Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

As the title suggests, I'd like to start a thread for any rumours, sugestions and confirmed features on the next update.

I'm going to start off with a suggestion that I've mailed MM about before, and I think is critically needed for those long PBW games: Please enable the save game button in simultaneous games! Not that many people have a continuous free hour everyday to spend on a game! Not to mention those frustrating Last-minute computer crashes!

Second suggestion: "Go to" command for drones.

[edit] late-night poor spelling syndrome

[ June 18, 2002, 18:24: Message edited by: CW ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

FIX THE CRYSTALINE WEAPONS AND FACILITIES!!!

I WANT MY RACIAL POINTS AND RESEACH POINTS WORTH!!!

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

It might not be that Crystalline weapons are so badly setup as armor is badly setup. The primary 'power' of both Shard Cannons and Crystalline Torpedoes is bypassing armor. Well, after you have shields level 3 or so what use is armor? If the power of armor was increased then the value of Crystalline weapons would increase.

Anyway, you can mod these changs for yourself, you know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 18, 2002, 20:54: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Shard weapons are greatly underpowered, even when facing armor only ships.

Compare them to PPB. PPB can penetrate normal shields, BUT it is strong enough to be usefull against armor and phased shields. PPB are cheaper to research and cost no racial points.

As for modding... it's fine if you play with yourself. It's hard enough getting PBW players, it would be harder still for an unknown custom mod.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Eww....

I hadn't looked at the default techs for a long time. The Shard Cannon tops out at 35 points!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif That's sick! 10 levels for 35 points while the PPB gets to 60 points in 5 levels!

Mod those files is all I can say. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I've got the Shard Cannon topping out at 50 points and the PPB topping out at 45, though there's another weapon 'after' it in that tech field which goes to 70 points and ignores all shields. (It's a 40kt component, though...)

[ June 18, 2002, 22:09: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Note the range, as well.

Shard Cannon: 1.17 @ range 8
P. Polaron Beam: 2.00 to 1.67 @ range 6

It is also general knowledge that you use the shard cannons against organic targets & their heavy armor. If there are shields involved, you use more efficient weapons.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

under the topic of suggestions for future updates how about making it so that only the hosts txt files (components/ facilities etc) are needed for a multi game. This way you could get around the problems mentioned of getting everyone to get the same mode. Of course probably be a major code change and make .gam files huge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The other think I would like to see (probably also a major code change) is a way to play tactical combat in a multi game(at least in tcp/ip mode).

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Wheel Mouse Support.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Heh... yeah, I suppose the biggest fault in the UI is the lack of wheel- mouse support. Once you get used to it, it's really frustrating trying to use a computer without it.

SJ: The AI isn't smart enough to alter its designs to handle different opponents. And besides, you've paid 1,500 race points to get this tech area. So, the Shard Cannon has to be a decent general weapon, although it also helps to include at least one HEM in every design over Light Cruiser size.

I still think that some improvement is needed in armor. When the next beta arrives I think I'll be able to make some cool armor mounts that will make armor much more useful. And then the hardly used special ability of the Crystalline Techs will start to be worth more.

[ June 19, 2002, 05:28: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Ever since I played a Pyschic Race and had access to the allegiance subverter I have felt as though I was cheating. The Pyschic Race has a great deal of cool things, but when ever the allegiance subverter is researched and applied, it is basically game over if playing against the AI.

I hope that no ones feels that I am stepping on shoes, but think about it. One or two frigates armed with a subverter and enough protection to get in close enough to a Dreadnaught. Well next thing you know you have a Dreadnaught and enough technology gained from analyzing it to put you in Evil empire status real quick. Or a real large fleet built with out even having high tech ship yards.

It should either cost an incrediable amount, or have a significant reduction in successfully scoring a hit.

So yeah, shave a little off the Pyschic advantages and put on the fat to the Crystalline which has some real cool techs, but nothing really worth while becuase of what it has to offer.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Well, the Allegiance Subverter is like all the other 'specialty' damage weapons -- there's no defence or mitigation! This is the problem with 'engines only' damage, 'shield generators only' damage, 'weapons only' damage, etc. It's all or nothing in every case.

And crew conVersion is the same. Either your ship instantly joins the other side or it has no effect. If there was a 'shield' of some sort possible, and/or if it tracked unsuccessful hits and increased the chance of success by some factor based on those previous hit, and/or if it took some time to take effect (disabled the ship for a round or two before it came over to your side), things could be much more interesting.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

"This is the problem with 'engines only' damage, 'shield generators only' damage, 'weapons only' damage, etc. It's all or nothing in every case."

