What good are drones? [EOM]
 

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

No Maintenance

Able to be put in bays/hangars

Fits in Cargo

Does not use supplies of the Launching Ship

Added bonuses than Ships/fighters with warheads such as Increased movements

Increased Survival than Seekers

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

I confess I have had the same question. The just seem so expensive to build and research to me that I've never used them. Do people use them much?

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

Unfortunately, they are too weak for general use.

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

it depends on what use you want them for, I have used them, especially in wormhole defense, put 60-80 drones on wormhole with other defenses and then can make a difference. yes they are expensive, but again, depends on how you use them and how you have them implemented in your various offensive/defensive strategies.... example, I had a number of battles (TDM) at wormholes, launched 50-80 drones, (tactical), along with my defending fleet & bases, they definitly put the hurt on enemy fleet of 81 ships, didn't destroy them, but did take some out and damaged others... did make a difference, also use drones launched from planets to take out single enemy shps coming thru my systems and against colony ships...

just some ideas mac

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

I really should stop with these plugs (especially considering it isn't even publically available), but...

...In my mod, I made Ion, Tachyon, Null-Space, EMP, Plague, Neutron, Radiation, etc., Versions of drone warheads for my mod -- they're researched as part of their respective weapons categories (i.e. you get Anti-Planet Neutron Warheads if you have Drones and Planetary Weapons). Doubled all of their damage, too.

Drones are definitely useful once you make them useful. =)

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

Yes, I agree. Drones are a little weak, but can be made more useful in mods. And since it is shameless plug time: check out DevnullMod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . We added drone engines that only cost about half as much as regular engines. Since engines make the bulk of the drone cost, that helps making them more useful. Advanced engines use less fuel. Oh, and I just added solar sails for drones as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Rollo

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

Most people seem to think that drones aren't very useful. I disagree. Drones are very powerful but they need different strategies then ships.

They are a bit expensive to build but no maintenance makes them much cheaper in long run. Drones are very cheap to research. They have big defence bonus. A drove with EMC III has +110 defence bonus. A large drone with all engines has room for EMC and 5 anti-ship warheads. One of those drones can do 3000 damage.

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Drones can be researched immediately even with low tech start. If you compare them to ships they are much cheaper. To get a good drone you need to research drones, EMC and engines. To get a good ship you need to research ships, engines, weapons, sensors, EMC and armor/shields.

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I heard that special damage types for drone warheads don't work, at least not in the current Version of SE4. Sorry!

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah! I was wondering why they did so little damage to that enemy planet*, when I tested them out with the Starting Tech Level set to High. I simply assumed that the planet had shot most of them down with weapons platforms; I guess I should've taken into account the fact that some features haven't been enabled yet.

...Now I'm wondering why they did any damage at all, though. I bombarded that planet with Plague, Neutron, and Radiation warheads. (Or is the damage simply assumed to be "Normal" type damage?)


(* You'd declare someone your enemy too if they used cheat codes to support several hundred drones on planets near your homeworlds. =) )

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have you tested these yet? In my past experience specialized-damage warhead components do not work. I'll be testing again soon as I have a new game with new data file mods in progress.

And you don't need to set the warheads' damage all that high if you set the ramming damage realistically high. Think about it. What do we hear from the astronomers, every time an asteroid near-miss is noticed, about the power of a little bit of rock hitting the earth at 20 miles per second or more? So, spacships travelling at high speeds will also do massive damage to each other. There are two lines in SETTINGS.TXT:
Ram Ship Source Modifier Percent := 300
Ram Ship Target Modifier Percent := 300

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah! I was wondering why they did so little damage to that enemy planet*, when I tested them out with the Starting Tech Level set to High. I simply assumed that the planet had shot most of them down with weapons platforms; I guess I should've taken into account the fact that some features haven't been enabled yet.

...Now I'm wondering why they did any damage at all, though. I bombarded that planet with Plague, Neutron, and Radiation warheads. (Or is the damage simply assumed to be "Normal" type damage?)

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the flip-side of my previous post. Drones ram, and ramming does more damage than you expect. Have you ever totalled the kt of the components in even a drone? That's the basic value used for damage inflicted when they ram.

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

I have an opponent in a competitive game who is using drones almost exclusively. It's been an interesting game. The strategy can actually work pretty well, but requires learning some things rather than trying to use them naively. They are especially good as something to stockpile during peacetime, since they have no maintenance cost and they are much more powerful when usen en masse.

In games and techniques where resources are important, the zero maintenance advantage can be very important.

PvK

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

PvK: In your Proportions Mod are Drones altered in any way? I ask as that's what I'm playing at the moment... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In any case, how do you group Drones together for strike purposes? The high shields available to homeworlds would seem to make anything short of a massed strike rather futile!

Steve.

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

I don't know if you can group drones into a fleet (havn't tried), I just launch a whole bunch from a planet and then hold down the shift key and click on them with the mouse, then at a target.

