SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

I would like to see some sort of counter against How about a special shield that acts as a phased shield against other weapons, but also stops Null Space weapons (shield levels 7-11). I find that a Null Space armed Base Ship with a Talisman is a hard combination to beat. 5 Massive Mount Null Space Weapons do 1500 KT damage, enough to gut any ship.

How about an 'unclean' seeker weapon that descecrates a Talisman (ship) or Shrine (planet). Make it short range, so they have to get in close to employ it. Make it a seeker because it has to deliver ceremonial unclean material to the holy site.

I already emailed this suggest to MM. Please voice your support.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

I dont think this will help the deal anyhow.
For null-space, this weapon is "special" and should not have counter. The real "counter" is smart use of their low fire rate, medium range and medium damage.

As for a BaseShip you described, i dont see the problem with it. By the same time the enemy builds this thing you will have more than enough attack ships to kill it.
YOur ships have greater speed and LCs or even DSs could kill it with losses of like 4-6

Talisman is a little powerful thing too, but i like the idea. except people abuse it a little bit.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

Against such a base send alot of small ships instead of a few big ships. He can only target so many ships at a time. If you are using simultaneous combat (for example playing on PBW) then the stupid combat AI will most likely only fire on 1 or 2 of your ships even though it could kill more. So if you "spread your power" over a bunch of small ships then the base will waste alot of damage potential. If you have the technology, equip your ships with your own null-space weapons or perhaps tachyon projectors to destroy his weaponry.

Or use weapons that have longer range than his null-space cannon and set your ships to max range.

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Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

IMO the only problem related with talismans is their possible (ab)use with allegiance subverters. The subverters are only limited by range and fire rate, but with the talisman the fire rate becomes almost irrelevant...

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

That's also *3000* racial points..

Phoenix-D

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

there are many ways to counter that problem

Any weapon that has a greater range.

Or how about this

Ship with 1. tractor beam. 2.(some weapons overloaders) 3.Reload rate one weapon 4. Repulser Beam.
Another ship with 1 shield depleater ( IF alien ship has shields... then the rest with a weapon that has a reload of 1
Missle ships supported with carriers ( with fighters)

Or ships that have sat. launchers... when the enemy closes deploy the sats...

The list is endless....

Sure it is a hard to beat combo.... but it can be beaten... There are many weapon combinations that will beat any combination. R.P.S. (rock...)

IF you constantly being beat by one combo... Force the enemy to change what there building.

Build boarding ships and attack that way.

etc...

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

How is the combo religion and psychic abuse ?

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

Or, you could just send a fleet of 50-75 escorts or frigates or destroyers. He can only hit so many of your ships per turn because of multiplex and cost of his ships, while you can board/target at least as many as you have ships. Plus, any ships he gets don't help him out very much, since they're small.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

I don't recall if the Allegiance Subverter works on units. Does it? I don't think it should, although fighters technically contain 'live' pilots... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Swarm the Religious/Psychic player with units. You have fighters and drones for offense and WPs and sats for defense.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

I wouldn't call allegiance subverter + talisman an abuse. Afterall you pay 3000 racial points and a hell of a lot more research points to get them both, which sure as hell isn't easy if you are playing against other humans. I did that a lot against the AI in my max-tech-games and damned right it was fun, but if I were to play humans with a low tech start, I wouldn't dare if I want to survive the early game.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

IIRC the allegiance subverter does work on fighters. I had a battle against my own Ekhazan race where I sent only fighters into battle and they were subverted even though the Ekhazan had no carrier for them. After the battle, they were stranded in space and an easy target for my fleet of BB's.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

Gandalph: Were the fighters captured as a stack then? What if the stack was very large (ie &gt;200 fighters), would they still be converted?

This would affect the way people stack their fighters. It also begs the addition of a fighter-sized master computer.

Do drones get converted too?

CW: I agree. If I spend 3000 points, I want my moneys worth http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . I figure it'll only be a breif Uber-advantage because the (human) player will respond to the talisman-converter combination with swarms of small ships.

[ June 12, 2002, 16:13: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

The tailsman is extremely effective for WP with their long range mounts.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah, it does work. Now when will someone mod a point-defense allegience converter? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Mwahahahaha! I an see a Psychic player sending out empty carriers with lots of PDC ACs against a fighter using opponent... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it doesn't.
The allegiance subverter can only target ships in the unmodded game. And I believe that even if you modify the target possibility the subverters (or the crew conVersion ability) would not work on units.
What I think happened in your game is that one of your carriers with still fighters loaded was converted, then the fighters were launched (they belonged now as the ship to the Ekhazan) and later the carrier was destroyed by your remaining forces.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

Ah, dang, dang, dang! It would be so cool if it worked on units! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

Just made a small test with modded target ability of the allegiance subverter:
If you give it the possibility to target the following units can be converted: fighters, drones, satellites.
Therefore Baron if you like this you may change it.
However in the original setting (and I prefer it that way) as I said the allegiance converter can only target ships (which includes bases too!).

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, like almost everything in SEIV it can be beaten, but it's rather... difficult. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Place a bunch of satellites with comp. viruses, allegiance subverters, plus one "coordinator" sat with the talisman and sensors III, sitting at a warp point... I'd rather build a warp point opener than try to pass through that warp point!

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't know if the fault with computer virus is intentional or not, but if you try to do that all of your virus packages will fire at the first ship that your sats shoot at. If the fleet that comes through the WP is fully master computer equiped you can only take over ONE ship every THREE turns! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Not exactly an effective WP defense!!

[EDIT] spellings.

[ June 12, 2002, 18:54: Message edited by: CW ]

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

I've used that sat tactic to great results. Great for securing a strong defensive position, if ever your attack fleet gets killed off.

CW- Just look at the other Posts about multi tracking with sats. It should help.

Re: SEIV Suggestion: Defense Against Null Space Weapons and Talisman
 

if the persons ships are giving u problems then don't attack them.... attack there planets/suns etc... and let them waste there ships on your static and unit defences.... If you can't beat something don't pick a fight with it.
Make them change tatics. Then they stop building the 'killer ships ' build other ships to fend off your planet assaults... Then attack there ships...

Now Tractor beam , ripper beam, repulser beam with tailsman scares me.... Thats a nasty combo.