Stellar Balance Mod
 

OK, so in the recent discussions there were a lot of things that SEIV could use but because they are not very urgent MM are not likely implement them in the near patches.
So what do people say about creating a mod that will balance several parts of the game?
The point is, if we do create it it should be commonly used like the TDM-ModPack is because by those "fixes" we (or at least i) want to make the game more balanced.
What things need balancing now: (IMO)
1. Phased Polaron Weapons / Beams (see New Patch? thread)
2. Crystalline weapons - the weakest around

So two big questions:
A. Should i bother to do it at all
B. What else could be balanced

The best thing i can think of is create the balanced tech tree and insert it to the TDM-ModPack. Anyway by now it is the "Overall Game Improvement" mod, so this will not hurt it. Of course i am aware of the general mission of the mod, but still.

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Feel free to copy P&N's PP weapons, which do just that.

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

I can see one potential problem: getting any kind of consensus on how to balance anything. Pick any two modders at random, and you're likely to get two (or more! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) opinions of what the "right" fix is.

The TDM-ModPack deliberately excludes tech changes, so I'd expect that any balancing mod you do come up with won't be accepted to add to it.

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

Bah, as for PPBs pretty everyone agree they're too strong ! Not sure about crystalline weakness though ...
IMHO problem with including these sort of changes in TDM is not that it messes up the standard tech (in fact you can change cost and/or damage without touching the "tree"), but rather that most of the TDM AI races are just programmed to use PPBs !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

Of course all of you are right.
The point is to make an all-accepted mod that will balance the things a very little.

As for PPB, small damage reducement or ROF of 2 will just make it fine.

As for Crystalline weapons, the only actually powerful weapon in their tech tree is the High Energy Amplifier (or whatever is it called). Now it is located on levels 7-10 of a tech tree that begins with 20k cost for the first level.
Their Energy Dampener(sp) is also just weaker than the very similar Mental Flailer from the Psychic tech, and is much weaker by its damage while the cost the size and so on is same, only it is located higher on the tech tree (6-8 i think).

Now i am not sure about the Shard Cannon. Though neat at level 10, it is a pain to research. Still the armor passing ability is nice thing to have.
I wont say anything about it. In fact, i guess this can be left alone.

So overall changes will be minor as it seems to me.
The whole project begins to look useless. Better just try to somehow convince the MM to change the PPB in the game itself.

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

"Their Energy Dampener(sp) is also just weaker than the very similar Mental Flailer from the Psychic tech, and is much weaker by its damage while the cost the size and so on is same, only it is located higher on the tech tree (6-8 i think)."

Actually the two weapons do different things. One increases reload time the other disrupts it. AFAIK shooting the Energy Dampener at a ship armed with APBs or PPBs won't have any effect, where the Flailer will.

Phoenix-D

[ May 27, 2002, 22:26: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

The difference between energy dampener and mental flailer is that one affects energy (dampener, the 'disrupt reload time' power) while the other affects minds (the 'increase reload time' power). So, the Energy Dampener will affect any ship, while the Flailer only affects ships with crews, NOT ships with Master Computers!

I must point out something about the Crystalline Technology trait before you go tinkering with it too much. Besides the 'weak' Shard Cannon you also get Crystalline Armor, which can make a ship or base nearly indestructible in the limited time given for combat. Then there is that pesky Energy Dampener to slow down your ROF. Maybe the reason the Shard Cannon is weak is to give other races a decent chance to survive while pounding on the armor? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Crystalline Tech is a VERY powerful tech for defense.

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

There is a very usefull and educational thread somewhere down this forum called like "Shield, Armor and Danage - FAQ". It may be useful to bump it time after time. It was explained that there is a quirk how SE IV allocates damage. In sort, consider this scenari: Ship with scattering armor is hit first by normal weapon, for example large mounted PPB and get 90 points of damage to its armor. Next, it is hit by shard cannon for 30 damage. Result is bizzare: armor is miracuosly healed but all 90+30 damage is transfered inside the ship ! This bizzare phenomena makes shard cannons much more dangerous than you might think. Just make sure to spread out different weapons in your ship design !

P.S. It is possible that MM changed how it works, I did't pay full attention.

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

Oleg: I'm quite familiar with the odd behavior of the damage allocation system. Even so, the Shard Cannon is not all that powerful in itself. If you manually design ships to exploit the bugs in the damage system then yes, it can be pretty nasty. And if MM ever gets the damage allocation system fixed your cheat will evaporate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I voted in the poll thread, "nothing wrong with it" had a plurality at 30%.

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

It might be good to leave PPBs somewhat too strong. This allows experienced players to choose another weapon tech when matching up against the AI or new players. If it is too unbalancing in multiplayer, then you can make a house rule against using it, or against using it past a certain level.

Of course, balanced weapons and a REALLY good AI would be preferable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

"then you can make a house rule against using it, or against using it past a certain level."

Or just disable it.

Phoenix-D

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

Yeah, but you don't want to disable it if your game has any AIs or newbies.
Two questions (for no one in particular):
1) You can't disable a specific weapon tech without a mod, can you? (You can only disable entire areas, right?)
2) If you disable a tech, what do AIs do that are trying to use that tech?

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

1) For gold: Yes; but not basic Areas.
2) They seem to pick the next best thing programmed, then the third, then just use basic.

Example:

The Amon'krie uses Graviton Hellbores: A product of Gravitational Weapons.

Disable Gravitational Weapons, they use Torpedos.

Disable Torpedoes, they use an APB with 2 DUCs.

Disable Energy Stream Weapons, they just use DUCs.

[ May 28, 2002, 23:49: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

"1) You can't disable a specific weapon tech without a mod, can you? (You can only disable entire areas, right?)"

You can disable an entire area. Since the only result of Phased Weapons (or whatever it's called) is the PPB, you can effectively disable only the PPB.

Phoenix-D

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But, that means that 70% believe the PPB's need to be tinkered with somehow. It's the 'how' part that's so divisive.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Quikngruvn

Re: Stellar Balance Mod
 

upload your turn Quikngruvn, damn you are making dying hard! if you keep this up you will force me to take your future into my hands! LOL