Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

See http://www.latibulum.com/pvk/proportions/ for the new files.

This Version is mainly a set of adjustments and corrections to 1.5.2. I'm hoping to post a 1.6 tomorrow which will involve greater changes. This Version is designed to fix things while changing as little game balance as makes sense, for players that want fixes without having equipment abilities change during an existing game.

Changes in Version 1.5.3:

* Corrected size of Advanced Armor II.
* Corrected tech level requirement of Singularity Generator V.
* Changed standard armor availability to Ship/Base/Sat, because all-armor
drones were so hard to stop, due to the "all or nothing" drone damage
allocation.
* Added old armor types as "Ablative Armor", for use on drones or other
units (if people want weaker but always "hit first" protection).
* Also added standard and emissive drone armor.
* Added new armor types for satellites and weapon platforms, to better
balance against shield abilities, since units don't track component
damage.
* Changed efficient engine family so that regular engines won't upgrade
to efficiency models, and so both types are shown when "show latest"
is selected.
* Fixed an apparently harmless typo in Combat Sensors VIIa.
* Fixed the spatial rupture typo bug from Gold.
* Changed the previous default system type name to "Abnormal Sidereal"
and added a new "Sidereal" variant as the default type. This type
does not have so many planetless systems, so it is much better for
the current AI to navigate through.
* Reduced the average number of planets per system, introducing
seven new system types and adding them to all quadrant types.

PvK

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Very interseting Mod. Now I don't know what to do, LOL. Wait for 1.6 tomorrow or start this tonight. Anyway, thanks!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

This is in fact reply to 1.52 thread, but anyway:

I raised a question about very odd AI planetary constraction in Proportions mod. Namely, every single colony builds spaceport firstly. Even if it is a colony in home system with fully operational home world spaceport.

In standard SE IV, AI does not do it even though space port ability is the first line in planetary type description. The explanation is of course simple- "space port" is system wide ability. If we have one, AI skips this line and build next item in the list. The Proportin's problem is, IMHO, in diffferent coding of space ports on home worlds (it is "space port") and on other colonies (is is "emergency energy", IIRC). I understand why it was made this way - to code unique Proportion's facilities like cities and cultural centers.
May be this dual coding must remain as it is, but still, we must do something about erratic AI constraction. NO ONE expects 8 space ports in one system !

The best way IMHO is to assign some, however small, production/reserch values to spaceports and call them villages or something. Alternatively, make all AI players Natural Merchants.


Another note: It is certainly nice to have more system types. Unfortunately, it produces even more disparity in players staring locations: It is usually better to start in 9 planets system than in say one or two planets system. I suggest to set the "Empire can start" to False for most sparse systems. This way, we can average (slightly) the playing field but still have the wide variaty of systems.

[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: oleg ]

[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: oleg ]</p>

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Tenryu, thanks, and sorry for the quandry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks too, Oleg - I understand now what's going on with the space ports - naturally you're right (although I don't think it's really the first thing it will build on all planets, but that's not the main point). What I would need, then, is an ability that is considered system-wide... hmm... I can't think of one off hand that wouldn't have side effects.

Or, like you suggest, maybe I should just add a new facility, like "Military Space Port" or "Industrial Space Port" or ... that is more expensive but combines space port with some other function that is useful to have on multiple planets in a system. Then it'd still be a quirk of the AI to invest in one of those on each planet, but at least it'd be useful rather than redundant.

PvK

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Hmm, on the point of High Energy Magnifier seeming worthless compared to Quantum torpedo V, I am thinking not, although I don't mind tweaking it a bit. HEM does less damage at same range and is 50% larger, but it used half the supplies per shot and has a +30 to-hit mod (which is a big deal). Also, HEM comes with the Shard Cannon X in one tech. A real comparison would of course look at the reasearch points and lower levels of the weapons, since in Proportions max levels are harder to achieve. In general though, I think the +30 to hit makes up for the lower damage and larger size. Opinions?

Edit: not to mention that on the way to getting HEM, you get crystalline torpedoes and energy dampeners. However, torp weapons are currently at 10K research base, while Crystal weaps are at 40K research base. Four times the cost, but you get four different weapon systems... all around, seems ok to me, but what do others think?

Any other balance issues anyone wants to mention before I get 1.6 ready?

One thing that is going to change is Phased Poloron Beams. I made them more difficult to research in 1.5, but I think I will now make them a little less difficult but start out with shorter and weaker Versions (shades of SE3) before building up to the current models.

PvK

[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: PvK ]</p>

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Ok, I didn't get 1.6 ready yet. I got a bunch done, and found several little silly issues with the AI running 1.5.3, so there will be a 1.5.4 and then a 1.6, now hopefully tomorrow.

PvK

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Here, at least, is a foretaste of what I've changed in 1.6 and fixed in 1.5.4, so far:


Version 1.6:

* Phased polaron beams extended with seven new lower-strength and
intermediate marks, and reduced in research difficulty from 1.5's
high cost.
* Added distribution centers, which are space ports with storage
depots in one facility. This should help compensate the AI for its
investment in redundant space port construction.
* Numerous adjustments to cultural modifiers. They are now almost
all mostly balanced, in theory, including "Neutral" culture.
* Increased cost of Natural Merchants trait to account for the extra
cultural center it generates.


