06:49 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Where is the crew quarters resistance accomplished/moddable in the data files? Is it cumulative per crew component on a ship?

It's good to know, but I think the addition in Proportions makes sense, as I know from experience that in general a boarding party almost always succeeds, at least a mark I one against a ship with only one crew quarters.

PvK

Edit: I should've said, "a ship with two crew quarters." I.e., in unmodded, a single boarding party 1 can almost always capture a battlecruiser or smaller if the target ship has no security stations.

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: PvK ]</p>

Fyron March 17th, 2002 08:27 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
I think it's a hard-coded part of the boarding success formula. Multiple crew quarters give more defense.

PsychoTechFreak March 17th, 2002 08:44 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Great stuff, PvK. I am looking forward to our PBW challenge...

Just one concern, I want to carry it over from the Multiplayer thread because I think it could be better to be discussed here...

Since the impact of high and catastrophic events on a homeplanet is that immense, and the support of the complete fleet would break down immediately in case of a rebellion, here is my suggestion:

The cultural center has got the following description:

The developed homeland of a space-age civilization, including cities, parks, infrastructure, arts, religions, sciences, industry, etc.

Religions... I think in this case, a cultural center should be a little bit pampered by God. So, my proposal is to add Change Bad Event Chance - System to it. Maybe a bit lower than Fate Shrine 3, but at least, mmmh let us say -15, this would be like a Fate Shrine 3 divided by 2.

What do you think ?

PvK March 17th, 2002 09:06 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Actually, yes, the homeworld catastrophe aVersion is a probably a good idea. I wouldn't want it to be absolute, because it is pretty interesting when something does happen, but it also should be rare enough that it's an unlikely exception.

I will add a suggestion to the next Version's readme that if a player does experience a homeworld revolution, that they should probably be given the choice (either by themselves or by their game master / host), of switching player spots with the new rebel empire. I'd actually really like to see that happen sometime - it sounds like it could be quite interesting, though it should be very rare, of course.

PvK

PsychoTechFreak March 17th, 2002 08:28 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Some wrinkles observed so far, don't be offended, please, I really like your mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The lower level quantum reactors seem to be not functional, or do I have to kick them to generate fuel between re-energizings ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

If I setup a ship with solar sails as engines and no supplies, it just moves one sector per turn. If I add a 5kt Supply Niche, a light cruiser gets 6 sectors per turn and is able to run endlessly, as expected.

Edit: ... and the armor skipping weapons appear to be very weak with the new armor rules in your mod. My setup was a kamikaze light cruiser just with engines and about 36 times armor 4 (because of the high price of armor 5 to 7) against a starbase with massive mounted null-space weapons and a sensor (88% to hit chance). The null-space weapons just scratched the armor of the light cruiser a bit, the controls or the engines were not harmed, kamikaze reached star base and wahooom...

[ 17 March 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]</p>

PvK March 17th, 2002 10:49 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
On the contrary, PTF, I'm thrilled people are so eagerly testing out the mod, and finding wrinkles is the the way to get them ironed out!

Regarding these:

1) Low-level Q reactors should perhaps be explained better somewhere. What they are are just very high-capacity, low-space supply storage. They are re-energized by returning to a depot. Only the Mark VI (I think) actually generates supplies by itself.

2) Sail-only ships will stop moving if they have no supplies, and they don't generate or store supplies. Note that if a non-Proportions sail ship has no engines, it won't move at all. I should probably give them a small solar supply generation ability and a spot of storage. That would be consistent with their development at the end of solar collectors. Thanks for the idea - it'll be so in the next Version! Meanwhile, ya, splurge on a 5kT supply niche. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

3) a) Yes, armor-skipping weapons are ineffective in Proportions against generic armor, which is why I increased some of their damages. It is still useful against non-generic armor, and particularly against Crystalline and Organic armor.
b) Sounds like you were doing a "high" (i.e., max) tech test, so I expect you were using "superlative" Armor VII's, and quantum engines in which case your suicide ship probably cost about 55,000 minerals. That's the cost of about five max-tech light cruisers with sensors, shields, and weapons. I built a starbase with eight massive mount null space projectors, fire control center, and filled the rest with armor IV, and it only costs 74,000 minerals (and about 50K of rads, thanks to the not-especially-useful-against-regular-armor null space weapons). For about the same cost as your ram ship, I believe I can build a non-null-space base with cheaper armor that will gobble up your super-tech-armor ram ships (and cost half as much to maintain). Study the standard armor progression and you'll see that highest-tech armor is very strong but extremely expensive.
c) When you say "wahoom," what happened? If you build a starbase with no armor or shields, it is little better at receiving rams than a bunch of unprotected equipment waiting for impact. Adding a proportion of armor to all ships and bases that might get hit by something is recommended (though be careful how expensive the armor is that you are using).