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

No, you cannot fleet them. This is part of the problem with drones. A large number of them together get in each other's way and actually impede the attack. This gives the target(s) more time to shoot them down and reduces their effectiveness.

We should at least be able to fleet drones 'by themselves' and give them some sort of order.

[ July 07, 2002, 20:32: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just noticed this question. Yes drones are a bit different in Proportions, though not a whole lot. Drone armor is different - they can't use Proportions' high-capacity not-hit-first armor types, because drones don't take component-level damage (like all units, they don't degrade in performance until they are completely destroyed).

The combat modifiers in Proportions are all changed from the standard set (q.v.).

Drones in Proportions use quasi-Newtonian movement, and do not get an "advanced materials" speed bonus.

Supply components are less expensive in Proportions.

If your Proportions game is earlier than Version 2.2, then medium and large drones have a lower maximum speed than small drones. In 2.2 the engine limit on larger drones was increased to allow them to keep up.

As for massing them for attack, I think you just need to launch them all at the same time/place with the same speed. Trying to conquer or just cripple or destroy a homeworld in Proportions is (intentionally, since success is a major event) a difficult task requiring massed forces. Drones can be useful for this because of their massive warheads and zero maintenance cost. If you can establish a base on a breathable world that is in drone range of a target homeworld, the huge planetary capacity can be used to amass a very large drone force. You may want to send in large numbers of fighters with similar combat speed at the same time to draw planetary PD, and some ships as well, and then you will have a potent combination.

PvK

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

Gentlemen,

I am using drones in my DevNull Mod game vs the CPU. My current tactic is to use them to glass the computer's unprotected rear planets, rather than launch a ship to do it. The zero maintenance is a big bonus.

I especially enjoy launching them from a system where I sent a cloaked troop ship to capture the planet. I had some drones in the cargo bays to begin with, and have been building them ever since. Occasionally, I deliver a new load via transport.

This keeps the damnable CPU players off balance while I grind through their systems one at a time.

Cheers!
Trajan

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

&lt;start&gt; A long time ago, actually an original scenario with GOld was the drone wars option. I am thinking of expanding this. &lt;/end&gt;

comments?

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

i doubt this will be incorporated into the game anytime before SE-V, but maybe some of the beta-brigade can suggest it:

it would be nice if drones served the same function they do TODAY. a way to do things remotely (move-to order, please) and with out the risk of life. well, of friendly life. if the loss of drones in combat did not affect happyness, or had a reduced effect on happyness, that would be GREAT. preferably moddable from the happyness types file, if killing things with drones made people happy but loosing drones had no adverse effect on your populations mood, there would be a compelling reason to use them.

this could also be extended to master computers. and satelites. it would be neat if it could be extended to replicants produced by organic facilities, but that could be ambigious and unbalancing.

Ideally (would require a complete game overhaul to support) some sort of cultural value system (similar to those in the MOO3 design doc, which probably wont exist in the final Version) where different cultures would view the use of robotic ships differently, or using organic replicants in combat had different morale effects for different cultures.

and while im dreaming, i want a pony. no scratch that, while im dreaming, i want one of these:

http://members.tripod.com/~Slippery_.../Steyr_AMR.htm

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The other way to do this is build a base or two in the "empty" systems scattered through the enemy's territory (asteroid-only systems, nebulas, "proto-star", etc.). With space station sizes, it'd take 2 bases - one with space yard, one with drone launchers. Base station size & above could combine a space yard & launchers. Of course, you also have to provide a "spotter" ship to warp into the occupied system, and then lauch drones, but you could use a very small ship for that...

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

I guess what I'm not understanding (actually started another thread about this) is HOW you are grouping the drones for ATTACK. If you shift-right click, and target an enemy fleet, all of the drones arrive at the same time, but attack the fleet individually in seperate tactical combats. I would imagine that the same thing happens when attacking a planet. So, is the only way to launch multiple drones in one tactical combat to enter combat with a ship loaded with drones, and launch them every turn?

BTW, I am not asking about the denuvalmod...I'm using TDM and Standard.

[ July 15, 2002, 19:45: Message edited by: sachmo ]

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Request? We positively demanded it. We told MM that recon and patrol were inherent in the concept 'drone' and he'd be bashed forever if he didn't include the ability to send drones to an arbitrary location or on patrol. He still didn't include the abilities we wanted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif What else can we do? Like so many other things, it would apparently require some huge ground-swell of protest from the Users to get it included.

[ July 15, 2002, 20:11: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And as I mentioned in that thread, multi-select is shift-left click on my computer.

Do you have your mouse configured to be used left-handed?

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

the drones really are totally a waste unless you can have move/warp orders. They should be like unmanned explorers as well as rammers.

and in starfire, how are we to make SBMHAWKS and RD2s without the ability to move through the warp point unless a target has been selected, any ideas?

Re: What good are drones? [EOM]
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And as I mentioned in that thread, multi-select is shift-left click on my computer.

Do you have your mouse configured to be used left-handed?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I stand...sorry, I sit corrected. Shift-Left Click it is.