Newbie frustration.
 

I have come to realize that part of SEIV's 'charm' stems from having to scrounge up basic game information. I suppose that situation improves one's intelligence gathering skills. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Be that as it may - here's my quandary:

I am totally unable to discover any complete (or partial) description of the zillions of techs available in the game and what they do!

I looked at tree.txt - which is a listing (albeit missing a few things) of the Tech Tree. But that doesn't reveal anything about what the particular tech does.

Is there someplace (under some rock perhaps) where this acolyte might apprise himself of these 'Mysteries'? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Well, you can go to the source, and just read the data files. Components.txt, techarea.txt, abilities.txt, and so on. A lot of it is rather cryptic, but once you get familier with the format and sytax, all the information you seek is contained therein.

Geo

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

I hardly call the lack of documentation a 'charm' of the game. Yes, the lack of explanation for many of the features is a problem. That's why this board thrives so well. People experiment for themselves and then share the information here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif So, other than reading the data files directly as Geo suggests, you have to post your questions.

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Or, start a game on high tech level - then you start with all the techs to play with! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Ellowan,
From a practical point of view:
How much would you pay for Better Documentation?
What should it include?
What should it leave out?
How many items are in the game?
How much space should be used to describe them?

Consider the size of this forum. Subtract 70 percent, (pulling a number out of thin air) to remove redundancy of information. Subtract the “Phongs Head Cantinna” (I thought that was the reason this board thrived). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
How big a manual would the remaining content of this forum create?

My point is:
I personally would rather not pay someone to provide better documentation when there is this forum and the many tools provided by the members of this community.
Anybody else feel this way, (or am I wacked as usual). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You seem to be saying that a few extra pages oulining the techs in table form; ditto the research tree (ala Master of Orion II) would be terribly expensive? Not! I've published manuals and know what they cost.

I'm sure that it would have been a ball-buster to at least put it in the Online manual. Again - not!

Frankly - some of the drivel in the modding section could have been editted out and left for this forum. That would have provided plenty of room for what I miss.

Hence - I needs must go to the time and effort of compiling such a document myself. Sigh! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ July 11, 2002, 23:26: Message edited by: Elowan ]

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

You know he is right. We really should post a detailed description and capability -pros-cons of each of the Tech and Facility items.

Since I suck at such things, I would hope that those who know will take the time to create a post or tutorial about Component and Facilities.

In the mean time, go to the MUST SEE SEIV SITES thread, it is a sticky second from the top of the Thread list. At the bottom of the post (By me) is a link to the Dubious Guide. Download it. Read it, and learn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 11, 2002, 23:51: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

What? Read a tutorial? Fah! Write, maybe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif j/k

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1) I'm compiling at document on Techs/Facilities, etc. at the moment out of desperation.

2) viz: Dubious - been there, done that.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Elowan ,
I don't know what they cost, that is why I asked.
For the most part you answered my question. Any My understanding is that MM is a one person -company. How many were involved in the development of MOO II or CIV II? I loved the Tech Tree poster provided in CIV II. I had it mounted over my wall till I found SE.

I do have to admit I like the "charm" of discovering things on my own. It is part of the pleasure. then agin, I also enjoy hiking 6 hours up hill to see what is on the otherside. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Full disclosure: I do use the Tech Tree Viewer to aid in recalling what leads to what. I do ask for help. VIA IRC chat Fyron's advice saved my homeworld. I was in the middle of a game and in chat when the Rage showed up. Hm, The advantage of WP over Sats? Those WP's toated a DD and asorbed the 3 CSMs that hit Home.
I do read the forum every day for ideas and informaion. SJ's solution to players that colonize your systems was priceless.

Without these forums I would be very frustrated by the lack of a better manual. Indeed, I would have been up a creek without a manual and Tech Tree in CIV II.

Conclusion:
Yes, I would have been very pleased if the Online Manual had included the informaiton you want. It would have reduced the learning curve dramaticaly.
My question stands: How much would it have cost for Arron Hall to have included what you are asking for?

BTW: I think it is great if you would do up such a manual or if a team here would do so. I do agree it would allow more time focused on the playing the game and less time on How to Play the game.

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Over all I guess it comes down to different desires. I am very different. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 12, 2002, 22:05: Message edited by: The High Gryphin ]

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

It's time - that old bug-a-boo - that's at work. If MM is a 'one-man-band' (like my webpage business) - then it's understandable. On the other hand - if you work for yourself - time spent depends on who's banging on the door -- rent police, etc.

I like doing manuals - because it helps me learn as I teach (by writing the manual).

BTW - and just as an aside - I'm a retired eye surgeon and I used to teach all over the world. [I'm not bragging here - just stating facts] Now I do websites and other fun stuff just for giggles. Of course - I play games too! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Elowan,
"I'm a retired eye surgeon "
Then you may understand my post about my vision.
I have Retinitis Pigmentosa.
It is stable at the moment. we shall see.

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Speaking as someone who is awaiting to recieve this game, and watching the tracking as it slowly comes nearer (gotta love UPS package tracking, it's almost a game in itself)...
Judging by all of the recent Posts and following this thread, I would love to see someone post a tech tree if it's not in the manual.

Also, if anyone has any good websites for this game that are not listed in the links page of MM (some of those links are dead) I'm sure I'll be looking at them in the near future if you'd please list them here.

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The thing is, no two people agree on which parts of the manual are "drivel" that should have been left out. I don't see anything in the modding chapter that I'd have cut if I'd been editing it. (Except for a spelling error that got past the computer spellchecker.)

Shrapnel went to the trouble of hiring a tech writer to do the Gold manual, which is nearly two and a half times the size of the original, and IMO significantly improved, yet people (including me, I admit) still complain about it.

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

I actually read the Gold manual. A tech tree would be nice. It satisfies the needs of those of us who are first-borns. We like organization. We like certainty. I also had the tech tree for Civ II posted to my wall in the study during medical school. Eventually I could recite it as well as the Citric Acid Cycle. It is a mantra, a way of life, structure to the universe. It can be held, modified, planned. Your destiny is secured.

Yet, I can understand the beauty of lack of a published tech tree. It allows disorganization, uncertainty, and waste of resources. As I said, a pathetic nightmare to a first-born. Some thrive in the mire of the unknown. Not me, I have to be in control. I keep my excel spreadsheet handy, tech tree plotted to the Last research point. When I go to bed tonight, all will be well with my soul.

Re: Newbie frustration.
 

Greetings, Well the best and most useful tech tree I've found Online was at the Kuat Drive Yards.
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/
On the center frame click "mods & files" and the first selection on the screen that comes up is a well organized tech tree where you can actually see what leads to what with relative ease. It prints out at 15 pages long but it even covers all the racial tech. My compliments to the Drive Yards for supplying such a useful tool to the community and I'm sure it will help answer those tech questions.
Duke Fred