I should make the higher-tech armors be more distinct with different names and pictures, so players notice that suddenly their armor is costing an order of magnitude more. Also I notice the Armor VII shows a VI numeral - I'll fix that.

Thanks!

PvK

Osweld March 17th, 2002 11:08 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
I found a bug, where if I upgrade a ship design that has combat sensors II (I haven't tried it with any other Versions of it) the computer switches them to a fire control center which is meant for weapon platforms, and isn't normally available to ships.

PvK March 17th, 2002 11:31 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Confirmed. SE IV isn't checking the vehicle type restriction when upgrading, because they have the same family number. I changed the family numbers, which fixes this, so it won't do this in the next Version of the mod.

PvK

PsychoTechFreak March 17th, 2002 11:31 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
1) Other than the supplies of the engines, the lowlevel QRs actually do nothing, I have built a Cruiser with QR I (claims: generates 15000 fuel between re-energizings) but nothing else than the engine supplies are displayed, and after they (about 1000) are gone, the ship runs out of fuel.

3) I think you are right about the cost balance. Actually what I have tested was in the simulator, fully human control. The base was without any armor or shields, I just wanted to observe what armor-skipping weapons do under the changed rules of armor physics. One massive Null-Space weapon destroyed one or two armor 4 (I did not use the costly 5,6 or 7) and nothing happened with the engines or board controls of the ram ship. So Null-Space is not armor skipping at all in your universe ? Actually I would like to learn what particularly you have modded to get a not-always-first-armor-peeling physics in your mod. Could you explain it to a Modding greenhorn like me ?

PvK March 17th, 2002 11:50 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
1) Other than the supplies of the engines, the lowlevel QRs actually do nothing, I have built a Cruiser with QR I (claims: generates 15000 fuel between re-energizings) but nothing else than the engine supplies are displayed, and after they (about 1000) are gone, the ship runs out of fuel.
<hr></blockquote>

Ack! You are right - I neglected to put in the actual ability value! I just fixed this - thanks!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
3) I think you are right about the cost balance. Actually what I have tested was in the simulator, fully human control. The base was without any armor or shields, I just wanted to observe what armor-skipping weapons do under the changed rules of armor physics. One massive Null-Space weapon destroyed one or two armor 4 (I did not use the costly 5,6 or 7) and nothing happened with the engines or board controls of the ram ship. So Null-Space is not armor skipping at all in your universe ? Actually I would like to learn what particularly you have modded to get a not-always-first-armor-peeling physics in your mod. Could you explain it to a Modding greenhorn like me ?
<hr></blockquote>

Sure. While the organic and crystal armors and stealth/scatter are I think essentially unchanged, the standard and emissive armors have had their ability to absorb damage before all other components removed, but their damage capacity greatly increased. The effect actually works really well, and is much more like actual ship damage and armor. That is, on a heavily-armored ship (one with a lot of and/or good quality armor components), most damage will go against armor components, and a lot of it will even "bounce" (be accumulated until there is enough to destroy an armor component; the remainder is ignored when combat ends). But it is still possible to damage equipment without "shooting off all the armor first." Some shots will hit useful components rather than armor, possibly before any armor components are destroyed. Again, quite realistic and interesting.

The sacrifice, however, is that armor-skipping weapons don't skip standard armor in Proportions. (Standard armor does not have the "Armor" ability - it just has a high structure/size ratio.) They do skip the other armor types, though, and have had their damage upped a bit, to try to balance this out.

PvK

PsychoTechFreak March 18th, 2002 02:35 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
I guess you are aware of this, but just to avoid a possible misunderstanding in my sometimes poor wording... The setting event frequency medium (10%) and the "Change Bad Event Chance - System" at -15 does not exclude events absolutely AFAIK. My guess about these modifiers is: Either -15 means -1.5% or the 10% of the event frequency will be reduced by 15%.

E. Albright March 18th, 2002 08:33 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
Where is the crew quarters resistance accomplished/moddable in the data files? Is it cumulative per crew component on a ship?

[...]

Edit: I should've said, "a ship with two crew quarters." I.e., in unmodded, a single boarding party 1 can almost always capture a battlecruiser or smaller if the target ship has no security stations.
<hr></blockquote>

This reminded me of some research I'd done on this long, long ago, and prompted me to go out and look at the Gold demo to see if it still seemed to hold true. Lo and behold, it did (tho' I couldn't really put it through its paces w/ higher-level BPs and SSs).

