Damm Range Check Errors
 

I am so tired of RCE's, I'm running the latest ver of gold with the TDM mod pack. Turn 150ish, during the AI's turn, BOOM, RCE, I am sure it's fighter related, but does anyone know if MM can kill the RCE issue ? It sure is getting old.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

RCE's happen for a variety of reasons and as Aaron is made aware of each INDIVIDUAL issue he will fix them.

My advice is to send in your save game and give him your info on your machine, especially about any background processes, and what mods you have installed.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

hmm, I haven't had any RCE's in my Last several games. I used to get them quite often but it seems mose have been cleared by the patches. One thing you may want to ck, try and turn off or disable some of the programs that are running in the backround when your playing. If your not on the net when playing, disable your virus checker, I found this does make a difference sometimes, don't know why but it has.

just some ideas mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

yeah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif windows is multitasking environment but you must run only one program at a time if you want programs to run as expected :-)

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

The fighter bug strikes again.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Actually, I think I've discovered another type of RCE; on two separate occasions I've had an RCE occur when I've given orders to a ship/fleet to move through a sector that was clear when I issued the order, but was later occupied by an enemy ship/fleet. Clearing the ship/fleet orders, ending the turn, and then re-issuing the orders clears the RCE.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

DT, I havn't seen that one yet, but thanks for the heads up, I'll watch for it...appreciate the info....

be careful, be very very careful
look to the sky
its "THEM"

just some ideas mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Hmmm... when I get these, the game freezes & I have to Alt+Cntrl+Del out of the game. If there are a lot of these RCE's.. it might prove to be a real hinderance to IP play.

Dog

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

I wouldn't say there are many RCE's... I've only gotten an RCE twice since I started playing SE4 (and I bought the game within a month or two of Shrapnel offering it). So your game should be relatively safe.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Thanks for all the advise, but I allways zap all of my background jobs before starting to play SE4. My Last RCE was drone related but the Last patch seemed to fix that problem. I have seen the fighter RCE for a while now (pre gold) and it is getting better with each patch. I was under the impression that the fighter RCE was a single bug, guess not.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

The only RCEs I've gotten since Gold was released were caused by my own mistake in trying to mod something.

I honestly can't remember how long ago my Last pre-Gold RCE was; I've never gotten anywhere near the number some other people have.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Just my opinion, but I wonder if the RCE's are due to various operating systems, In other words, some of us have had quite or above normal RCE's while others few or none at all, and yet its the same game. I'm not saying this could be a cause, , but I just wonder if different operating systems affect the game in different ways ?? I leave this up to those of the members that are much more computer literate then I am, but is it a possibility????

be careful, be very very careful
look to the sky
its "THEM"

just some ideas mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that's not just possible, but the likely cause. It certainly seems to me that Win98 and WinME produce more reports of RCEs than Win95 does.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not to sure about that. I run SEIV Gold primarily on my Win98 gaming system with no errors since the Last patch. I always have the forum running in the background and Winamp playing my 10Gig collection of MP3's. I also run SEIV Gold on my Win2k laptop, also with no errors since the Last patch (1.67). I personally believe that it is caused by hardware and software configurations (ie: not all hardware and software are as compatable as people may think), which better explains why some are plagued by it while others don't see it. There are a variety of things you can do to "tweak" your system to be more complacent to RCE's and IPF's, but they generally involve some level of registry editing so are not appealling to the general public. I carry most of these "tweaks" in my arsenal of CD's, so I could post a couple of the more important ones, if desired, with the complete understanding that, without looking at your particular configuration, I can offer no guarantee as to their effectiveness or stability on your particular system.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Found I a RCE I haven't read about on the forum before...a modded error though.

Just as there is a max number of systems that is safe, so there is a minimum also. I'm not sure what it is though. I set it to five, three and one. Got RCE on all. Although I was able to start several games on 3 and 5 that didn't get the error.

go figure

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

It could be both, systems and/or software hardware problems. It just seems to me when a number of gamers posted RCE's, index errors, etc, more so before the latest patches, it appeared they were mostly of the same type of operating system. Possibly a poll of say the different operating systems, graphics card, etc, in order to see if there possibly is some type of connection. The patches have cleared up a lot of those from before but they still do appear tho less frequently, but again more so in specific systems.. hmm

Gandalph, your offer is much appreciated and I'm sure will be well received if you want to post. Especially from those of us who are computer illieterate and don't understand or know a Bios from a tigga's tail...

just some ideas mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Another consideration would be brand of system. Many off-the-shelf type systems (ie: Compaq, HP, Emachine, etc.) care more about self promotion than they do about PC optimization. I have seen these types of systems come out of the box with less than 50% resources free due to brand specific garbage being loaded at system start up. Personally I find that extremely annoying, although profitable when those systems take a dive a year later when the consumer adds the latest 3D game to their system and it all comes tumbling down.

About the tweaks, I will post them with a disclaimer and include them in my sig, or perhaps a new thread (not sure how to proceed with that).

