Starting a new MOD ...
 

... and considering some radical changes (like that's anything new to folks who've already made MODs for SE4, heh).

Anyway, this is still in the formative stages, but I've been reconsidering the way Racial technologies work. Frankly, I think an Organic-based technology wouldn't create the same engine types as, say, a crystalline-based technology. Some racial technologies should be considered "prime" types -- selecting one will change just about *everything*. Hulls, engines, you name it.

Now, based on my still-highly-incomplete understanding of the way the tech tree works; it seems that I should be able to set up the tech tree to include *all* components, from all races, based on the basic tech fields (bear with me here), so that (say) crystalline technology, organic technology, and "standard" technology all have comparable components/facilities become available at similar breakpoints ... the non-standard components would simply have thematic "twists" to their capacities (organic components would -all- regenerate, for example). The tech levels wouldn't have to be identical; the components/facilities would not be direct parallels. But they could be roughly close to each other, and basically balanced between benefit and research cost.

Now, to keep each one seperate, I figure on setting the prerequisites to include an extra, non-researchable field (with all of one level, which the player would start with from turn 1). If one selects Organic technology during empire creation, you gain the Organic Tech "starter field", and lose the Standard Tech starter field.

Thus, if an organic and a standard race both reach X, Y, and Z levels in three different fields -- the Standard-tech empire will have pretty standard SE4-fare components and facilities.

But ... the organic-tech empire will not have access tot hose. Instead, the organic-tech empire would have access to special, organic-technology equivalent components and so forth.

Now, the problem is .... Deconstruct and Analyse. Is there a way to set a given tech field such that you can never learn THAT single field from a D&A, or would the mod have to require an honro system of "Noone performs a D&A, ever" ... or some other solution?

...

I'd also appreciate any pointers folks can give me to some good (and FREE) ways to make image files, since such a scheme will require a wider-array of components that currently have pictures (there'd have to be more than just one picture for crystal-based armor -- even if it's all just a color-shift sort of affair ...).

And anyother pointers on making MODs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This'll be my first-ever try at MODding anything ...

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

racial techs cant be analyzed, nor can anything that has them as a pre-requisite.

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OH. Duh, I should've realised that ... well thanks for poking my deficient grey matter anyway! 8)

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

In my unreleased Foundations mod, I added a racial trait called something like "Industrial Construction" which was required for many of the standard components and facilities. This way, monsters, organics, or other very atypical types would not automatically have access to the standard tech items. It's a lot of work, though, unless you automate the process of adding such requirements to the existing components.

PvK

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I declare the preceeding statement Not Completely True.

You cannot analyse a racial tech That You Did Not Buy With Racial Points.

If you do have Organic, then you can gain tech levels by analysing a ship equipped with Organic tech.

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

"Anyway, this is still in the formative stages, but I've been reconsidering the way Racial technologies work. Frankly, I think an Organic-based technology wouldn't create the same engine types as, say, a crystalline-based technology. Some racial technologies should be considered "prime" types -- selecting one will change just about *everything*. Hulls, engines, you name it."

If you want some ideas you are welcome to take a look at my 'D-Mod'. The gold Version is available in the downloads section. I had organic engines that regenerated and crystalline engines that acted as solar collectors. Tonnes of different hull sizes (including the much loved Hermes Attack Destroyer). I never did get around to making crystalline/organic hulls but they are easy to modd. (just time consuming).

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I have your mod (for v1.49) installed in my second SE4 directory (the one I'm using for trying out new mods; the other stays "pristine" -just- in case 8), and I -like- some of the ideas I saw in there the time I ran through it (the use of "weapon mount" enhancements to allow for miniaturised or hardened components, and so on).

I especially loved miniaturised organic armor, hehehe. Starbases with 60x (min)Organic Armor ... 1800hp per round regenerated; who needs shields with that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif But I'm not sure the use of Gatling mounts, the damage level is positively puny ... plus with 200-ish of them a single ship takes forever to finish firing at it's target, lol.

I won't actually start coding the mod for a while yet; got to get room in the budget for buying SE4 Gold first (using a borrowed copy of 1.49 atm), so I can make sure it's compatible, etc, etc.

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

who needs shields with that?

Can you say "Shard Cannon"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

But I'm not sure the use of Gatling mounts, the damage level is positively puny ... plus with 200-ish of them a single ship takes forever to finish firing at it's target, lol.

Compare damage per kiloton per firing rate ratios. The gatling mounts give more damage overall than normal weapons (pulsed is the best gatling mount, I think). They might even be better than Large Mount weapons; I forget exactly. And play strategic combat. You don't have to watch 200 beams fire from every ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 10, 2002, 07:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

"And play strategic combat. You don't have to watch 200 beams fire from every ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif "
But then, those of us who are obsessive-compulsive would have to watch the replays. And you know how hard it is to watch the AI run your ships... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

Well, if you play PBW then you dont' have a choice, and what's up with some replays not being available?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where might this so called "downloads section" be found?

I'm interested to say the least.

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

I wonder; how many people besides myself owuld like to see more variety in mine-design than just "biggest type, best warheads, pack 'em in" ... ?

