Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

Hey, I'm beginning to more closely fine tune my race after playing a little bit, and would appreciate it if anyone would give me comments or suggestions on where I'm headed.

Atmosphere Breathed: Hydrogen
Home Planet Type: Gas

Culture: Scientists

Physical Strength: 50%
Intelligence: 120%
Cunning: 120%
Environmental Resistance: 100%
Reproduction: 100%
Happiness: 100%
Aggressiveness: 100%
Defensiveness: 80%
Political Savvy: 50%

Mining Aptitude: 119%
Farming Aptitude: 119%
Refining Aptitude: 86%
Construction Aptitude: 120%
Repair Aptitude: 100%
Maintenance Aptitude: 90%

Advanced Traits:
Temporal Knowledge
Organic Knowledge

Happiness Type: Peaceful

Notes:
Basically, I try to use the empire for heavily defensive with massive amounts of fighters (construction bonus + temporal ship yards + small electric discharge) as well as intelligence operations. The total comes to 2000 points.

Is this going to be possible to win with in a multiplayer game? And how can I improve the race? Please give any suggestions at all.

Notes 2:
By the way, if it matters I am playing on 1.60 gold.

[ 15 April 2002: Message edited by: Kin-Chan ]</p>

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

Do this:

Environmental Resistance: 81%
Reproduction: 103%
Happiness: 110%

You will get a few hundred extra points, and the only effect on your empire will be slightly increased happiness. Environmental Resistance affects the rate of reproduction and the happiness level, although in reduced amounts.

Cunning at 120% may be a bit of over kill. Generally, I encounter one of 2 situations with intel wars.
1) One empire is really far ahead of the other (as in 10x or so intel), and is able to pull off several successful missions per turn.
2) Both sides have large levels of intel and are thus capable of fending off all intel attacks.

Defensiveness at 80% will lead to situations were the enemy can go at max range and still have a good chance of hitting you, where as you can't really hit them.

Don't under-estimate trade. In PBW games, most players will have a lot of T&R Treaties. This could lead to a big advantage against you in games with lots of players.

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

You may want to decrease the number on Organic reproduction and put them to use on Radioactives Production.

Organic will be rarely use (even with Organic Components) compared to the amount you will use Radioactives and Minerals as Minerals make the bulk of stuff you need to spend on building anything and Radioactives on the high-tech essentials such as Shiled Generators/High energy discharge weapons and engines.

Organics will be used mostly on stuff for the people such as Buildings, Medical bays and Life support so you will need few organics.

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

The one thing you will want to realize is the whole numbers work best.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
Mining Aptitude: 119%
Farming Aptitude: 119%
Refining Aptitude: 86%
<hr></blockquote>

I would bring down Mining Aptitude to 115%
Farming down to 110%
and Refining up as much as possible with the left over points. Say 90 to 95%. You will want to keep this at a 100% if at all possible.

The rest looks great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I like to boost my race much the same as you have done here. Gives them more bang for the buck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

I agree with imperator about the defensiveness trait. Especially if your style of play is defensive. Your enemy can't kill you if they can't hit you.

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

I usually reduce my repair rate to 50%, research Reapair III and everything is fine (pump those points into research or construction or an advantage like Hardy Industrialists IMO). But then again I reduce my Cunning to 50% as well so I may just be crazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

I would definitly not reduce maintainance apptitude. I would trade off repair points for maintainance points. At normal settings about 2/3 of your budget will go for maintenance.

I would definitly boost happiness someway. Nothing is worse than having a system shut down and rioting due to an alien fleet sitting around doing nothing.


-----------------------------

OOPS, not that MOD!

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

I just wanted to respond to a few points from your responses:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Organic will be rarely use (even with Organic Components) compared to the amount you will use Radioactives and Minerals as Minerals make the bulk of stuff you need to spend on building anything and Radioactives on the high-tech essentials such as Shiled Generators/High energy discharge weapons and engines.<hr></blockquote>
Good point, after you pointed it out, I noticed it alot in my test game. Ended up having a big surplus of organics while having not enough minerals (even with the bonus) and radioactives. It's changed accordingly now.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Cunning at 120% may be a bit of over kill. Generally, I encounter one of 2 situations with intel wars.
1) One empire is really far ahead of the other (as in 10x or so intel), and is able to pull off several successful missions per turn.
2) Both sides have large levels of intel and are thus capable of fending off all intel attacks.<hr></blockquote>
I'm not really sure why I put cunning so high precisely. Still, I figure if I have more points, I can run like 12 missions at once that are low cost, or maybe several high cost ones also. So it will still be helpful hopefully.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Defensiveness at 80% will lead to situations were the enemy can go at max range and still have a good chance of hitting you, where as you can't really hit them.<hr></blockquote>
Good point, I'll boost that up.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I usually reduce my repair rate to 50%, research Reapair III and everything is fine <hr></blockquote>
That might be interesting, since I use so many fighters and mines, they shouldn't need repair anyways (since either full life or dead). I'll try that!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I would definitly not reduce maintainance apptitude. I would trade off repair points for maintainance points. At normal settings about 2/3 of your budget will go for maintenance. <hr></blockquote>
Less maintainance isn't such a big disadvantage for my style of play I think. Because fighters, mines, satellites all require 0 maintainance. So taking this penalty allows me to free up points at low penalty to myself.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Don't under-estimate trade. In PBW games, most players will have a lot of T&R Treaties. This could lead to a big advantage against you in games with lots of players.<hr></blockquote>
The only problem I have against treaties is that anything above non-aggression allows their ships to enter my space. This lets them circumvent my wormhole blockades and strike / colonize. Or is there a way to prevent that?