EDIT - Damn typo's, and I even previewed this one!

[ May 17, 2002, 20:27: Message edited by: Gandalph ]

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

There was a thread a few months ago where some RCE's were traced directly to a series of Dell laptops, so there are definitely some hardware (& possibly OS) issues out there...

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Hmm, interesting. Why would the hardware matter? I mean, my programming skills are C and Basic (not VBasic, just Commodore 64 Basic... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) so I can't really say, but as I understand the Windows enviroment, you don't write directly to the hardware, but rather to the OS. If this is true then the hardware shouldn't matter at all. Of course, this is assuming the programming is done correctly. If shortcuts are taken, and the game is writing directly to the hardware, then all bets are off. This could, of course, explain why there is no wheel mouse support...

Derek

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

[quote]Originally posted by Derek:
&lt;snip&gt;Why would the hardware matter?&lt;snip&gt;

That is a question that a lowly PC Tech like me cannot answer, I only know for sure that it does. As an example, I had a system go haywire on me that took me 3 weeks to figure out that Macafee AV and the LS 120 Superdrive could not get along in the same system.

Having built 1,000's of new and used systems, I can definitely tell you that some hardware/software configurations just don't get along, and there seems to be no rhyme or reason for it. I would suspect the way the Windows HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) communicates between the hardware and the software's API(Application Programming Interface, IIRC), but alas, I am not an Engineer. They get paid WAY more to screw the things up that I get to fix.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

"I can't really say, but as I understand the Windows enviroment, you don't write directly to the hardware, but rather to the OS. If this is true then the hardware shouldn't matter at all."

This assumes the hardware plays nicely together in the first place. Not always.. sometimes components don't like each other, but only show it in taking up more resourses, crashing at odd times, etc.

Case in point: Mechcommander 2. I think someone tried to get a little too tight with their code on that one, and didn't leave much room for error. The end result is that if your system is even SLIGHTLY off what MC2 expects it to do, it'll run like crap. The game was running better on some people's PII 400s than their new machines, better and higher (HIGHER) resolution on some machines, etc.

Phoenix-D

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

I haven't gotten any RCE's since January/February 2001 (except in the B5 mod but that don't count...yet since it is design & testing stage)...

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

In the poll thread, it appears that the majority of the forum members (at least so far) build their own systems, so is this a correlation to the RCE's, index errors etc. Reason - when one builds their unit they apply a combination of various hardware software operating systems. It would be interesting if in the poll the question was also asked as to who experienced numerous, medium, fair or none etc in regards to the RCE's along with which type of computer they used. Example only

Home made comp, Windows 982E, Nivida, 128 mem, 733, medium amt of RCE's

Dell laptop 256 mem, Win 2000, ati numerous

this might give us more of a possible insight into systems vs hardware software, or both.

my opinion only

just some ideas mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

The poll does not allow correlation of the questions. I could have added RCE, but would only end up seeing how many people are bothered with it, not what type of system configuration. This is something that would have to be done by hand in a question thread much like jimbob's SEIV Platinum thread.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Here's a question, Has anyone ever seen an RCE in any other application software, I have not. I think that this is an application issue rather then an O/S one.

Not that system config would not have an impact on the RCE problem, but as I see it, there is some bug(s) in the SE4 code.

I would guess that an RCE is like an invalid table (matrix) lookup. Dim a table to 10,000 and then read index location 10,001. Boom, RCE.

Any thoughts?

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

[ May 19, 2002, 07:31: Message edited by: RWittman ]

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

"I would guess that an RCE is like an invalid table (matrix) lookup. Dim a table to 10,000 and then read index location 10,001. Boom, RCE."

Pretty much. It's not so much of an issue in other programs because SE4 has some tighter limits (which, I should note, rarely get hit in the unmodded game) and is both more and less flexible with modding. That and the AI cheats like a mofo on designs- it doesn't CARE about limits the human player has to abide by. You can have an AI stick twenty bridges, four space yards, and 200 engines on a ship if you do it right..

Phoenix-D

Phoenix-D

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

"I would guess that an RCE is like an invalid table (matrix) lookup. Dim a table to 10,000 and then read index location 10,001. Boom, RCE."

Pretty much. It's not so much of an issue in other programs because SE4 has some tighter limits (which, I should note, rarely get hit in the unmodded game) and is both more and less flexible with modding. That and the AI cheats like a mofo on designs- it doesn't CARE about limits the human player has to abide by. You can have an AI stick twenty bridges, four space yards, and 200 engines on a ship if you do it right..

Phoenix-D

Phoenix-D

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Speak of the devil, it has been said.

Started a new Gold game over the weekend and about 30 turns in...BAM...RCE. And I forgot to enable the autosave....crap.

To add to the poll:
Dell desktop
WIN ME
550mhz p3

First non-mod RCE I've had since about a month after I bought the game, which was Apr '01.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Game/programming gurus: Question for those with knowledge in this area: I keep getting RCE's in the B5 mod, always involves the design minister. There are several pics missing for components. Would these missing pics be a possible cause of the RCE's? Wondering since when I right click on them with mouse button the PC locks and I have to ctl-atl-del and end task to free up again.

Me uses WIN98 SE with Athalon 500 mhz cpu/256 MB pci-100 RAM (ASUS K7M Motherboard).

[ May 21, 2002, 00:32: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

I swear these metal mechanical beastie machines have a life of their own and just love to introduce Gremlins to frustrate us gamers. Prior to posting in this thread I did not have a single RCE for ages. Right after I posted, booted up my current game and wham 2 RCE's back to back, I am now saving just before ending each turn or two.
ugh...... Playing TDM Mod Pack 3.0

Dell, B733 XPS desktop, 128 RDRam, 64DDR Geoforce 4x agp, Windows 98 2E, PIII

be careful, be very very careful
look to the sky
its "THEM"

just some ideas Mac

[ May 21, 2002, 04:10: Message edited by: mac5732 ]

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

What i've watched so far:
An RCE occures every time the value for a variable (byte, word, double-word) gets to big. Like setting "max number of systems" to 256 in settings.txt. This wouldn't be a problem if it is defined as word.
So my gues is:
Many Race-Styles and mods modify values and some programm calculations (like damage where random values are used) result in values not allowed by the variable definitions.
I don't think this are bugs in some of the mods or the game.
I simply think there are some combinations and results possible the developers haven't foreseen by allowing nearly everything to be modded (and that's realy understandable)

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

How about we make a list of things known to make RCEs?

1- more than 255 standard movement points (not SHIP movement points, the total made by the engines). Only applies in QNP or similar, and the cause of many AI problems.
2- more than 255 systems

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Say, does anybody know offhand at what point in a turn an autosave is saved?

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

When the Turn begins.

You set it to 1 turns autosave and get an RCE the next, you start from scratch: one turn behind.

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

I agree with PhoenixD's idea of listing things that cause RCE's. Even tho I'm not literate in the internal workings of these infernal machines, I am able to explain what was taking place at the time I received RCE and the experts here hopefully would be able to decipher and record the info for the list

just some ideas mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Has anyone been getting a lot of index errors as well?, I've just started getting more then usual, usually when involving firing captured wps from captured planets while the battle is still raging around it... almost similiar to some of the RCE's I was getting before, hmmmm

madly reading up on techincal inserts mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

MAC: Yeah, got one (index error) earlier today when a 60+ enemy fleet came into the warp point my fleet was in... index error when I hit the "resolve" combat button in tactical mode...

[ May 27, 2002, 18:25: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

I'm beginning to think that its more of a capability problem with the AI, it seems that when certain functions take place, for some reason the ai freaks out, from reading this and other threads for who knows how long, it appears that the RCE's and Index errors are usually in or similiar in regards to what functions are being done at that time. I don't think its memory related as everyone seems to have lots of that on their systems, nor do I think it has to do with speed. hmmmm

mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Got another index error when I hit close after ground combat on one of my planets...

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

I'm no expert, (thats for sure), but i'm trying to look for patterns or similiar possiblities, Possibly, they have to do with numbers. In my most recent one, There were over 130+ ships combined in the fight, I had captured the planet and turned their wp's against his ships, again, the planet had severl dozen beam and converters, they worked for 3 tactical turns and then the error. Hmm, Going back and looking at some of my other games, it now dawns on me, that it always happened when I had in excess of 1 1/2 - 2 dozen ships or units. hmmmmm I'll leave it for the experts here and see what they think... most curious. I don't know if there is any correlation but I'll keep looking, Anyone else have any insight or if you remember what was going on at the time you got your RCE or Index error, was it anything similiar as regards numbers as Pathfinder and myself??? It would be nice to eliminate these cracker box pain in the neck errors. Its not the game, its has to be something unique that triggers them, I know they happen but I'm just trying to find out why or what might be the cause...

a learning mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

Go figger: RCE when I engaged enemy planet with planet bombardment weapons from a cruiser....came back and did strategic instead of tactical/manual and voila...ded planet & no RCE.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

switched sides to enemy, checked to allow design minster "on" , end turn...RCE....this is B5 mod, so no telling WTH the AI is doing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

my current game is tdm 3.0, went back and experimented, went to stratgic combat on same planet i had index error, same, dead planet, no index or rce. so took my fleet went to a second planet in same system, did same in tactical as the lst one, again after capturing planet, went i went to use its weapons, Index error, comp lock up, so went back, did strategic, no problem, went to a third planet, again tactical, again cap planet, again index upon using its wps., went back initiated combat with enemy fleet of 60 ships, I had 63, in same system, foughy most of the way thru, turn 17, used e button to speed up, index error. hmmmmmmmmmm,

still testing mac

Re: Damm Range Check Errors
 

RCE: When some player use the non-standard culture.txt [in some of the StarTrek empire files] in PBW, the others want to see the race info, then RCE appear.