Organic Infestation ?
 

Whats the use of a System with a Organic Infestation ? Or of a System with a big star telling you "A star is is its progress to be created" (or howevers its called)

I was really scared when i noticed a Infestation next to my Homeworld, but then i noticed it did nothing, even after a few douzen turns...oh well that must have been my first game though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
so anyone knows about that ?

[ 25 March 2002: Message edited by: TheGunslinger ]</p>

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

It's just an Eye candy.
The only close thing to an Organic infestation to your planets are plagues.

But you gotta admit, it's pretty horrifying.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Not only organic infestations, all new Systems in Gold are a great disappointment.
I was expecting something new, something that modders wouldn't have been able to add, with new abilities that would really add something new to the game.
Instead most of them are just new pictures in empty systems with some descriptions and names that just don't make sense.
I get the impression that many of the pictures and descriptions were made by someone that is not familiar with SE4 structure.
Some mods such as Hadrian Aventine's Ultimate Mod added more and more interesting new system types.

Here's a list of all new systems and some opinions and ideas about them.

Black Hole 2
It's a copy of the old black hole with a new pic and new description. The same way there are many pics for nebulaes, it makes sense that not all black holes look the same (the fact that they should be invisible is part of another story).

Description says it draws all matter from nearby systems, but abilities are the same as the old one.

Comets
Nice pics in empty systems.
It's completely out of scale. A comet should be smaller than a planet (it's even described as a planetary fragment) but these ones look larger than stars.
Solution:
Erase these system types, they just doesn't make any sense. Crop the pic and resize it to 128x128 and 36x36 and add it as a sector type object. Perhaps ice planets (since they are outnumbered by other planet types), or perhaps non-colonizable like asteroids.

Stellar Core Fragment
Another nice pic in an empty system.
Again if it is a fragment of a star's core, why is it larger than a star???

Green Giant
Yet another nice pic in an empty system.
What a hell is a Green Giant?
This reminds me of a long discussion in the yahoo group about the existence of green and purple stars.

New Nebulaes
Nice pics. Lower sight obscuration and shield disruption are interesting variations.
There is this bug someone posted: their System Physical Type is Normal instead of Nebulae, so they cannot be destroyed by nebulae destroying components.

Nova
Description says that the star gone nova is distant. Then that is that thing in the center of the system? and where is that distant nova? In another system?

It would be interesting that for example every time a star is destroyed (either naturally or artificially) the system turns into a nova system for some time before becoming a destroyed star system.

Anyway, a shield disruption system without sight obscuring or pull to center abilities should be and interesting ground to stage battles.

Organic Infestations
Yet other nice pics in empty systems.

It may be interesting if they were minable (with high organic value)
Or if infestations would break out as events (or by using some stellar manipulation weapon) forcing the player to "kill" it some special new techs or to evacuate the system before it consumes the planets.

Red Giants
Yet other nice pics in empty systems.
IIRC there were already some standard stars described as red giants.
But it's ok, they are supposed to be way bigger than normal stars.
Maybe add them some ability to make them more interesting. Sector damage or Shield Disruption

Spatial Ruptures
Nice. They use the Random Movement ability that was so far unused in the standard game + a shield disruption.

Burnt Out Star
Yet another nice pic in an empty system.

It resembles how destroyed stars looked SE3. I'd just crop the center and use it as an alternative destroyed star sector type with the same size of normal sector types.

Star Forming
Yet other nice pics in empty systems.
This is the only case where IMHO the pics are good enough to justify new systems just to display them.

They would be more interesting if in time they would become a newly formed system with empty colonizable planets.
What about if they were spontaneously formed in a nebulae system or in empty space outside any system. (adding new systems during the game!)
A whole new system being created from nothing.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

One way to make some of these new pictures usable is to put lots of asteroid belts in them (of course the ones that make sense. I dont believe anything would live in a nova.) Then when you get the technology you could create planets that would survive in say an Organic Infestation system.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Is it possible to assign a negative value to the stellar ability "pull to the center of system" ?
If yes, the Nova system can be made pushing ships away, thus emulating the strong solar wind of blowing star http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

I have to concur with the general consensus that these new "systems" are pretty worthless.