[ 16 April 2002: Message edited by: Kin-Chan ]</p>

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kin-Chan:
The only problem I have against treaties is that anything above non-aggression allows their ships to enter my space. This lets them circumvent my wormhole blockades and strike / colonize. Or is there a way to prevent that?<hr></blockquote>

Well... That's the point.
Anything above Non-Aggression is Not war so ships can enter and leave as they please.

But there are two ways.

One: Go into diplomatic isolation.
Two: Build ships that can close warp points; and close the warp points that connect your territory to others. If you want to keep in touch with the outside world, leave at least one warp point OPEN.

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

I don't know about that. I found that Stellar Manipulation ships are really, really expensive.

Anyways, can someone answer a quick question for me? How can a fighter fleet defeat a point defense fleet? Is it even possible? Argh. Strategies getting confused.

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

It can't fight off Point defense.

But there are ways to delay the destruction.

Install shield, armour and Fighter ECM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

Temporal + Organic is a good set up for fighters.
The often overlooked small time-distursion is a weapon of horror against big ships with heavy shielding. Just try to count how many small-electric discharges or DUCs are required to down 3-4 phased shield generator V and compare it with small time-distorsion.

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

2Oleg: Im going off topic, but there is such a thing as specialised ships and shield depleters.....

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

my opinions only, I would increase your population to at least 105%, I agree with Atrocities on increasing your Refining. Temporal trait uses more Radioactives then farming so if you are going to use both, try and make them fairly even in their resources or you will short one or the other.
Your set up looks good, it mostly depends on exactly what type of race you are trying to create. This in turn would dictate where you want to add or subtract your points. For example, if you want a strong defensive race, then these would be the areas you would increase, A strong aggressive race would in turn affect those areas. So it really boils down to what you want your race to be and what you want them to accomplish

just some ideas mac

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

I've found some Deeply Religious races become very annoying after they get the weapon talisman. The Narn, Norak and Vandron races both have lowered aggressiveness (less accurate direct fire) and heightened defensiveness. They tend to use missiles early on until they get Religious Tech 4 and the talisman. Then they become very frightening. Have to have Combat Sensor III's and a fully trained (+20%) fleet with fully trained (again +20%) ships to hit them with direct fire weapons. (And I think their point-defence gains the same benefits of the talisman. Argh.)

[ 16 April 2002: Message edited by: Sinapus ]</p>

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

If you're going to depend heavily on fighters then you should remember a couple of tricks.

1. Racial (and cultural) attack and defense bonuses don't affect fighters (not sure about other units though). So you might be justified in shaving a couple of points off and putting them elsewhere. If, that is, you think that you can suitably keep your carriers out of harms way.

2. You might want to try releasing your fighters *before* you enter combat. That way they attack as one group and don't get picked off by PD as they gradually stream into range.

3. This idea is only good for system defense. You can get around the 100 unit/sector limit by launching a larger amount all at once. So if you have 180 fighters on a planet, none in orbit, you can launch them all by using the 'move all' button. You can then move this monstrosity to a worp point or other area you want defended and fleet it with a conviently placed base (so that the fighters won't run out of supplies).

I hope some of this might be of help.

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

One thing to note about playing with the happiness figure: if you're using a Temporal race, you get the "Temporal Vacation Facility" (TVF), which gives the best happiness bonuses (+2%, +4%, and +6% for the various levels). So you might be able to get away with lowering happiness. The first facility I build in any new system is that TVF (and don't forget to build one on your homeworlds (or at least in your homeworld systems) as soon as possible).

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

The bonus for Vocational facility don't stack with Medical Labs, do they? Whenever I try to place a Vocational, it tells me there's already a facility with that ability.

PS: Anyone know whether putting more points into an intel project than necessary gives it higher chance to beat counter-intelligence?

For example, giving 100k points to a project requiring 10k.

[ 18 April 2002: Message edited by: Kin-Chan ]</p>

Re: Looking for Advice on Race Design
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
The bonus for Vocational facility don't stack with Medical Labs, do they? Whenever I try to place a Vocational, it tells me there's already a facility with that ability.<hr></blockquote>

They don't stack, however, if you ignore the warning and build both facilities anyway, the game will use the higher of the two happiness modifiers, so it is worth building them both if you have room.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
PS: Anyone know whether putting more points into an intel project than necessary gives it higher chance to beat counter-intelligence?
<hr></blockquote>

A project can't accept "extra" points. Allocating all those points to just one project will simply finish the project quicker and waste the excess points. The chances of it failing or being countered are unchanged. Hwever, if you invested the extra points into multiple copies of the same project, you increase the chance of overwhelming the counter-intel and succeeding.