Drones
 

OK, I got Gold, so now I'm thinking:

"What possible use are Drones?"

Given what it costs to make them, aren't you better off with ships?

Is it that they don't require maintenance?

As far as I can see they're hellishly expensive missiles with a long range. Anyone got anything good to say about them?

Steve.

Re: Drones
 

Well, like you say, they're better than ships because they require no maintenance. You can build up a huge store of them in peacetime, ready for when the fighting starts.

They're better than missiles because they can be launched outside of combat.

They're better than fighters because they use "grown up" weapons and components instead of those poxy miniaturised fighter ones.

They're better than sats because they move.

(Of course, when I say "they're better than...", I mean "the advantage they have is..." - I'm not suggesting than ships, sats, missiles and fighters are now obselete.)

Re: Drones
 

I don't much like drones... in peace time mothballed ships doesn't cost much in maintenance neither and are more versatile.
Fighters have mini weapons, ok, but you have MANY fighters for the cost of 1 drone, and they don't have maintenance either...

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, but your allies can see your fleet of mothballed ships in orbit above your planet. Your drones are hidden=-)

Drones have also given modders a new toy to play with=-)

Re: Drones
 

If your opponent has you outclassed in other techs, drones can kill ships that could otherwise rip through your main fleet.

I've got one solo game where my drones have destroyed more than twice their own tonnage lost.

Re: Drones
 

Fine & dandy all, but is half-a-dozen 100kT Drones better than a 600kT Battlecruiser? Your BC is going to be more versatile, and can be refitted.

I can see the maintenance aspect; but I confess that in most games I play I have an overabundance of material until I start atmosphere conVersions.

At that point I'll normally have a high-speed fleet with a warp-point creator - and a closer - available. Max reaction time: 2-3 moves to any part of the empire, and I'll have closed off some warp points in order to create choke-points.

So I still maintain a surplus. I guess I'll have to play around with Drones to find out if they're worthwhile: I suspect however that if you're down to reliance on Drones defensively you've already got problems.

Mind you, I said I thought Drones were just big, expensive missiles: when they hit they're big, expensive, effective missiles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Those special warheads look nasty !

Re: Drones
 

The use of Drones, in my opinion, depends on the current game you are playing. In some games, mabye they're not worth it, in another one just the opposite. an Example, in my lst 2 games of gold, un-modded, I didn't use drones, however the AI did pound some of my ships and planets in the early stages but after I increased my PD's they were less affective. However, in my current game, TDM-Modpack (my lst tdm game), I am currently building drone carriers and drone starbases as the Toran are pushing extremly hard and I found that a good tactic against their waves of DN's is starbases, fleet, and drones. Yes they are expensive but they build faster then a DN, and are excellent in masses for defense of Wormholes.
You can employ large numbers cheaper then large numbers of ships. They also use up the AI's Point defense allowing you to then launch fighters or seekers against their ships. The AI has also launced against my planets as well. They are also good to have on planets, especially those with high cargo space to launch and pick off enemy ships that are in ones or twos going thru your system, this does free up those desperatly needed ships for your main fronts. I guess It depends on the game and where in the game you are and what the AI or human players are using against you. Like I said earlier it really depends on the game that you are currently playing. Some games more use, others little use... Up to you

just some ideas mac

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I used this tactic as well; but even sneakier. I built a spaceyard base and a drone-launcher base in the uncolonized systems scattered throughout a partner AI's territory (asteroid systems, nebula/storm systems). Then, when the AI finally declared war, I had drones ready to launch at his small colonies and undefended colony/transport ships. Not very nice of me, but I was testing tactics for future use... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Drones
 

I am playing a game where I am able to use drones as intestellar Missles. It sort of works but you have to have spy ships in the target system to use them. If your Physic(sighkick) you can also put converters on them. I am slowly beginning to think they are defensive weapons primarily. And mostly useful in large numbers.

Re: Drones
 

DT, good idea there, question, can you cloak a starbase?? Never tried it but thought i'd just ask, It most definitly is sneaky, espeically against human player, hmmmmmmmm

just some ideas mac

Re: Drones
 

You can cloak a starbase, yes. You can also build them in sensor-obscuring storms.

Another good thing about drones is they are one of the few things that can (at high tech levels) absorb large amounts of PD. A combined strike of well-shielded drones and fighters and seeker weapons can overwhelm the PD of a fleet that would have been thought immune to fighters and seekers in SE4.

PvK

Re: Drones
 

Wait, I'm missing something.

I wasn't aware that drones could move on the main map! I thought they were tactical only.