To summarize my old-time research (which agrees w/ what SJ said, to be sure), the "value" of a boarding party must exceed that of the boarded vessel, with the "values" for relevant components as follows: a crew quarter (CQ) is worth .8, a level of boarding party (BP) is worth 1, and a level of security station (SS) is worth 2.4. Thus, Ship A (BP I x 4, or BP IV x 1) will be able to capture Ship B (CQ x 4) or Ship C (CQ x 1, SS I x 1), but not Ship D (CQ x 5) or Ship E (CQ x 2, SS I x 1).

Oh, and IIRC, Master Computers don't help at all, but the Last time I messed with this I was getting screwy results w/ 'em, so figuring out if they are in fact w/o value in this respect is left as an exercise for the reader...

E. Albright

Edit: thread w/ old research summarized above is here.

[ 18 March 2002: Message edited by: ealbright ]</p>

Rlaney March 18th, 2002 09:32 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Did you actually manage to change armor so that it isn't "destroyed first" but actually blocks some damage in 1.5? How did you manage to do that? I may just be missing an obvious but I've been starin at the screen so long editing AI files that it's all a blur to me.

PsychoTechFreak March 18th, 2002 10:14 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Rlaney, as far as I understand, PvK has removed the traditional armor ability from emissive armor and the yellow plain armors. He raised the resistance points of the armor against the resistance ability of the other components, then it is a kind of more chance to hit the armor, but still a small chance to hit another component.

PvK March 18th, 2002 10:48 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Rlaney, as far as I understand, PvK has removed the traditional armor ability from emissive armor and the yellow plain armors. He raised the resistance points of the armor against the resistance ability of the other components, then it is a kind of more chance to hit the armor, but still a small chance to hit another component.<hr></blockquote>

Yes. It's not a change in 1.5 either - it was that way from the beginning. I really like the way it works, except that armor-skipping weapons don't skip it.

ealbright, when you write "a level of boarding party," you mean every 5 points of the "Boarding Attack" ability, right?

And, "a level of security station" would be 15 points of "Boarding Defense"?

PvK

dogscoff March 18th, 2002 12:05 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
PvK- Will you be releasing a "wrinkle-fixed" 1.5x before we start our multiplayer, or shall I just download 1.5 from this thread?

E. Albright March 18th, 2002 06:51 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
ealbright, when you write "a level of boarding party," you mean every 5 points of the "Boarding Attack" ability, right?

And, "a level of security station" would be 15 points of "Boarding Defense"?
<hr></blockquote>

Uh, yeah. I (not being a modder) never thought to look at the components.txt file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif So, um, yeah. Everything I said still goes, except that one must replace the numbers I gave with 4 (CQ), 5 (BP), and 15 (SS). So if one is counting, one can note that this makes SS even more powerful (in comparison to CQ, and recalling that 1 CQ = 10kt v. 1 SS = 20kt) than I'd noted: SS I is 1.875 times better, SS II is 3.75, SS III is 5.625, SS IV is 7.5, and SS V is 9.375. IOW, it would take an amount of CQ equal to twice any of the above numbers to provide matching protection (e.g., to equal 1 SS I, you need 3.75 CQ).

Oh, and methinks my long-ago confusion re: Master Computers may have been caused by fuzzy math based on the notion that a CQ was worth 1/3 of a "level" of SS rather than 1/3.75. Further experimentation with this in mind has shown 'em to be utterly worthless at defending v. BPs.

E. Albright

PvK March 18th, 2002 08:28 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
ealbright, did you figure out what (if any) random chance was involved in boarding combat results?

Dogscoff, since I expect we will wait until the 30th for Rollo and Gorgo before we start, there should be another patch before then. If you want to get a preview, though, do take a look at 1.5. It's only a 128K download, and I don't think it will be very different from the next Version, unless people find something important.

PvK

Rlaney March 18th, 2002 08:58 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Hey Pvk. I think I screwed up. I did some modding to the old Version of proportions then finally figured out how to do the ai's on 1.5. I finaly managed to get an ai that will actually try to invade my planets. Problem is they got real damn good at it reallly fast. I'm gettin wiped all over the universe. It's a bLast to have a mod that is actually a challenge. Thanks again for all your work on this one.

PvK March 18th, 2002 09:22 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Glad to hear it, Rlaney! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

When you get an AI you're happy with, email it to me and I'll include it in the next Version.