Version 1.5.4:

* Corrected typo in the names of the Organic Generation Facilities.
* Stopped AI from illegally using satellite armor on non-satellites.
This shouldn't have happnened, but was mainly a cosmetic issue.
* Corrected tech requirements of AFV DUC's.
* Reduced shield generation on cultural facilities.
* Improved Amon'krie weapon selection.
* Fixed some apparently benign typos in Weapon Platform Computer Cores.
* Cosmetic fix - added troop tech requirements to AFV components.


PvK

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

PvK,

you wanted to reduce the size of self-defense cannons to make them an attaractive choice, didn't you? And I don't see it in your release notes... Sorry for being nitpicky; I want this to be a perfect mod! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I think their size should be 10 kT (compared with 20 kT for PDCs) because they only stop missiles and are not effective against fighters.

Aub

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Yes, Aub, I agree. The previous message just listed the things I finished Last night, but I'm not quite done. The PD and a few other things, I mean to add/adjust. This is a good moment to make suggestions.

Below are other things I may do if I get time tonight. This is my TDB list, though I may not get to it all tonight. Maybe I'll just do the things that affect early-game, and put the others in 1.6.1.

* Only allow homeworlds to start in planet-rich systems. Add some system types where this is not necessarily true, or where the reverse is true.
* Greatly increase non-domed planet capacities (by x 10 ?). (This was in Foundations but I just noticed it's not in Proportions yet, except for the extra cargo space of some facilities like cultural centers.)
* Adjust/spread fighter electronic warfare comps.
* Review and perhaps adjust some fighter weapons, high-energy weapons, temporal weapons, psychic weapons.
* Perhaps add yet another PD weapon, an anti-fighter beam with high to-hit but lower damage than PDC, and reduce to-hit bonus of PDC.
e.g.:
PDC 20kt, +40, cost ++
SDC 10kt, +?
LBC 15kt, +70, dmg --
* Add some shield/regen variants.
* Add some levels to ancient techs and require research to build them after discovery.
* Tweak AI some more.
* Tweak system abilities and system types some more.


PvK

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Another suggestion: could you include the "to-hit" bonus a weapon has ("Weapon Modifier") to its description? Otherwise, the only way to learn that, for example, Wave-Motion Guns have a +30 modifier is to look at the data file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Wow, a lot of stuff gets added. My only worry is that some of it is going to throw the mod off balace somehow... I guess I am a conservative here... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Aub

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Oh, yes, I meant to review all the to-hit mods and get them in the descriptions. I try to always add these, but there are a lot from the original SE4 set that never had any sign except in the data files (all high energy weapons, pdc, energy magnifier, etc.).

Hopefully the changes are improving the balance rather than making it worse - that's what they're all supposed to do - fix/reduce balance problems, rather than create them.

Do point stuff out if you see specific issues, please.

PvK

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Long time ago (2 years in fact !) and Galaxy far, far away (SE IV 1.0), both ships (with ion engines) and seekers have speed 3. It was not good and gradually seekers got up to speed 4 and then 5. Now, in Proportions, frigate with ion engines can have the battle speed of 5. Obviously, seekers need some boost too.

[ 29 March 2002: Message edited by: oleg ]</p>

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Short-range frigates (and other small ships) are faster, but larger ships are slower, especially if they have much strategic range (efficient engines). Since we can't use tactical combat, and there is no "run away from missiles" movement tactic for the tactical AI, I tend to think missiles don't need to be any faster, but maybe I'm wrong.

Any suggestions from players on if/how this might be addressed? Should there be faster higher-tech missiles, or a new parallel missile variant that is faster but weaker or lower-ranged?

I am already adding a Light Missile Launcher series to 1.6, which launches shorter-ranged, lower-warhead, easier-to-shoot-down missiles at ROF 1/turn, in order to reduce the tendency of PD to neutralize missiles (especially with the new self defense cannon), without making missiles the ultimate weapon. Since these are small, it'd be logical that they would be faster... sound like a reasonable counter to the higher small ship speeds?

PvK

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Yes, point defence-missiles issue is a very delicate balance. More than any other aspect in SE IV, IMHO. One wrong step and it is either uber-weapon or useless gimmics.

May be you should leave the speed as it is but increase the range ? Or damage resistance ?

We should also take into account the skewed research costs: military science 1 can be researched at turn 3, so point defence weapons are omnipresent from the very start of the game.

Re: Proportions mod 1.5.3 released
 

Yes. In Proportions it gets more complicated, I think. There are now cheap 10kT self-defense cannon, but they have only a 90% chance to hit missiles, won't hit fighters, and usually only get once chance to hit each incoming missile, while a full PDC frequently gets two shots. The PDC though can be hard-pressed to hit fighters, while the new PDB (beam) is usually pretty accurate against fighters, but often doesn't have the hitting power to take down missiles. Add drones, fighters with shields, electronic warfare, ship training, ships with different speeds, the fact most ship weapons usually won't hit fighters, light missile launchers, the fact that low techs are more accessible but higher techs are much less accessible, and the situation is quite complex.

I'll run a few tests, tweak a little, and I guess we'll find out if there's a problem. ;-)

I tend to think though that since full PDC are readily available, and are still very effective against seekers, that seekers will always be counter-able, although it may be harder (which I'd say was good). I'm more concerned about the balance with fighters, because they can be pretty dang hard to hit except with other fighters or specialized anti-fighter ships. As they should be, but we'll see if it becomes problematic.

PvK