Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

I joined an ongoing PBW game as a replacement player and... well, most other races hail from gas giants. Is there an advantage in being able to colonize large planets only, or is this offset by the fact that large planets are rarer than small ones?
I suspect that in multiplayer games there could be a small drawback: in this particular game I happen to have an ice-based race and I'm happily colonizing the galaxy while the gas empires fight over colonization rights... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

It may have been that everybody thought
"Hey, I'll take gas giants, and be able to colonize freely while the rest of those fools compete for puny rocks. BwaHaHA."

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

Gas giants have more facility and cargo spaces.

1. Facilites: An expensive Robotoid factory could bonus more facilities on a gas giant. Same for Value Improvement Plant and other planetary bonus facilities.

2. Cargo: More space Weapon Platforms, units, and the new DRONES. I suspect the drones would require lots of room.

3. Preference: Since the AI seems to like the rocks, I pick the gas.


---------------------

Upgrades Happen!!!

---------------------

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

Gas giants have more room, but the advantage is offest by the fact that there tend to be fewer gas giants than rocks.

I'm in a PBW game (Diplowar 2) where all eight players chose gas giant races. It certainly made things interesting.... There were two distinct land grabs: one at the start (when borders were pretty well defined), and the other when everyone developed/traded for Rock and Ice about at the same time.

Quikngruvn

[ 26 March 2002: Message edited by: Quikngruvn ]</p>

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

The rock riders have got a sometimes decisive advantage: RUINS, RUINS , RUINS !

Try the following: start a test game with omnipresent view of all systems, or setup a race with ancient race trait. Then count the SPECIAL planets for Gas, Ice and Rock, you will find about double as many ruins on Rocks than on Gas or Ice.

Oftentimes you will find another Colonization Tech in one of the ruins, and if you find them early in the game, you will rule it.

But it is a matter of taste, as everything in SE4.

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

Has anyone a clue about how the game generates planets?
For example, it might:

• First determine size, then atmosphere, then composition (ice, rock or gas): in this case small and tiny planets can "get" only rock or ice compositions, or
• First determine composition, then atmosphere, then size: in this case we have a minor number of planets without atmosphere since gas giants must have one, or
• Determine all stats of a planet according to a single "table" (e.g., 1% of all planets are huge methane gas, 0.5% are huge methane ice, 1% are huge methane rock, 1% are large methane gas, etc.)

Can the planet atmosphere and composition types be modded, by the way? (I seem to remember that the size classes may be altered...)

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

The game generates planets based on the text files.

An example from sectype.txt:
"Physical Type := Planet
Picture Num := 10
Description := Moderate planet with dense cloud cover.
Planet Size := Medium
Planet Physical Type := Rock
Planet Atmosphere := Carbon Dioxide"

That's one possible planet.

From Systemtypes.txt:
"Name := Standard 1
Description := Standard solar system.
System Physical Type := Normal
Background Bitmap := Starmap.bmp
Empires Can Start In := TRUE
Mask Background Objs := FALSE
Non-Tiled Center Pic := FALSE
Number of Abilities := 0
WP Stellar Abil Type := Normal Warp Point
Number of System Objs := 12
Obj 1 Physical Type := Star
Obj 1 Position := Ring 1
Obj 1 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Star
Obj 1 Size := Any
Obj 1 Age := Any
Obj 1 Color := Any
Obj 1 Luminosity := Any
Obj 2 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 2 Position := Ring 2
Obj 2 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 2 Size := Any
Obj 2 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 2 Composition := Any
Obj 3 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 3 Position := Ring 3
Obj 3 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 3 Size := Any
Obj 3 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 3 Composition := Any
Obj 4 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 4 Position := Ring 3
Obj 4 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 4 Size := Any
Obj 4 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 4 Composition := Any
Obj 5 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 5 Position := Ring 4
Obj 5 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 5 Size := Any
Obj 5 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 5 Composition := Any
Obj 6 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 6 Position := Ring 4
Obj 6 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 6 Size := Any
Obj 6 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 6 Composition := Any
Obj 7 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 7 Position := Ring 5
Obj 7 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 7 Size := Any
Obj 7 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 7 Composition := Any
Obj 8 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 8 Position := Ring 5
Obj 8 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 8 Size := Any
Obj 8 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 8 Composition := Any
Obj 9 Physical Type := Storm
Obj 9 Position := Ring 5
Obj 9 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Storm
Obj 9 Size := Any
Obj 10 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 10 Position := Ring 6
Obj 10 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 10 Size := Any
Obj 10 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 10 Composition := Any
Obj 11 Physical Type := Planet
Obj 11 Position := Ring 6
Obj 11 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Planet
Obj 11 Size := Any
Obj 11 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 11 Composition := Any
Obj 12 Physical Type := Asteroids
Obj 12 Position := Ring 6
Obj 12 Stellar Abil Type := Normal Asteroids
Obj 12 Size := Any
Obj 12 Atmosphere := Any
Obj 12 Composition := Any"