Make them do something or give a way to turn them off.

GB

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

I did a revision of these new system graphics because I thought most of them looked too large for the space they occupied. You can get them at the link in my sig or at PBW.

I think that idea about the repulsion for Nova systems is a good idea. Or at least, taking damage for being in such a volatile sector of space.

-edit-

I am going to make a modified SystemTypes file to include special abilities for these new systems.

Wish me luck!

[ 26 March 2002: Message edited by: Arak Koba ]</p>

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by GhostBear:
I have to concur with the general consensus that these new "systems" are pretty worthless.

Make them do something or give a way to turn them off.<hr></blockquote>

Well sir, aren't you arrogant.

Even though they are worthless to the strategic part of gameplay, In the original, it was pretty boring to see either solar systems, or asteroid belts, or just nebulaes... and it had only around 5 colours.

They still look nice, and add a bit of fun in the beginning.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

The way I "see" the new systems is for now they are eye candy as someone has said.
Personaly, I like the variety. I also suspect that making them "do" something would have cost more time and money. I also suspect that they will indeed have a function in the future. I'd say suggest some ideas on how to use them.
The idea about "pushing" ships was very interesting.

Edit: I wish I could type

[ 26 March 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]</p>

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Ok, I have added all kinds of abilities to these systems, mostly along the lines of scanner interference, shield interference, and random movement for systems like the Infestation, etc.

I need to go test it out, especially to see if movement repulsion will work for the Nova system.

Once I test it out, I will upload it and link it.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arak Koba:

Once I test it out, I will upload it and link it.<hr></blockquote>

You da man!

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

I think I'll do the same. The two "takes" might be interesting.

The nova system needs a change of description IMO, given that regular stars can go nova, taking no time at all. Maybe change it's description to something like "the local star is trapped in a nova cycle, exploding, recondensing, and exploding again" and add some dangerous sectors. Also add an (invisible) star at the center, so it can be blown away.

Organic infestation- I'll change it's description so it's DEAD. Otherwise the thing would be trying to kill your ships! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hmm. Maybe two varients- one alive, and doing damage in every square, the other dead. The alive one could have a captive sun at it's center, hidden, but enough to blow the infestation away if you can get a stellar manipulation ship in there. Or build a sphereworld around.. nautral defense http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Red Giants- hmm. Probably add some asteroids near the outskirts, and some damaging storms in the star proper. Also an invisible star in the center, so you can blow it.

Green Giants- same as red giants. (BTW, reality speaking these things make no sense)

fragments- these are just plain WEIRD. hmm. maybe change it to an entire solar system. Would explain why they're so big- it got condensed down into a ball, then ended up passed through the other system, attracting all the planets in THAT system. Somehow avoiding igniting in the process.

Anamoly- look good as-is IMO.

Black holes- change description to "supermassive black holes" and remove the pulling-in matter thing, since they don't actually hurt any nearby systems. Maybe add some storms to the new pictured one, and make it pull at a speed of 1. You wouldn't actually see the hole.. and in SE4, you're not. You're seeing the crap that's on a decaying orbit INTO the hole.

Star forming: see nova and fragments.

Dead star: see fragments. The thing is *way* too big. Needs a description change.. hmm.

New nebulas: change description to be consistant with the old ones. Also change system type to nebula.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Another thought: for the live infestation, perhaps mixing random movement with damaging sectors? The damaging sectors are "mouths" that attempt to eat your ship, and the random movement is the combination of the ship's attempts to evade and the infestation's attempt to catch it.

Phoenix-D

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

For the (ho, ho, ho) Green Giants, Quite frankly, it needs to be a Blue giant as the spatial spectrum has only gone to about dark red to dark blue... so far observed by our telescopes anyways.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

JFYI, the negative 'system - movement towards center' value didn't work.

No repulsion for Novas then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Damaging sectors for the infestation sounds good, but it might take a bit of work to do it. Let me see..