PvK

Tnarg March 19th, 2002 06:29 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
can't seem to pull up the 1.5 proportions patch.

PvK March 19th, 2002 06:43 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Try HERE.

Tnarg March 19th, 2002 07:02 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
I keep getting a Page Cannot be found. Bummer.

Osweld March 19th, 2002 07:14 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
It works fine for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

I'll put it on my webspace for you, try this.

Tnarg March 19th, 2002 07:31 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Thank you, I have it now. Now the question is can I use it with the TDM, or any other mods? If I do use it with the TDM, do I extract it into the data files of the TDM or just into the SEIV Data files folder.
Thanks again.

PvK March 19th, 2002 08:31 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
I don't think any mods will work with Proportions except shipset graphics (remove AI files first if you want them to work as AI empires). Proportions changes just about everything, in ways that other mods don't. If you try Proportions and don't like some aspect that there is a specific partial mod for, you could try dumping that mod on top of it and see what happens, but I think usually you'd just get something weird.

PvK

PsychoTechFreak March 19th, 2002 10:00 AM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tnarg:
I keep getting a Page Cannot be found. Bummer.<hr></blockquote>

I have noticed you got it already, but I guess to download something from the PBW server, you have to be logged in first:

PBW home

E. Albright March 19th, 2002 06:33 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PvK:
ealbright, did you figure out what (if any) random chance was involved in boarding combat results?<hr></blockquote>

My experience has always been that there is no random chance involved, just straight number checking. Perhaps there is, and I've not done enough playing/testing to see it, but if so methinks I'd have at least an inkling of the existence of randomness therein based on how much boarding I have done...

&lt;shrug&gt;

E. Albright

PsychoTechFreak March 21st, 2002 01:29 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
I do not get the idea behind self-defense cannons. They cost half as much as the according PDF cannon, all right, but would that be enough motivation to use them ? Or am I missing something, maybe with combat strategy improvements due to using this part ? Maybe they could be reduced in size ?

Krsqk March 21st, 2002 07:20 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
If you don't want a dedicated PDF ship, you could use these to protect important ships in your fleet. They probably won't go off at seekers targetting other ships, thus (theoretically) increasing that ship's chances of survival. Of course, the overlapping PDF thing probably isn't bad, either. These would probably work well with the bait and charge tactic of planet attack. Send one ship in to get WPs to fire, then send the rest in next turn. The self-defense Versions should deal nicely with any missiles left after two turns of good solid planet-pounding.

Oh yeah, I've also used these on WPs on new colonies. It's not worth the expense to get range 5 PD coverage when range 1 works just as nicely to protect a single target.

Phoenix-D March 21st, 2002 07:44 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
"It's not worth the expense to get range 5 PD coverage when range 1 works just as nicely to protect a single target."

Be careful about that. Planets are multiple squares in size; I'm not sure if WPs pick a square or just fire out of the closest one.

Phoenix-D

Krsqk March 21st, 2002 07:54 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Judging by seekers fired by WPs, they are distributed equally around the planet. Of course, seekers fired at max range usually don't do any damage; they seem to have to reach the center of the planet. Which would mean the range 1 PDF would get a shot.

The max range seeker thing is true at least in my personal experience. I think the history.txt file with Gold mentioned something about changing the maximum firing range strategy so seekers would be able to target *all* squares of a planet.

[Edit] The problem with the seeker range is that targetting range is determined by the outer edge of the planet, while impact seems to be the center of the planet--one square further than the seeker can travel when fired from max range.

[ 21 March 2002: Message edited by: Krsqk ]</p>

PvK March 21st, 2002 11:50 PM

Re: Proportions mod 1.5 released
 
Oh, are seekers at max range vs. planets still not fixed in 1.60? I thought MM finally got that one. Let me check... looks to me like ships with range 8 missiles set to Max Range strategy are actually closing to range 5 of the planet, which is close enough from any direction.

The idea for self-defense cannon are as the description says, to protect the ship itself from seekers. As opposed to PD cannon, which protect everything nearby from both seekers and fighters. The idea of using SD cannon to protect planets with WP's is very good, because the range from a planet is one square from the surface, which surrounds the whole planet.

They are also good for ships that you want to protect only themselves. Also, since in Proportions, fighters are not always nailed by PD cannon, this helps avoid having all your ships taking pot shots at fighters instead of protecting themselves from missile salvoes.

Nonetheless, I think the suggestion that they should be smaller is probably very good.
Especially if I tweak their to-hit down a little more...

PvK


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.