Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

I have read the entire "A Pirate's life for me..." thread but now that I have my copy of SE4 Gold and P&N 3.0 I have to admit I am at a loss for how to transition the Nomads and Pirates from their initial planet to their destined roles. I decided that I would throw myself on the tender mercies of the board rather than sift through the entire Pirates thread. I also didn't want to confuse the Pirates thread with a sub-thread on newbie tactics. So without further ado here are a couple of questions to jumpstart the thread.

1. What are the initial steps required to start a Nomadic race on it's wanderlust?
2. What does quasi-newtonian propulsion mean for ship design and gameplay?
3. How adverse an effect on supplies do the parrot populations on pirate ships have?
4. What key do Pirates sing their ditties in?

Once again thanks in advance for your replies.

Texfire

[ 23 April 2002: Message edited by: Texfire ]</p>

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have read the entire "A Pirate's life for me..." <hr></blockquote>Wow! I admire your dedication!

1)
- Build mobile spaceyards.
You can get a mobile spaceyard on an escort, but in order to get your recycler node on as well, you'll need frigates. Research ship construction right away.
- Establish outPosts in Storm Systems.
A safe port of call is always welcome, and you can fleet with the base in order to resupply your ships and continue your journeys.
- Decide whether to play nice and make friends using your planet, or whether to capture ships for tech and lose your planet.
- Once you lose your planet, you lose contact with all races, and are immune to intel ops. This can be good or bad depending on your situation. Be sure to research troops and/or capture & mothball a colony ship before you desert your planet, or you will have a very hard time reestablishing contact later.

2) QNP means that in order to go the same speed, you must spend the same fraction of total space on your engines.
Researching engines can mean either faster ships, or same-speed ships with much more firepower/defenses.
What you get is a three-way tradeoff between Attack, Defense, and Speed. Any of them can be increased at the expense of the other two, and you will probably find a Rock-Paper-Scissors game somewhere among your options.

QNP also means that you will have more variety in your ships.
Low tech scout escorts in the PBW game I'm in are flying around at 11 Movement while carrying extra fuel. (No weapons or armor)
Heavy Ships-of-the-Line move slowly, but can carry More/Bigger guns and shielding/armor.
Interceptors will fast, but limited in firepower.

3) Pirate Parrots are a rare species indeed, but they are generally considered a symbiote. The Pirate Parrot rapidly precipitates cracker crumbs out of the zero-G environment, thus protecting vital systems, while the ship provides shelter for the Parrot. It all works quite nicely.

4) The most common Key sung by Pirates is the Skeleton Key. It is a very low key, powered by cosmic rays, and the songs are hummed by the skeletons of those who've walked the plank.

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

Going to start my first P&N game tonight now that I have gold, so it is good this thread popped up. I've been doing a little freshening up on my nebula strenghts, found some old threads on the topic. From experience I thought some of them were immune to all senors, and it turns out one is.

Someone must have mentioned this before, but I'll go ahead anyway.

In playing against the AI, if a said pirate were to establish a series of bases in a red nebula (I think these are the completely opaque kind), and subsequently lose all colonies and homeworld, thus making one immune to intel, then does it not follow, that the same pirate, unless he ventured out of his nebula, would never be in danger of completely being wiped out?

The reason being, I've never seen an AI use a nebula destroying weapon....

Am I right?

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

Yes and no.
If the pirate race never left the nebula, then it would quickly succumb to the ravages of maintenance with no income. You might be left with one or two vehicles by using your $1000 minimum income, but you would certainly be in no position to consider that anything other than a loss for you.

The same sort of thing occurs when a normal empire is left with only minefields, and are not completely destroyed.

Feel free to use the nebulae as a secure base of operations, but don't bother being a hermit, since the game will be quite boring if you do.

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Wow! I admire your dedication!

- Decide whether to play nice and make friends using your planet, or whether to capture ships for tech and lose your planet.

- Once you lose your planet, you lose contact with all races, and are immune to intel ops. This can be good or bad depending on your situation. Be sure to research troops and/or capture & mothball a colony ship before you desert your planet, or you will have a very hard time reestablishing contact later..<hr></blockquote>

Is there any other way to generate research points or do you have to capture any tech after losing your planet/research centers? Would this mean that a peaceful/nomadic race would have to mind it's P's and Q's and guard it's homeworld or stagnate?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>3) Pirate Parrots are a rare species indeed, but they are generally considered a symbiote. The Pirate Parrot rapidly precipitates cracker crumbs out of the zero-G environment, thus protecting vital systems, while the ship provides shelter for the Parrot. It all works quite nicely.

4) The most common Key sung by Pirates is the Skeleton Key. It is a very low key, powered by cosmic rays, and the songs are hummed by the skeletons of those who've walked the plank.<hr></blockquote>

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Is there any peaceful way to play a nomadic race or are pirates just nomads who are misunderstood? Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like the main goal while playing a nomadic race is survival and the main reason to play it is an opportunity to roleplay. As such it seems like it would shine as an adjunct in a PBW game.