But not boarding parties only or security stations only (haven't tried only plant destrorers- does that even work?)

Changing in the next patch too..

In any case, the Subverter is fine IMO because A. it doesn't work against a MC (virus, I know- but if you kill the MC the ship is like a dog with one leg), it only gets ONE shot per combat, and it's of decent size.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How about going another route with this? The first time this type of weapon is used against you, there is no defense (the way it works now). The next turn, a new tech appears which is avaliable for research to the race without the psychic weapons...maybe a psi-shield or something. It would cost a ton to research, and the improvements would cost even more, but at least the other races would have a CHANCE to resist.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

There is no defense for those weapons in unmodded SE4.

I have defenses for null-space (and thus armor/shield skipping), as well as engine damaging, shield-generator damaging and weapon damaging weapons.

Battlemoons are inherently immune to the allegiance subverter, and cannot ever be captured by a subverter.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

One thing that I wish was in SEIVG, and that I always wanted in Stars! and was looking forward to in Stars SNG, is a log file that is saved with the game.

So I can write myself notes, plans, ideas, etc. and have then contained and accessable and editable within the game.

Or a txt file that would be associated (i.e. named the same) as each saved game.

It would also be a bonus if you could snapshot the current scores, techlevels, etc. with the click of a button.

This one feature has been overlooked by every 4X game I have ever played.

Claymore

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How did you do that SJ?

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

In the construction queues, I'd like for same items to stack up so I can see easier what I'm build i.e. instead of 19 entries of Mineral Miner Facility, just something which says 19x Mineral Miner facility http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I also wouldn't mind if the design list was collapsible/expandable, so we can easily pick out

+ Colony Ships
-&gt; Rock
Gas
Ice
Or
+ Defence Ships
-&gt; Hades
Agamemmnon
Zeus.

Then we don't need to scroll nearly as much (but Wheelmouse support would be so, so appreciated!!) when we want to set a particular ship yard to produce a bunch of similar (but complementary) ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I also wouldn't mind being able to zoom up the galaxy map and measure distances between systems so I can tell where I should park my warp-point maker.

I also want to be able to eliminate particular systems from the list of planets when I'm deciding where to send my next colony ship, so I don't accidentally give them a suicide mission http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It would be nice also to be able to filter it for rock, ice, and gas. Oh, and it would be cool if it showed there was a coloniser headed for a planet even if it has other orders first e.g. to resupply half-way through its voyage.

On the galaxy map again, I'd love to be able to click a button and have it display the number of my transports in each system, hence avoiding the rigmarole of me yelling, 'Where is that transport with my new weapons platforms? It was supposed to be at the front line five turns ago!' or more simply 'Where are all my transports when I need them???' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Same again for combat-capable ships (at least one non-PD weapon).

I sure don't ask for much, huh?

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea good idea. I can use that to keep track of my transports. At the moment everything is done either on paper or on the systems' notes written to the sector map.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just use the Print Screen key, one of the very useful little features in Windows that are not very widely known.

[ June 19, 2002, 19:51: Message edited by: CW ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Defense against Allegiance Subverter is easy. Just give the hull Master Computer ability. Since it's not a compoennt it cannot be destroyed by a virus and the ship can never be vulnerable to the AC.

'Defense' against the Null-space cannon is a misleading statement, I think. Unless he's found something everyone else has missed, all he's got is a way to make your ships more resistant to attack by 'skips shields and armor' weapons. Essentially, it's just internal armor. By making 'slugs' of armor without the armor ability they are counted among the internal components of your ship and will soak up some of the damage from weapons that skip armor with the 'armor' ability actually set on them. The bigger they are in kt the more likely they will be hit instead of some other component. So, a ship with a gigantic 100kt block of armor inside it is probably able to survive null-space hits much better than one with a 10 little 10kt armor plates inside it even if they don't have the 'armor' ability set on them.

[ June 19, 2002, 19:52: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

SAVE GAME DURING SIM. GAME.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

And you know my other one.