Stellar core fragments as I have them now destabilize local warp points as well as are destructive and pull ships toward them at 1 sector per turn. This at least makes them mildly interesting.

Green giants (Ho, ho, ho! Green Giant! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) really don't exist as far as I know, though blue giants do (very VERY large stars that are short lived; very hot too). But I have made them cause massive sensor interference and shield interference, as well as do the pulling 1 sector in per turn thing. The greenies don't have a destructive center though..

I also gave the burned out star the same asteroid configuration as the asteroid system in stellartypes.txt. This will generate asteroids in this system, but there won't be a star in it.

Blackholes are now of two types: normal, and powerful. The powerful one moves you in 4 sectors per turn.

The spatial ruptures are also of two types: normal, and powerful. The powerful one moves you 4 sectors in a random direction per turn, but the center is also destructive. (So keep your lucky dice handy!)

I am also trying to revamp each of the nebulaes so they are unique from one another (i.e., some interfere scanners, others shut down shields, and some do both).

Plus some other stuff.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Nice alternate pics, especially for the blackhole/red star one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT: This will generate asteroids in this system, but there won't be a star in it.
FYI you can make an "invisible" star and put it on top of the picture. Best way- and this SHOULD work, but I haven't tested- would be a blank small bitmap in planets.txt, and the large bitmap for the same spot being the same as the system pic.

Phoenix-D

[ 26 March 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]</p>

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Yeah, that method should work. It should work for the infestation damaging sectors too.

The only thing is, you have to go through and create the 'obj' for each sector or ring that you want to include this. Doing so means having to edit some of the other .txt files and whatever else I haven't counted on yet.

So I don't know how far I will get on that today.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Ok, here is the prototype for all to see.

Take a look; make suggestions; criticise, poke fun, gawk and all that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cbinko...ystemTypes.txt

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arak Koba:
JFYI, the negative 'system - movement towards center' value didn't work.

No repulsion for Novas then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif


Plus some other stuff.<hr></blockquote>

Maybe an integer value is required (if the program recognizes values between 0 and 1).


Also, Pulsars/Quasars/Neutron Stars could be added. Pulsars, for example, could cause alternating shield/sensor blockage as well as increasing damage the closer a ship got.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Anyone have luck with changing the new system types to Nebulae and seeing if that lets you use the nebula destroyer to make a new star or something like that? (Haven't had a chance to do much like that since I play at High tech costs and that makes stellar manip *very* expensive.)

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Wow, i am just starting to play/discover gold but it is great. I think these are all very valid, check out Campaign 1 by someone i can't figure out who, ill upload a zip if ppl want it

the point is it has some really cool system ideas. I was preplexed, one was a trap system (moves everyone into center by 7 moves each turn, more htan early ships can handle) etc.

here is the description:

Welcome to the Space Empires IV Campaign! This campaign is high difficulty and intended for those who have already grasped the basics of the game engine. You start off as the Xi'Chung, minions of the mysterious 'Ancient Empire'. Now that your masters have left it is up to you to decide how to proceed. Will you seek to explore the Ancient's abandoned domain, or will you conquer all of those who dare oppose you ? You decide. Proceed if you dare.

It isn't hard.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by wr8th:


Maybe an integer value is required (if the program recognizes values between 0 and 1).
.<hr></blockquote>

I wrote Aaron about this, and he says its not implementable in the current build. He says it is on the to-do list, however. (as far as negative center movement)

And Sinapus, I will give that a try. In a current game, I have a star forming sector and I have all the techs and ships needed to create a nebulae. Let's see if it works!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: Arak Koba ]</p>

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Novae / Supernovae: How about modding dozens of invisible stars into the system so that ships with solar supply collectors are instantly charged up to maximum?

Also, all those extra stars would (should) increase the chance of a stellar instability random event, causing the system to explode, as every good nova should.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

dogscoff, I still haven't figured out how to make invisible stuff. Any advice is appreciated.