I'm talking about the option to build mines with warheads set to specific types of damage (i.e. engine-only for the ship-capture fanatic; burn the engines out, they can't run, capture them at your leisure).

Has such been done before? If so, did it work? And where was it tried ... ?

I'm also planning on including a "small XXXXX" for most special armor types (where applicable; picture a Small Organic armor with 6 or 9 hp that regenerates 3hp per turn; would that be workable for Troop and Fighter units?).

*sigh* I'll tell you though, if I'd realised BEFOREHAND, howmuch I was letting myself in for ... *gak* I might've decided against trying to make a mod! heh!

My biggest problem will be finding enough suitable/appropriate artwork for the hug eincrease in number of components available. I have the general pack of stuff for everyone to use, and it's a -start- ... but only a start, and just barely that! Any suggestions ... ?

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

Special mine warheads can work. They'll work better with the next Gold patch IIRC.

"I'm also planning on including a "small XXXXX" for most special armor types (where applicable; picture a Small Organic armor with 6 or 9 hp that regenerates 3hp per turn; would that be workable for Troop and Fighter units?)."

Won't work. Units don't take partial damage; they're either dead or not. And if they're dead, organic armor isn't going to help http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

check the mine thread IIRC i posted in it recently heha (I'm a horse) wtf wow im tired and drunk.

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">More impetus to get SE4 gold for myself ... heh.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm. How EXACTLY does partial damage not work on small units ... do you have to do sufficient damage in a single hit to destroy the entire unit, or is it only that specific -components- aren't destroyed one at a time?

I could then maybe at least give the Organic tech tree self-repairing/regenerating (in combat, even!) features for sattelites and fighters, and just let the small organic armor bebased on some other sort of organic armor (I plan on more than just the basic type in SE4), if the total HP is still tracked per unit. As a rough guess, maybe 1/10 the "hull" size in hp per round ... d'you think that would work?

Small Stealth and Small Scattering armors should work at least, that's just adds to the ECM defense total.

... right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'll have to delve into how mines are swept, how I can maybe change that process, and see if armored (even shielded?) -mines- might not be possible, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Less bang per mine, but harder to sweep ... if I had that choice, I'd REALLY have to weigh both sides carefully ...

Anyway, thanks for pointing out the problem inherent in regeneratign -small- armor types. 8) Especially helpful, since at this stage I'm working solely pencil-and-notebook on the ideas stage ... so it's easy enough to cross out an idea and put a "why not" note next to it. Much easier than hunting down an errant line or three of code, later. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

Armored mines aren't possible.

"Hmm. How EXACTLY does partial damage not work on small units ... do you have to do sufficient damage in a single hit to destroy the entire unit, or is it only that specific -components- aren't destroyed one at a time?"

They track damage; when it gets to a certain point they poof. Example: a fighter with a cockpit (1kt) life support (2kt) and one shield generator (4kt, 40 shields) will take 46 points of damage and then die; doesn't have to be one shot. It will be fully funcitonal until it dies.

Ship damage works a bit differently. Shields stop a flat amount of damage, as you can see in the shield gauge. Internal components take their kt amount in damage, then are destroyed. However, *only one component is hurt at a time*. If a colony component that has 200 kt in damage resistance is hit with 10 points of damage, it will continue to be hit until it's destroyed. No other components will be damaged until it dies. (not sure what affect "only X" weapons have on this)

EDIT: a few more ship damage tidbits.
-Partial damage is LOST after combat. If that 200kt component takes 199 kt of damage, then combat ends, all the damage disappears. No effect, it just vanishes. So that component will need 200kt of damage to destroy next time.

Phoenix-D

[ July 12, 2002, 07:01: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shame, that.

Well, at least I know I can build in the regeneration into the HULL for organic units, and maybe come up with an "self-autorepair" component for one or more other technology types, to slowly-but-steadily restore HP lost during combat by fighters and other unit-class objects. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif "Fighter shield regenerator" and the like seems possible, too.

Thanks again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Starting a new MOD ...
 

"If a colony component that has 200 kt in damage resistance is hit with 10 points of damage, it will continue to be hit until it's destroyed. No other components will be damaged until it dies. (not sure what affect "only X" weapons have on this)"

IIRC, "only X" weapons "pull out" the partial damage and add it to the current weapon's damage. I.e., if you hit a colony comp with 30 points of normal damage and then hit with 10 points of shield-generator-only damage, you'll destroy one shield generator (40kt).

It gets more exciting. If you hit an OAIII (150kt) with a WMG III (140 damage), followed by a Shard Cannon X (35 damage, and range 8 btw), you suddenly have 175 points of armor-skipping damage (voila!). What could be better?

There's a lengthy thread (Armor, Shields, and Damage FAQ) on this subject, as well as a much smaller addendum(Armor, Shields, and Damage FAQ--Correction)--this is a very brief summary of it.

(edits--get URLs, fix URLs, fix UBBcode, fix fixes...)

[ July 12, 2002, 21:20: Message edited by: Krsqk ]