Sortable Reports with includes and excludes... Please.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Oh yes, filters on the reports screens (Planets, Ships, Colonies) would be very helpful. Definitely wheel-mouse support. Movable windows within the game would be great as well. I guess that's my main request, to clean up the 'quirks' of the user interface. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Quikngruvn

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

What I would love to see is a way that the universe could be printed out...or being able to print out any information regarding my colonized worlds or worlds that are next on my list to "visit". I use the print screen function but I find it too limited.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Two other things I forgot earlier:

--That point-defense cannons have a chance to incoming missiles (based on PD level, missile level, combat sensor level, and whatever else).
--That all intel projects have a chance to fail, regardless of counterintel, and that this failure chance drops with increased levels of Applied Intel.

Quikngruvn

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

"That point-defense cannons have a chance to incoming missiles (based on PD level, missile level, combat sensor level, and whatever else)."

This is already true except for missile level.. except that the PD cannons get such a ridiclous combat bonus that you never really notice.

Phoenix-D

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

When SEIV was first released, Aaron had said starting tech levels like SEIII were going to be added. Whatever happend to that?

I am still a huge fan of each player having the ability to select tech levels at the start of the game like SEIII. I would love to see that added to SEIVG.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Someone brought this up in the star trek thread (don't know who) that in the next patch you will be able to limit mounts by max tonnage, max techlevel, weapon families etc. The very thought of this makes me drool. Now I can finally make those low tonnage prototype ships that could be a viable alternative to dreadnoughts.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, you can set the game to start with 100,000 resources, then everybody gets to pick a few techs to research... of course, you can't pick, say, Chemistry and Armor, because SE4 won't let you research a tech and its prerequisite on the same turn &lt;grumble grumble&gt;

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i think the idea is you get 1 point for every level of counterintel + 30% counterintel bonus
example: you have stored 14k ci l1 + 34k ci l3 - your enemy must hit you with (14*1+34*3)*1.3=more than 150.8 intel to break your defences

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

I would like to see Point defense fire only in a players defensive phase. I think that would help make Missiles and fighters A factor during the end game as well.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah. Then I'd say the bonus needs to be toned down slightly! (Learn something new every day....)

Quikngruvn

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If we could mod the ECM level of seekers we'd be able to make higher level seekers that would be able to escape more PD fire.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't you already do this with the 'Combat to Hit Defense Plus' ability that is already present???

Simply add that ability to a seeker component and mod the defense bonus to whatever you want.

Has anyone tried this before?

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

My guess, although I have never tried it, is that giving the seeker component this ability would make the ship firing the seeker harder to hit, but have no effect on the seeker itself.

Geoschmo

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's right. The component's abilities will not affect the seekers. It will just boost the ship's defense, which is a bit illogical for a missile launcher.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

My answer has always been to increase the damage resistance of the missile. I went on the assumption that the missile 'soaked up' more of the damage not only because it was stronger, but that maybe it was more agile, so drew/avoided a lot of the fire directed it's way.

Oh, and if you increase the missile speed, it reduces the number of chances the PD have to shoot at it. (I found the unmodded missiles moved so slowly that retreating ships could get two or three PD volleys off by the time the missile closed the distances).

Just my $.02

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Hey Rogue0001

Thats a great idea.

I vote for that one as well

I can use the autocad plotters at work to print up the maps....

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, missiles are much too slow by default. I've boosted even the standard CSM to move at speed 9 by the time it reaches level 5. The Plasma Torp/Missile moves at 12, which no ship can possibly match even with combat thrusters. Only fighters can match that speed.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

This is just my opinion, but I think all the problems with balancing the missles come from making them available at game start, but not allowing point defense until after a lot of research. With SEIII missles come around about the same time as PDC, so you can make them tougher to kill without making them impossible to beat early on.

So either require some research to get to missles, or allow some weak form of point defense early on. Then you can do a better job of balancing them so they Last longer without throwing the early game so terribly out of whack.

Reasonable?

Geoscho

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

I'm always on the look out for little bits and pieces of suggestions on things like game balancing. You guys should check out my mod when it comes out in another half a year! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or have a smaller class of missiles available at first and make the CSM start a few levels up the tech tree. If missiles do less damage per hit then they will not be so unbalancing even without PDC to counter-act them.

I've always thought that armor should be available right away, at least basic armor. How hard is it to make steel armor if you've got steel for ships? Then put emissive armor and other 'fancy' stuff further up the tech tree where it belongs.

[ June 20, 2002, 17:33: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

I think the of giving missles simulated evasion is easily accomlished by shortening the range of PD. Just say that only in the Last two sectors before hitting a target are the missles on a "direct" path. Before that they spiral, zag and loop around making them impossible to hit.