That's one possible solar system. Notice that any planet can come up- I think some planet types are more common because they have more entries in the first file.

Phoenix-D

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

Count planets of every type atmosphere and size in sectypes.
Count how many are allowes as any and how many are forced to be of a certain size and/or armosphere in every systemtype
Multipliy the resulting value by the times each system appears according to quadranttypes.
Compile everything in to a graphic (so no one understands it).
Post it here.

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Andrés Lescano:
Count planets of every type atmosphere and size in sectypes.
Count how many are allowes as any and how many are forced to be of a certain size and/or armosphere in every systemtype
Multipliy the resulting value by the times each system appears according to quadranttypes.
Compile everything in to a graphic (so no one understands it).
Post it here.<hr></blockquote>

Very nice picture. The only thing I cannot distinquish is rocks vs ice. But I will hazard a guess and say the rocks outnumber the ice so then I can tell which is which. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
None has alot less than I thought. Did you include moons? I always liked None because there are always alot of moons littered around the galaxy. But according to your graphic, all the other atmospheres have more tiny planets than None does.

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

I have a spreadsheet someone put together, I do not remember who did it, but to summarize the results they are as follows: 48% Rock, 24% Gas, 28% Ice. Ice are clearly at a disadvantage because they get small worlds. Gas get half as many as rock, but the worlds are bigger. Rock have more chances at ruins than gas. I favor lots of small worlds over a few big worlds because that gives you more places to build shipyards early on so you can spend those resources building more colonizers. One element that favors Gas Giant races is they get more benefit from Industrial computers than other races because they can get 10 facilities on a planet more often so that a 10% computer is worth building. Another element that favor Gas races is they get more Population bonuses on their worlds. However, that bonus comes no where close to making up for half as many worlds.

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

I did count the moons (fored to be non atmosphere - tiny) and did count the "moon hosts" that are forced to be huge.

Yep, ice planets are the ones that look like a diagonal line.
Gas giant frequency of larger sizes compensates their lower number, but nothing compensates lower number of ice planets. Ice dwellers will allways be in dissadvantage.

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

If you play with neutrals/comps or dumb humans (neutrals are best cause they are neutral) you can trade them 2 ****ty ships (1 engine meet requirements) for whatever colony tech they have and then go wild.

Also i am leaning more towards rock now. I used to be a gas junkie but i guess that more planets that are smaller mean if you lose one it isn't such a loss. And ruins, ahhhhhhhhhhh.

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

Ok I revised again my graphic and realized of the error I had made when counting moons.
Here you have it, more than half of the tiny planets are none atmosphere.

