seiv platinum: good idea?
 

I do remember Richard explicitly saying that there would not be a Platinum edition. Yet here I am, after several days of being unable to access this forum (move to new server and UBB upgrade may have caused that), seeing a vote taking place on which features should be in Platinum.

When Richard made his declaration, I was more worried that it would mean a limited number of future patches, but now I feel assured there will be at least a few more.

However, the lack of another release of SE4 does mean that at some point, MM will move on to another project, possibly but not necessarily SE5. A role playing game and a new type of game "within the Space Empires" universe was mentioned.

If Aaron does choose to produce SE5 however, I imagine it will mean several years of waiting while he recreates the game around a new GUI, new combat system, all kinds of new features perhaps. After all, MM is a very small company, and I have the impression from reading an old interview that Aaron has another full time job. Amazing how much he manages, isn't it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Might it not be preferable from our point of view then, for him to continue patching SE4, slowly modifying it into whatever he might like SE5 to be? Outside games, it is perfectly common for software companies to release Versions of software, and charge for each new (major) release. Most of the time, these new releases are not rewritten from the ground up, but by modifying and extending the existing code.

What do you all think? Would you guys prefer MM to release new Versions of SE4 every year to year and a half or so, along with a continuous series of patches? Or would you rather MM produce a new game from the ground up when Aaron feels he is ready to move on?

Of course in the end, it is all up to Aaron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 14, 2002, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Gaurav ]

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

The problem with doing that is that each succesive release further splinters what is an already small base to begin with. While Gold reportedly did very well, there are that small number of SEIV classic buyers who feel they "paid enough" and have no plans to buy it. An SEIV "Platinum" edition would no doubt do the same. You would end up with little Groups of people playing Versions of the game that were incompatible, unsupported and unpatchable.

I would much prefer to see Aaron continue producing patches for Gold until he feels comfortable with the end product. Hopefully the next few patches will add some more tools that modders can use. This would allow the fans to continue being creative and coming up with new and different mods for as long as we want, and allow Malfador to move on to newer and better things without having to support SEIV ad infinitum.

Of course this is just my personal opinion. I have no say in the matter.

Geoschmo

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

No there will NEVER be a SE:IV Platinum, because it doesn't make sense to do so and it is not good for customers. When we took on SE:IV originally part of the problem was that Aaron and Shrapnel were both in a hurry to finish it up due to fan complaints (anyone remember those http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), and of course later on we got hit by some of the fans for releasing it too early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

When the topic of Gold came out we considered just waiting for SE:5. The problem is we really wanted to support the fans in some meaningful way that would help Aaron stay in business. if you look at the PC Gamer review it points to our intent. We fixed almost every Last issue that folks complained about with the original package (ie major issues, not bugs or wanted items). We cleaned the manual up, we added some new art and sounds, we added TCP/IP play. We made SE:IV Gold what SE:IV probably should have been. So it is a good base to finish this game out on.

Aaron will continue to make patches as it is not a big deal to put in new features and issue a patch every couple of months or so while he is working on other projects.

Plus he has new things in the works with Dungeon Oddysey about to enter beta.

As far as the SE line goes the next game will be SE:Quandrant Wars which should be out by Winter of 2002 or Spring 2003. It will be something different for the series, but will be the basis for what we see in SE5.

SE:IV Gold is a good ending point because the SE series really needs to deal with the one knock to it, and that is that it is behind the times UI and graphics wise. I think SE5 will be the dream game eveyrone has wanted in the 4X space exploration universe.

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

SE:Quadrant Wars...sounds very interestering.

What kind of game is this going to be?

[ May 14, 2002, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

We'll have details on it later http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

Quadrant Wars? Is it gonna be a Starcraft Version of SE4?

[ June 16, 2003, 02:56: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

Who knows about that but maintaining patch production isn't a big deal as long as other games from Aaron are being ordered. So far we seem to be doing well.

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

Very interesting thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

IMO SE4 doesn't need Platinum or Titanium Edition http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , but a SCENARIO EDITOR would be most welcome...
What's lacking from SE4 is the ability to play with more consistent SciFi backgrounds, uneven settings (Star Wars type)or just situations outside of the "star race" standard.

Currently noone has done any satisfactory scenario AFAIK, and that's a pity because all other modding tools are here !
Basically if we could just setup "at start" techs, colonies, facilities and ships/units ...

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif &lt;snif&gt;&lt;snif&gt;You don't like the scenarios in the scenario pack released with Gold? &lt;snif&gt; I am hurt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I agree that a scenario editor would be nice. Unfortunatly, one of the only things Aaron has said for sure about the future is that we probably will NOT get one for SEIV. Apparently the economics of it considering the amount of work required to make a decent one just don't add up for Malfador as a company.

Interview with Aaron Hall on Space Empires.org <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">However, don't be too disapointed. You would be suprised at the depth and complexity of what can be accomplished in the area of scenarios, if you just apply a little work and a little ingenuity. My "Stranded!" scenario in the scenario pack was done in about 30 minutes.

Geoschmo

[ May 15, 2002, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Note: As far as I know the game date is clear text at the beginning of the file. Once it was created you could edit your scenario with a hex editor and reset the date to anything you wanted.