How do you launch/target them, how do you move them?

(Whole realms of possibilities open..)

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's kind of the point of them... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just like launching fighters, sats or mines. You can't use the "move" command on them though, only "attack". This is a bit of a pain in the arse, since it means you can only attack things you can see.

Oh, and once they have received their orders, they can't be recalled or reclaimned or given new orders. (Except maybe self-destruct. )

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's mostly true. If you send multiple drones to attack a target (remember, you can use shift-click to select multiple drones/ships/etc.), and some of the drones survive the battle, those survivors can be given new attack orders.

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you can't build the Battlecruiser, yes.

In the solo game that I mentioned, the Cue Kappa and Drushocka were both throwing fleets of Light Cruisers at me before my first Destroyer was built.

Re: Drones
 

Cap is right, especially in early part of the game before you get your ship construction up to the higher levels, one way to help defend yourself would be with drones and ftrs.. My opinion only. It comes down to where your at as far as research and what you can afford to build especially if your at war. If at peace you have the time to build your BC, if at war you may want something you can build faster.

just some ideas mac

Re: Drones
 

Well, thanks for the replies, guys.

I guess I'll just have to try a few things and see how they work.

I also believe that if I'd tried looking in the html manual first instead of the printed one I'd have had my questions answered without bothering you folks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Steve.

Re: Drones
 

I haven't played gold too much but drones are really useful IMHO if you need fast defense but wiht some offensive capanility, kinda like mines at new colony only able to hit anythign tha tmoves in the system. And when transitioning from war to peace htey can make a big diff cause large stockpiles dont' take any maintaince IIRC and can be unleashed while u build up your fleets to war levels.

Re: Drones
 

Are drones effected by mines? As in, can you hit heavily mined planets with drones or breeze through mined way points? I have used them at all, but will have to check them out.

Re: Drones
 

Drones trigger mines. This is very bad for game balance because drones are units. As there is no partial unit damage you can sweep every possible mine field with a single drone that has more than 300 damage resistance. A medium drone with some armor is enough. Time to scrap your mine sweepers?

Re: Drones
 

The new patch is supposed to fix this: mine damage from multiple warheads accumulates.

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can change this in the settings file.

Re: Drones
 

I don't think so. More likely your second colony was just outside the range that Rage resupply minister was thinking is prudent. Sometimes you can easily detect the invisible resupply radius of AI: Mighty AI fleet turns back one sector away from your frigate but once you move forward it get smashed.

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it can. I had previously reported that an AI snaked through my defended planets to attack the only one that had no weapons platforms. In a recent game, the AI moved an attack fleet into one of my systems - headed straight for an undefended planet. I saved the game, and emergency-built a wp on that planet. The AI turned and attacked another undefended planet. I loaded the saved game and built a wp on that planet also. It then attacked a third planet. I found that I could control where the AI attacked by which planet I left undefended. When I built wp's on all undefended planets, it attacked the planet with an older, obsolete wp. So, yes, it does know what defenses you have in cargo.

Re: Drones
 

And just when oleg had started to convince me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Actually I didn't find proof either way in my game, but that tiny planet with one cargo facility is proving one hell of a speed bump for the AI even if it does "smell" my defenses.

Actually I'm having lots of fun with drones from that colony now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ... it's a little expensive, but I have enough resources that it is definately worth it.

Just need to build some sats with solar panels now to refuel ships on that planet (damn tiny piece of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

--
AeoN2
--
Korman's conclusion:
The trouble with resisting temptation is it may
never come your way again.

Re: Drones
 

AeoN2, you could have launched your Drone and attacked the Frigate before he got out system, you probably would have taken him out.

Also in regards to mines, I'm playing TDM 3.0, the Toran have sent drones into my systems, however, they have not triggered minefields that I had on my wormhole or over my planets. It showed the number coming in and then the same number when it attacked, I cke'd both in Strategic and in Tactical and mines were still there afterwords....

In regardst to drones, current game, late, only myself(2), Toran(1) and the Aquilan(3) left, Toran attacking in waves of Dn's & some baseships every once in awhile and I found drone carriers most excellent to help keep your fleets alive. Example, one of the Last battles i had, Toran attacked with 110 DN's, My fleet consisted of 51 ships including DN's, BC's, CA's and 6 Drone CV's. I launched 60+ drones in the battle and they most definitily made a difference. with their help took out his whole fleet even tho I had about 16 ships left with some damaged....