To answer the topic question, I made some calculations by multipliying the number of each size of planet by the number of facilities it gives and adding them.
Here are my conclussions:

Without Domes:
Methane-Ice 477.33 facilities (4.69%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide-Ice 500.44 facilities (4.92%)
None-Ice 619.11 facilities (6.09%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide - Rock 800.89 facilities (7.88%)
Methane-Rock 824 facilities (8.10%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide/Methane - Gas Giant 854.22 facilities (8.40%)
None-Rock 928.67 facilities (9.13%)


Considering domes:
Methane-Ice 901.42 facilities (5.12%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide-Ice 919.91 (5.22%)
None-Ice 1014.8 facilities (5.76%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide/Methane - Gas Giant 1366.8 facilities (7.76%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide - Rock 1471.8 facilities (8.35%)
Methane-Rock 1490.3 facilities (8.46%)
None-Rock 1574 facilities (8.93%)

The difference between Methane and other atmospheres is that they have 1 more small-rock and one less small-ice planet. Maybe a bug in sectorabilities.txt, it gives a slight advantage to methane-rock and a slight dissadvantage to methane-ice.

Advantage of rock-none is compensated by the fact that they'll have less non-domed planets when researching extra colonization techs (no none-gas giants), and that they will not be able to use atmospheric mod plants on gas giants for the same reason.

Note that gas giants are comparatively better if we don't consider domes.
This advantage is compensated by the comparatively lower number of domed facilities in large and huge planets.
Difference between atmospheres and none is also acentuated (still putting rock-none in first place above gas giants), since there will be no domed moons that make up a good part of the domed space.

So in conclusion:
The best combination in the early game is allways rock-none. That advantage goes away once extra colonization techs and atmosphere converters come into play.
Then best ones are rock and then gas if domes are allowed (as usual), if not gas and then rock.
Ice planets are always a large dissadvantage, none-ice is better than other-ice.

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

Yes, that graphic makes much more since that the Last one. There are *alot* of moons out there :-)
Thanks for all your hard work and analysis!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Andrés Lescano:
Ok I revised again my graphic and realized of the error I had made when counting moons.
Here you have it, more than half of the tiny planets are none atmosphere.

To answer the topic question, I made some calculations by multipliying the number of each size of planet by the number of facilities it gives and adding them.
Here are my conclussions:

Without Domes:
Methane-Ice 477.33 facilities (4.69%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide-Ice 500.44 facilities (4.92%)
None-Ice 619.11 facilities (6.09%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide - Rock 800.89 facilities (7.88%)
Methane-Rock 824 facilities (8.10%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide/Methane - Gas Giant 854.22 facilities (8.40%)
None-Rock 928.67 facilities (9.13%)


Considering domes:
Methane-Ice 901.42 facilities (5.12%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide-Ice 919.91 (5.22%)
None-Ice 1014.8 facilities (5.76%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide/Methane - Gas Giant 1366.8 facilities (7.76%)
Oxygen/Hydrogen/C Dioxide - Rock 1471.8 facilities (8.35%)
Methane-Rock 1490.3 facilities (8.46%)
None-Rock 1574 facilities (8.93%)

The difference between Methane and other atmospheres is that they have 1 more small-rock and one less small-ice planet. Maybe a bug in sectorabilities.txt, it gives a slight advantage to methane-rock and a slight dissadvantage to methane-ice.

Advantage of rock-none is compensated by the fact that they'll have less non-domed planets when researching extra colonization techs (no none-gas giants), and that they will not be able to use atmospheric mod plants on gas giants for the same reason.

Note that gas giants are comparatively better if we don't consider domes.
This advantage is compensated by the comparatively lower number of domed facilities in large and huge planets.
Difference between atmospheres and none is also acentuated (still putting rock-none in first place above gas giants), since there will be no domed moons that make up a good part of the domed space.

So in conclusion:
The best combination in the early game is allways rock-none. That advantage goes away once extra colonization techs and atmosphere converters come into play.
Then best ones are rock and then gas if domes are allowed (as usual), if not gas and then rock.
Ice planets are always a large dissadvantage, none-ice is better than other-ice.<hr></blockquote>

Re: Are gas giants really an advantage?
 

For some reason i keep playing on Ice planets.
My previous atmosphere was Co2.
Now it is methane.
nice..... the lowest number of facilities, lol