Sinapus, I think I figured a way to do the nebulae/star creation thing with the systems in question, but it requires going into systemtypes.txt and changing the system type to 'nebulae' instead of 'normal'. Otherwise, the game just won't register the stellar manupilation in those systems.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

[quote]Originally posted by Arak Koba:
[QB]dogscoff, I still haven't figured out how to make invisible stuff. Any advice is appreciated.

There is a stellar ability "Planet obscuration" Does it work and How ? In Proportions, some systems have planets with this ability (specified in system.types), but I could not find any effect of it. The supposedly hiden planet and colony on it is visible as any other planets.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arak Koba:
dogscoff, I still haven't figured out how to make invisible stuff. Any advice is appreciated.


Sinapus, I think I figured a way to do the nebulae/star creation thing with the systems in question, but it requires going into systemtypes.txt and changing the system type to 'nebulae' instead of 'normal'. Otherwise, the game just won't register the stellar manupilation in those systems.<hr></blockquote>


Actually, that was what I meant by "change the system type". I just haven't gotten that level of tech to try it yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Ahh! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I thought you meant, 'change the nebulae systems to a different type through manipulation'.

I need my morning bisquit! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arak Koba:
Ahh! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I thought you meant, 'change the nebulae systems to a different type through manipulation'.

I need my morning bisquit! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif <hr></blockquote>

No problem. I'm debating with myself whether or not I want to make the Spatial Rupture systems have the black hole type so the black hole destroyer can eliminate those, or just keep them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

IIRC, the nebula destroyer (judging from the description at least) puts a star in the middle of the system. Has anyone managed to go do that? (I know, I know. I'll have to get the tech and try on my own.)

[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: Sinapus ]</p>

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Spatial Ruptures doesnt have to be a Black Hole; If you say that a Nebula imploded, It can be making a star.

If you say that a Star Imploded, it's a black hole.

If you say that a Black Hole imploded, You can say that it's a Dense Singularity (even though if such things existed it would be hell for the galaxy) or a White hole http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Or why don't you say that the Time-space fabric collapsed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Make it so that whatever ship goes to the center, make it transport the ship randomly throughout the quadrant?

Just Some ideas.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TerranC:
Spatial Ruptures doesnt have to be a Black Hole; If you say that a Nebula imploded, It can be making a star.

If you say that a Star Imploded, it's a black hole.

If you say that a Black Hole imploded, You can say that it's a Dense Singularity (even though if such things existed it would be hell for the galaxy) or a White hole http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Or why don't you say that the Time-space fabric collapsed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Make it so that whatever ship goes to the center, make it transport the ship randomly throughout the quadrant?

Just Some ideas.<hr></blockquote>


It was more making the system type a black hole so it could be destroyed by the black hole destroyer. After all, there is no Create/Destroy Spatial Rupture component available.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sinapus:
It was more making the system type a black hole so it could be destroyed by the black hole destroyer.<hr></blockquote>

Well I was kinda talking about that; I'm just saying that it should be modded based on the description.

Sorry if it wasnt clear, eh?

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Here's an addon to the systemtypes:
Wonder Systems

There is:
- A nomadic planet (with lots of moons)
- A starsystem running into a turbulence (every object has a storm hanging onto it).
- A system with a twin/dual world. (Two large planets in same sector, acting as a moon to each other)

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

In lieu of my enhancing of the sensor components for my personal mod, I think I am going to make blackhole and large star systems completely disrupt Gravitic sensors.

I mean- if a black hole won't disrupt gravitic sensors, nothing will! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

But of course, I can't do that, since there doesn't seem to be a way of disrupting a particular sensor type.

Rats! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ 29 March 2002: Message edited by: Arak Koba ]</p>

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

SJ, your Wonder 1 system is fantastic !
I started a new game with your systems included in system.txt. One neibour systems is Wonder 1 and I am itching to get to some scaners ASAP to investigate what is hidden under all those storms ! Very entertaining indeed, adds more spice to dull standard SEIV systems.

Re: Organic Infestation ?
 

Keep an eye out for Wonder 2's.
They're basically a poor man's ringworld http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif