Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Please vote for your Favorites or the most powerfull racial tech traits.

Two votes per person.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

I think we think alike Wardad

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Bah! For ultimate power, choose ALL the racial techs, not just two!

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

I think this poll proves the point being made in the game balance thread - Crystalline is woefully underpowered in comparison to the other racial techs, and Temporal (my personal favorite, BTW) is marginal.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

I beg to differ there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ha Ha

Actually the crystaline have that lovely 30% maintence reduction. Which is quite important.

And you cannot underestimate the temporal space yards.

the question did ask for fav. or powerful

Temporal is slowly becoming my fav. Racial Tech.
I like to play long games...so it comes into play.
There are too many factors in determining what is the most Powerful Racial Tech. And lenght of game is a factor

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Organic tech is my least favorite in that... so I am surprised that it is one of the more Favorites.

Crystaline tech is more powerful than it seems.

Reduced costs for ships
Strong Armor
faster firing sub for Wave motion guns

Although I really don't see what 60 points of shields can do for you or why you would fill up a planet with solar generators when a huge breathable planet with rich minerals and Monolith facilities can create MUCH more.

Temporal tech is too bit powerful in my view.

Fast construction with minimal population
Faster sub for the Null space Cannon (!)
Quad damage for shields
30% attack bonus
System Happiness

The Tachyon cannon saves space but lacks that oomph in Temporal.

The other ones are wee bit outclassed.

Religion:
Never Miss
Shrines

Psychic:
System wide training
not much powerful weapons till MSP

Organic
Population Increase
Medical lab (A medical ship is much cheaper and mobile)
Not much powerful weapons till EAG
Souped up Ablative armor

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

I like the Temporal Ship yards too. but....

1. Standard ship yards do not upgrade to a temporal ship yard.

2. A temporal ship yard can not be built by a standard ship yard. So an important planet would have to destroy the old shipyard before starting on the temporal.

I do like the temporal high end weapons also.
I use this trait when playing a full tech game.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Well, I've played only a few of them to be quite honest. My favorite remains organic, because it's very helpful at the beginning of the game due to the way the tech tree is set up (you get weapons pretty well right off the start). But the most important advantage, IMHO, is the fact that you can build ships faster because the resources needed to build are more evenly distributed between mineral, radioactives, and organics

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Some of the factors that make the various racial techs more powerful are not being considered here.

Not only is Organic weaponry more powerful 'pound for pound' than almost any other weapons, it can target MORE things than other weapons. The Acid Globule, for example, is a torpedo, but it can target satellites and fighters. It is a very powerful weapon when you consider this additional fact. Similarly, the Seeking Parasite may do less damage than the standard CSM but it fires 1/3 faster, meaning it does more total damage in a combat engagement. Add organic armor and the population enhancing and protecting facilities to the mix and you've got a very nice package.

Similarly, Crystalline tech is more powerful than many realize because the armor is much harder to destroy than its damage ratio would indicate. Also, there is the 'Energy Dampener' which can slow down the fire rate of enemy weapons if they get close enough to be within its relatively short range. So even though I agree that the shard cannon is under-powered, this is still another of the best racial techs.

Temporal is a bit of a disappointment but not too bad off. The weapons are incredibly powerful, stripping or skipping shields at a ratio that's very difficult to compensate for with either higher tech levels or altering designs. I have requested a special 'defensive' tech for it several times but apparently MM is happy with the current package. If we could have a 'time displacement device' that would give a flat percentage chance for any weapon (even a missile) to miss then Temporal would seem much more balanced.

Psychic technology is primarily dependent on the Mental Flailer and the Allegiance Subverter. These are fairly effective weapons, too. The 'TKP' and the 'MSG' are also good weapons but don't have any special powers. The Psychic Training facilities are really nice, though. This is about the only way the AI can have fully trained ships and fleets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The default abilities for Religious tech are a bit low compared to the others. I've modded them to have slightly higher bonuses, and to have a few additional sorts of bonuses for things like the Time Shrine. This tech is apparently designed for the 'long term planning' approach because almost everything it offers accrues bonuses over time. If you live long enough to get decent returns from all the facilities, and research the Talisman, it is fairly powerful. But you don't get the cool combat toys early in the game like you do with the others.

[ June 27, 2002, 00:17: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Crystalline,

If the weapons used less minerals and more radioactives it would help play balance.

For the amount of research points and racial points the weapons are a bad deal. Sure they might give an temporary edge against organic armor, but a human player can easily counter it.

The armor is OK, but are you going to carry enough armor and shields to make the benifit worth while?

The facilities I have not tried. Is that a 30% maintainance reduction or a -30 reduction (like racial trait setup).
Since shields are easily countered, boosting shields is not that helpful.

Now that I'm doing PBW I may have to fight in my backyard. Against the AI the Fight facilities are useless to me.

I'm a replacement player for a PBW game. The race is crystalline. It is a high research cost game. I'm doing well but I'm muttering a lot of 4 letter words.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The shield boost is best for units.

If the facility provides +30 shields, on a stack of 100 fighters (or sats), that equates to 3000 more hitpoints!

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Actually I like to pick the advanced storage and that better engine one.