Texfire

PS- Thanks Suicide Junkie for taking the time to answer my questions and especially the time it took to make this fascinating Mod. What is it, I wonder, in human nature that makes us fascinated with pirates?

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is there any other way to generate research points or do you have to capture any tech after losing your planet/research centers? Would this mean that a peaceful/nomadic race would have to mind it's P's and Q's and guard it's homeworld or stagnate?<hr></blockquote>Probably. You might arrange for an ally to allow you to capture one of his minor colonies in order to reestablish contact.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is there any peaceful way to play a nomadic race or are pirates just nomads who are misunderstood? Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like the main goal while playing a nomadic race is survival and the main reason to play it is an opportunity to roleplay. As such it seems like it would shine as an adjunct in a PBW game.<hr></blockquote>The answer to that is currently classified Top Secret. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Check your "My Profile" for a private message.

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

SJ,
Ok, where do I start...just the facts I guess.

Just shut down my first P&N game. I am sure you have heard a crap load of comments and complaints and hooplah, so I will try to keep mine short.

There is much I really really really like about the mod, no doubt. I played my first game as pirates, living my boyhood, and nerd-hood dream. Thanks for that. I played 1.67 with the P&N that came with the CD. I think that is the newest Version...

Anywho. I added neutrals to the first game, thinking they would be easy prey for my raiders, if one happened to be nearby. Only noticed after 25 turns that something was up. Game was set to where I could read all scores, and it became obvious that the neutrals can't select advance traits and so won't end up as regular. So five of the empires in the game were just pre-space civs. Oh well, live and learn.

Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but I noticed of the 8 real AIs, 3 or 4 were doing pretty much nothing. The Sallega, the Xi'Chung and the Drushocka. The Sallega never colonized one world and only kept one ship. The Xi'Chung colonized 10 or so worlds, but only had one ship, and the Drushocka had two worlds and one ship. Not sure what the problem here is, but I really had to quit the game, because there weren't any ships to steal. The Cue Cappa were in first, but they that was because they were the only empire that seemed to play at the same speed I am used to. (high difficulty, medium bonus) Is this something I did wrong. To start I created a new race for me and then let the computer rest.

The QNP are a real pain in the ***. Unless one researches propulsion and steller harnessing to get the sail, it's not worth getting larger ships for quite some time, as you'll end up filling 50 or 60 percent of it with engines. Just a thought...

Lemme see.

Just as I was about to quit, I started to ponder the end game of such a mod. How do you end your empire? A pirate really shouldn't have aspirations to conquer the galaxy...that would be too much a bureaucratic nightmare for his simple, unintelligible ways. I suppose I could start dropping troops on worlds, but after a while I wouldn't be a pirate anymore. Just curious as to how you advance the empires you play.

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The QNP are a real pain in the ***. Unless one researches propulsion and steller harnessing to get the sail, it's not worth getting larger ships for quite some time, as you'll end up filling 50 or 60 percent of it with engines. Just a thought...<hr></blockquote>The thing you might notice is that you are spending the exact same fraction of your space on engines whether it is an escort or a Battleship.
50% engines makes for a very fast ship: 8 or 9 movement with ion drives. For the larger ships in your fleet, sacrificing some of that speed can leave you a lot more weapon and shield space, while saving you thousands in radioactives.
The key to QNP is finding a balance of speed vs strength.
My dad likes to go all out on speed, and has an average ship speed near 11 MP.
I like to use slower ships, with moderate weaponry and huge defense systems. 5-6 MP is good for most of my ships.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Just as I was about to quit, I started to ponder the end game of such a mod. How do you end your empire? A pirate really shouldn't have aspirations to conquer the galaxy...that would be too much a bureaucratic nightmare for his simple, unintelligible ways. I suppose I could start dropping troops on worlds, but after a while I wouldn't be a pirate anymore. Just curious as to how you advance the empires you play.<hr></blockquote>I suppose the pirate's goal in life is to become fabulously wealthy and famous. Buy yourself a Luxurious Space Yacht, and a starbase-sized Mansion overlooking the 5th wonder of the galaxy.
Lead raids on unsuspecting creatures, and make yourself a personal zoo. Ensure that the dread pirate (insert name here) will be know throughout the galaxy for millenia to come!
Amassing a billion dollars worth of treasure would be a place to start!

Hmmm. If the AIs are sucking, there are a few things to try:
- Disable Quantum Reactors. I believe the CD Version has the prices higher than normal, and would account for much of the sitting around.
- Repatch the original AIs using my newest AI patcher. The way that racial trait purchases are made has changed, and in a number of cases, the AIs may not be getting the normal trait.
- Add the TDM AIs, using the AI patcher. This will definitely increase the difficulty, and the activity level of the galaxy.

Regarding the neutrals, I don't recall if I ever used the AI patcher on them. I never really considered using them.
Using the patcher should get them to the Space Age.

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

I will learn to use the patcher, Obi-wan.

I checked and all of the AIs did have the normal trait. Go figure. And I plan to add the TDM tonight.