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

Geo,
My humble apologies, I didn't try your scenario http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif (I read the background, though...)

If it took you 30 min to do this, perhaps you can make a Star Wars setting in 3 hours, and Trek in 4 more ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
No ? damn ...

If Malfador isn't wanting to invest in an editor, why not letting fans do it themselves ? I suppose that if MM just gives away scen/save files structure we would have here some techies/nerds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif that could do an utility - look at the nice Component Modder we have ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

An editor for the Scenario text files would probably be fairly easy. Easier I think than the components files, and we have several of those floating around.

The savegame file itself would not be so easy. You would have to have the source code for the game itself I think, and I seriously doubt that is something Aaron is going to give away. He hasn't even done that for SE2 or SE3 yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

One of the things I like (hope it stays) is it's ability to run on older machines....I would like this to stay, I for one can not afford to buy a new machine every few months....Keep up the good work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why would be source code necessary ? IMHO only file structure would be - unless some weirdos compression algorithms are also used.
As an example look at what have been done with Baldur's Gate RPG : without any source code divulgation, fans did make impressive tools for EVERYTHING needed to make new adventures modules : NPCs, monsters, locations, items, plots, dialogues...

But well, I'd be unable to do any of this, so perhaps I'm just dreaming... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You most definitely would NOT need the source code to make a savegame file editor. All that Aaron would need to supply would be an explanation of the savegame file's format, which would take him a few hours, at most. This would allow an interested 3rd party to make an editor. There are some issues that would need to be dealt with in order to prevent slimeballs from using the editor to cheat. But nothing that couldn't be handled pretty easily with a few lines of code and a nondisclosure agreement. The truth is, that SE is Aaron's baby and he doesn't want to let anyone else hold her. Understandable to some extent, but ultimately detrimental to the child.

(Caveat: I know that SE is not really a child. It is Aaron's intellectual property. So society has no say in what he does with it, other than to vote with our feet and money. It just bugs me to see a fine piece of workmanship not fulfill its potential, and hear people make lame excuses for the artisan.)

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

dmm,
Till now Aaron seems to have been quite open to allow any tweak/modding of the game. He even went as far as allowing players to CREATE scenarios, but did not supply the editor, seemingly out of time/business interest.
Additionnally it even looks like he authorized Hadrian Aventine to SELL his mods, that are made out of SE4 engine !

Perhaps I'm naive but I think he won't rebutt plea for giving info allowing 3rd parties to make this editor.

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

Dmm, I was not intending to make lame excuses. The fact is I know absolutly nothing about programming and what would be neccesary for such a scenario editor to be created. I was simply making an uneducated guess, as noted by my use of the words "I think".

I am on the same side as anyone who thinks a scenario editor would be a nice thing to have. However, I am also one of the few here who has not limited myself to wishing for a scenrio editor and actually made several scenarios, notwithstanding the current limitations.

Given a little time and work, I believe there is quite literally nothing that is possible in SE4 that cannot be setup in a scenario, with the exception of having it all setup and ready on turn 2400.0, if that is importatnt to you.

Would a bonified scenario editor make this process quicker and easier. Absolutely!

Is it possible to do without one? I think I and a few others have proven that as well.

I am one who prefers to do rather than complain, so when I make suggestions on this forum about ways to get around preceived or real problems, it is not because I am some kind of "Malfador groupie" or something. I just like doing things myself.

Forgive me if the tone of this post appears harsh. I am not trying to be harsh, only clear and direct.

Geoschmo

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

I would like to see a scenario editor for SE:IV but that seems most unlikely. As I have suggested before having starting tech levels as an option in game setup would be far easier to add (since he has existing code) and would almost solve 75% of the needs of scenario makers.

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

geoschmo: No problem, I didn't take your reply as harsh. I didn't mean to be harsh with you either, nor to accuse you of groupie-ness, nor to be ungrateful for the clever scenario workarounds that you and others have come up with. I'm just frustrated.

A savegame file editor (SGFE) would allow many things that a simple startup scenario can't do at all. A few examples:
1) Doing combat outside of SEIV and then forcing that onto the current game with the SGFE. Or having "house rules" for things like retreat.
2) Allowing events to occur that are not possible otherwise. Examples: Monster attack; extragalactic invaders; shifting warp point connections; unanticipated research breakthrough; civil war; mercenaries; pirates.
3) Allowing events to occur due to triggers rather than randomly. (The triggers don't have to be automatically scripted by SEIV. A human "galaxy master" or a GM program could handle that.)

OK, you get the idea.

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

Ok, I think I see where you are going with this. You are more interested in stepping into the middle of a game and making changes than you are actualy setting things up frmo the beginning.

These things are all actually possible without an editor, with a little creative setup beforhand and some "cooperation" from the players. But yes it would be more efficent with an editor.

I was actuially having a discussion just the other day with another modder about the posibility of setting up a game with a galaxy master that is actually a "Super Empire" that has access to tech and intel projects that the players don't have. You could use these intel attacks as non-random "events". Destroying ships, civil wars, etc. You could even do intel with negative values that would confer "blessings" upon specific races, planets, etc.

Geoschmo

Re: seiv platinum: good idea?
 

edit, nevermind. I already found the answer below.

[ June 16, 2003, 02:59: Message edited by: General Talashar ]