The advanced storage not only allows you to build more facilities on a planet, it also gives you a headstart by having more facilities 'out of the box'. (more research and resources)

The one that gives you +1 ship speed means it take you slightly less time to explore and move population. (also gives you a boost to your abilities in tactical combat)

With these 2 abilities, I should be able to get a headstart on building my empire. (Vs those with the special tech pick) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Well, I'm glad my statement started a serious debate here...

Anyway, the Temporal Version of the Null-Space Weapon requires nearly the same amount of research (since you have to research 2 levels of Temporal Studies, plus the Temporal Weapons, to get the Temporal Version; Null-Space requires 2 levels of Astrophysics, plus Null-Space Weapons). And for that, the Temporal Version has lower damage and less range than the Null-Space Cannon.

I agree about the happiness facility (double the effect of the standard one); and the Temporal Space Yard is a good late-game boost. But you have to research 1 level of Temporal Studies and then 4 levels of Temporal Technology to get the first TSY. And, as Wardad mentioned, you have to scrap your original space yard to build the Temporal one on an established planet. I don't usually bother with the combat bonus facility, since battles rarely occur in my home territory (I don't have time to keep up with PBEM/PBW games, unfortunately).

I remember in the early days everyone liked Organic for the "best" fighter weapon (Small Lightning Ray), the "best" seeker (Parasite, as Wardad mentions) and the Organic Armor. I wouldn't discount the replicant facilities either; the only AI that can keep up with a micromanaging human for population growth is an Organic AI that builds the replicant facilities.

And there's been recent debate about how effective the Allegiance Subverter is, especially on satellites at warp points. I had one game where I managed to capture a Cue Cappa ship by Intel, and used that ship to subvert another ship, used those 2 to subvert a couple more, and so on, and so on... too bad a new patch came out and I decided to start a new game before I could get my captured fleet back home.

Finally, while it takes forever to get the Talisman, it's hard to argue with the effectiveness of something that grants 100% to-hit chances for beam weapons at all ranges, no matter how much ECM or defensive bonus or experience an enemy has.

EDIT: I just looked at the poll results, and it looks like Religious is in the lead; Psychic, Temporal and Organic are tied for second, and Crystalline is a distant Last.

[ June 27, 2002, 20:28: Message edited by: DirectorTsaarx ]

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have you tested this? Does it even apply to units? It used to be that shields did not even work right on stacks. Would the +30 be for the entire stack or the individual unit?

I'm playing one to many PBW and STARS host games. I'm out of time to test anything out.

Who else is playing crystalline? What tips do you have?
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Rock, Paper, Sledge Hammer

[ June 27, 2002, 23:03: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't recall a single patch (except Classic v1.49 -&gt; Gold v1.50, which is not really a patch) that ever broke savegames. You can easily continue to play any mod under a new SE4 Version.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just did. With an Energy lens 3 (+60), two fighters get +120 hitpoints.

The extra shielding dosen't show up in any of the windows, the only hint of its existence is the fact that the fighters take twice as long to die. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Note that you have to have SOME shielding on your vehicle already, otherwise you don't get the bonus.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't recall a single patch (except Classic v1.49 -&gt; Gold v1.50, which is not really a patch) that ever broke savegames. You can easily continue to play any mod under a new SE4 Version.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it was the patch that changed the size of the repair bays and some other minor weirdness, and while I was certain I could fix my own illegal ship designs, I decided the AI might be overly penalized by continuing.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

In that case, the AI would have blocked production until it gains a tech (any tech). Then it redesigns all its ships and is back in business.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

ONLY 45 VOTERS? WHERE ARE THE REST OF THE PLAYERS???

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Actually, if I'm going for most competitive race design, I often don't take any racial traits, at least in a 2000-point start. I have taken organic, and would likely take religious in a long-term competitive game.

In games that aren't just about winning, I take whatever fits my empire design, and try to take traits and combinations I haven't tried before.

I think they can all be used to evil effect, but those two are probably the easiest to get the most out of, depending on game length.

PvK

[ June 29, 2002, 02:17: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can't beat psychic for the biggest in-your-face effect. I use it most of the time. If you combine AS cruisers/BCs "riding shotgun" with more conventionally armed gunnery dreadnoughts AND a loaded troop ship, plus good strategies and good logistic management, you are one feared, hated and cursed enemy!

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Great, 50 voters.

So, how do I email the poll to MM?

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Temporal and Psychic have another benefit not mentioned yet in this thread - scaners that come along. True, you can get equal "normal scaners",
but they need extra research efforts. It is escpecially important if your opponent likes stealth armor. It is awfully easy to research and unless you have temporal/psy tech., there is a window of vulnerability.

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

I am a bit surprised at the low regard for Crystalline. I guess people are oriented towards fire power and other spectacular 'visible' results. Crystalline tech is quite powerful but it gives you high survivability with tough armor and the ability to slow the fire-rate of attackers. Apparently taking a beating and surviving is not so 'cool' looking as bLasting away with all those high-damage weapons in Organic Tech or converting your enemies outright with the Allegiance Subverter in Psychic Tech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Racial Tech Trait Poll
 

Oleg,

That's a good point about the scanners. A Crytal Resonance scanner would be a great addition.

Baron,

Thanks for the playing tip. What is the range and fire rate on those reload inhibiters?

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Rock, Paper, Sledge Hammer