To me there is no realism if a barage of 20 missles are launch and none get through. If PD reaches one square, two at max, then point of defense is really a local thing. No more PD ships covering your entire fleet.

Which brings up another gripe I have been harboring, which pertains largely to missle attacks, but to all attacks as well using beams.

I would like the options to give my ships a spread or covering fire order...where they would divide up their shots or missles between as many targets as their trackers allow. At present, trackers don't really add much to strategic combat, unless your volley destroys a ship. After being able to track 2 ships, three if you are facing an inferior opponent, they become a bit worthless. With this order you could tell a missle ship or WP to launch its missles at multiple targets.

Don't you hate seeing your WPs launching 30 missles at one ship...or seeing the AI do it. Would be a good thing to have in conjunction with high damage weapons: null-space, PPB (if your opponent doesn't have phased shields), psychic sigularity thing, engine damaging.

Think about it...a lvl 5 tracking device and five null-space cannons. With luck you could reduce five ships to one movement in one turn.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that flak was introduced in one mod... was it Ultimate?? Can't remember, but I thought it was a good idea. I'm thinking of making an "in house" mod for some guys I play hotseat with, and I'm going to add flak for WeapPlatforms and blister packs for Ships/Bases. Available in maybe 3 levels, all Point Defense. The first level will be available right at the start.

I'm also going to add a type of shield that requires NO research... and the game will still be balanced! I remember some board game from eons ago in which one of the shield systems was just the expulsion of huge volumes of water. It didn't provide a great amount of protection, but did defract beam weapons to a small degree and decreased chances to hit for incoming fire due to the defracting image of the defender. So I'm making a component that has these properties, but that uses a whole heck of a lot of supplies to do it. It will be outclassed by shields and ECM quite early though.

I'm also thinking of decreasing the accuracy of all weapons by 20% across the board to make ships harder to hit in the early game and fighters in the later game (there is a recent thread regarding this and weapon mounts).

And then the new patch... oh the possibilites.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well after recently trying to add wheel mouse support in my modding program I think implementing this is really really really frustrating!! Can you say CRASH CRASH CRASH!

One think that would really nice, which someone else mentioned in another thread, is the ability so see what was in a system the Last time you had a ship in it.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

There have been some interesting points regarding missiles and PD in this thread. Here's what I've done in the mod I'm working on:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Missile II - Less damage, slower, and less resistant.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Missile III - Stock SEIV
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Missile IV - More damage, faster, more resistant.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Missile V - More damage, faster, more resistant. </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've changed PD so it is available after Missile III, no other prerequesite. I think this balances out better.
Also in the name of balance I added Shields III or IV (I can't remember off the top of my head http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif ) as a prerequesite for PPB. To me it just makes more sense, you shouldn't have the solution (PPB) before you encounter the problem (shields).
Just my little bit of rambling,
Nodachi
Edit: I'd kill for spell-check! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ June 21, 2002, 07:19: Message edited by: Nodachi ]

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

Oh, btw, one thing I thought of, but probably would take a bit of time to do, is.... how about if you could arrange war games with an ally, as an alternative to just sitting your ships above a Fleet/Ship Training facility? The increase you get from war games would really be dependant on how your ships performed, which would be fair enough.

Is that too open to abuse, do you think, or wopuld it actually add something cool when you get to a point where you have no enemies on the horizon but don't want to slit your buddy's throat in case you need him later on?

I have no idea how you would put it in, though, never mind how well it fits.

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just my humble opinion, but it doesn't seem very fitting for a strategic game like this... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Go ahead and wipe your neighbour out! I'm sure his planets will serve you better than your neighbour himself! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know.... I was being pretty silly about the idea of there not being a war on the horizon either. It's just, especially with human players, doesn't it make sense to an ally you can count on when the chips are down i.e. you're getting your butt kicked major-style by some guy who opened a warp point on your system and just poured his entire fleet through.

I also don't like the idea of wasting time researching stuff when an ally has it much higher and we can trade for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I guess it's just me, I'm not that bloodthirsty...

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

umm, about this whole no supply/no weapons firing thing. How does this apply to satellites? Do you need supply storage on sats to get them to fire? If so, how do you resupply them? IIRC, sats can't be added to fleets, so...

Re: Rumours, Suggestions, Features on the Next Update
 

No, sats don't need supplies to fire. Or rather, they are like bases and have unlimited supplies.