Just another word about the QNP and pirate play. After a while I started building fleets of fast and slow ships. The slow ships had movement of 4 or 5, but were loaded down with shields and some moderate weapons. The fast smaller ships which moved at 11 or 12 had the pirate boarding parties with little or no shielding and no weapons. The big slow ships gave the enemy something to shoot at while the fast ones zipped in and boarded the enemy vessel. I doubt my bigger ships could win a battle on their own.

And I still don't quite understand the analyze estimate. I captured a colony ship from the Eee. I already had captured a colony ship from the Eee and got their gas colonization tech (though it didn't help at all). When I looked over the analyze possiblities, it said "minor" although I had everything the Eee ship had. So I just scrapped it. I suppose had I analyzed it, my question would now be answered, but then it didn't seem important. Now that I am at work and fatally bored, it seems all important.

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

1 quick question, this thread has gotten me interested in P&N. Started a game, and no yard facility, only a space port and resupply depot. storage and this is all, and no ability to build more.
How do you build ships? I have tried trading with the 1st empire I have met. Is this why I have heard this is a difficult way to play? I am currently downloading the image mode. Am I on the right track?
I could not see any mobile space your componet, reclamation componet. were these in the SE gold CD?

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

Never mind. I re-installed the mod, and now have the Pirate and Nomad under advanced traits. Musst have been a wierd glitch.

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Hmmm. If the AIs are sucking, there are a few things to try:

- Disable Quantum Reactors. I believe the CD Version has the prices higher than normal, and would account for much of the sitting around.

- Add the TDM AIs, using the AI patcher. This will definitely increase the difficulty, and the activity level of the galaxy.<hr></blockquote>

-To disable quantum reactors would you disallow a certain technology when setting up a game or is it more esoteric than that?

-Am I correct in assuming that I need to copy the TDM empires over into the P&N directory and then patch them?

Texfire

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:

...
- Add the TDM AIs, using the AI patcher. This will definitely increase the difficulty, and the activity level of the galaxy.

Regarding the neutrals, I don't recall if I ever used the AI patcher on them. I never really considered using them.
Using the patcher should get them to the Space Age.<hr></blockquote>

I suppose this a Non Gold to Gold AI patcher, where can I get this one ?

Thx

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PDF:


I suppose this a Non Gold to Gold AI patcher, where can I get this one ?

Thx<hr></blockquote>

I found a file called SJsLatestAIPatcher but it only supports up to P&N 2.0, so I am uncertain if it will work on 3.0

Texfire

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>-To disable quantum reactors would you disallow a certain technology when setting up a game or is it more esoteric than that?<hr></blockquote>In the game setup, you can turn off the resupply tech area (only provides emergency supply pods and QRs)
Or, you can search-find the QR in components.txt and increase the tech level required to 40 or something. This will leave the emergency supply pods in, but disable the QRs

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>-Am I correct in assuming that I need to copy the TDM empires over into the P&N directory and then patch them?<hr></blockquote>Yep. Easy as that.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I suppose this a Non Gold to Gold AI patcher, where can I get this one ?<hr></blockquote>The AI Patcher can be found on my P&N Downloads page.
The Patcher will change standard v1.49 AIs into P&N v2 (for SE4 v1.49) AIs, and will also change standard Gold AIs into P&N v3 AIs.

In the patcher, there is a dropdown list which allows you to choose which mod you want to patch the AIs for. The AIs need only work under unmodded SE4.

The "Latest AI Patcher" file here on shrapnel was broken when they changed over to the new message Boards. I haven't been able to update those links since http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

Went patch crazy Last night. Crap, between the two Versions of SE4 and all the mods I am up to a gig of SE4. That's definitely excessive.

Most of, I think they are, Atrocities' trek races produce a range check error in the patcher....ones that didn't were, Klingon, Romulan, and Vulcan.

Wasn't sure if the AI's were patched so I just won't use them.

FYI

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

Arg...

Ok, I have started another P&N game, and I am having the same problems as before with the AI. Large galaxy, 18 races, no neutrals, high bonus. I patched several from the TDM, and I repatched all of the stock races.

After 59 turns, someof the Ai, like the Orks, Vikings and Aquiliaeans are expanding like their normal bad *** selves. However, no one is building warships. They design them...but they don't build them.

I don't think a single AI has over 10 ships. I've looked over some of them, and all of the existing ships are colony ships.

I just don't get it. Some of the stock races still don't do anything but build one ship, build another, and scrap the first.....

Any ideas? I really like this mod and would like to play it, but how can you be a pirate if there are no ships to steal.

Many thanks

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

I just looked over the construction_vehicles.txt for the Orks, which I have in my game. They have 30+planets and no warships.

The AI patcher does something to this file. It combines several of the entries...like Infrustructure and Defense - short term.

Several other categories have been combined as well.

The two are separated by commas...the two names I mean, so it would read:

Infrustructure, Defense

Wonder if this is the problem???

Re: Pirates and Nomads opening strategies
 

ok three Posts in a damn row, and I am absolutely going crazy. I went back again to replace the two Ork constuction files and now, suddenly, they are the same.

THEY WERE DIFFERENT I TELL'S YA!!!

Insane!!!!!