I didn't use drones a lot before, but now all my fleets have drone cv's especially those on wormhole defense...

just some ideas mac

Re: Drones
 

Krakenup, it is interesting observation.
I did't see anything like this in my games.
Very often it attacks my well defended planets
and skip defenseless. Did anybody else noticed this AI cheeting ?

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I started doing that after my first post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif that is what has been so fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And I got to try them out to take out small colonies he built too.

But now I'm dissapointed, my sat's with solar collectors aren't resupplying my fleet in the same sector at all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif why doesn't that work?

--
AeoN2
--
Gerrold's Fundamental Truth:
It's a good thing money can't buy happiness.
We couldn't stand the commercials.

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's a surprise for me too. I have not seen this cheating.

[ May 30, 2002, 17:02: Message edited by: Q ]

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Solar collectors aren't like Resupply depots. They don't refuel everything int the same sector. They only refuel the vehicle they are on. You can share fuel between vehicles in a fleet, but you cannot fleet sats, so this will not work either. You may be able to have a few refuel sats share fuel with all the sats in their unit group. Haven't tested that. It's unneccesary currently, but after the next patch when weapons stop firing when supply is gone this might be something worth doing, assuming the sat weapons actually use supply. I am not sure that's working right either.
Geoschmo

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Solar collectors aren't like Resupply depots. They don't refuel everything int the same sector. They only refuel the vehicle they are on. You can share fuel between vehicles in a fleet, but you cannot fleet sats, so this will not work either. You may be able to have a few refuel sats share fuel with all the sats in their unit group. Haven't tested that. It's unneccesary currently, but after the next patch when weapons stop firing when supply is gone this might be something worth doing, assuming the sat weapons actually use supply. I am not sure that's working right either.
Geoschmo[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sats don't need resupply. At least right now. Is there a change in the works? It'd be awfully messy if sats did need resupply. I hope this isn't changed. I think the AI would be completely unable to handle resupplying sats, and possibly not even bases.

Re: Drones
 

Geo, lst I agreee with the Baron On the Sats supply question, I think this would create a mess.

2nd what if you built a large Sat, put a Supply or 2 on it it maybe even a solar panel, build say 5-10 of these, fleet comes up, hit the join fleet button, sats go into the fleet, would they then include their total supply towards the supply of that fleet??? The fleet won't be allowed to move because of the sats, but after a turn or two, wouldn't their stored supply be used towards the fleet? Then fleet would hit the button again, put the sats back, and go on their way with new supply, Sats would then have to use solar panels to resupply the supply pods.???

I hope I explained what I meant the right way....

just a curious Mac

[ May 30, 2002, 18:15: Message edited by: mac5732 ]

Re: Drones
 

Oh, I totally agree sats needing supply would be a BIG mess. I was not advocating it at all. The messiness of it all may be why they dont need resupply to begin with, because if you read the information at the top of the Vehiclesize.txt file it sounds as if it was written at a time when they did use supply. It may have been patched out very early becasue of the impracticality of resupplying them.

I was simply addressing the question of putting solar collectors on sats. I was pointing out that it's useless now, but might not be with the next patch, since weapons will not fire when supply is gone.

Of course this may not affect sats at all if the supply doesn't actually get used when they fire the way it does on ships. It was more of a hypothetical discussion than a realistic one.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This cannot be done because you cannot fleet with sats. It wont' let you.

Geoschmo

[ May 30, 2002, 18:57: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Drones
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you know if those warheads have to be in the same mine? If all warheads of a mine field accumulate the problem is solved. But if warheads accumulate inside a single mine the small mines can still be swept by armor drones.

Re: Drones
 

Something strange happened to me with drones and the computer AI.

In my new game I'm in early game (no heavy ships or tech yet), but since I sent out several scouts and colony ships I got 4-5 ruin planets, two of which gave me drone tech (level 2 total).

Then I met one of the TDM modpack AI's (the mechanic one with rock/none) and it declared war on me (not surprisingly when I read the description of it)

Anyway it immediately attacked and killed a worthless colony which I had got ruins from and was heading toward my next similar colony (with a single frigate).

I decided to give drones a try and emergency build a nice ship drone to defend the planet.

Next turn instead of attacking the frigate withdrew, like it knew I had a drone in the cargo of the colony. Strange I thought, but maybe a coincident.

Then a couple of turns later it entered the system again, this time with TWO frigates (coincidentily enough to bypass my drone), but I built another drone in time, and AGAIN it retreated out of the system.

My question is, can the AI detect what kind of weapons you have with no long range scanner tech? Even scan my cargo for weaponry?

--
AeoN2
--
Cole's Law
Thinly sliced cabbage