Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Hello Everyone. The Official Tech-Grid-Mod thread.

Mac and myself have begun the work on this mod.

It is as it sounds. A tech grid mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Here is an example of how a item will look like in the upcoming pbw mod.

Name := Cruiser
Short Name := Cruiser
Description :=
Code := CR
Primary Bitmap Name := Cruiser
Alternate Bitmap Name := Cruiser
Vehicle Type := Ship
Tonnage := 500
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Engines Per Move := 1
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 1 := 5
Tech Area Req 2 := Industry
Tech Level Req 2 := 6
Tech Area Req 3 := Construction
Tech Level Req 3 := 6
Tech Area Req 4 := Space Yards
Tech Level Req 4 := 2
Number of Abilities := 0

More to come. And Updates will be posted here.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

I am assuming by Tech-Grid-Mod, you mean that items will require various levels in a variety of tech areas rather than one or two as is normal with SE:IV? At least it looks that way from your example.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

I would assume that since that's what he's been talking about making for weeks in the IRC channel, that is what he means. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm, not to be picky, but:
Number of Tech Req := 1

should be:
Number of Tech Req := 4

I think, anyway....

I had been toying with this idea myself for a while now. I would be willing to help out a little, if you like. I don't have much time to give, and no experience. But every little bit helps, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ July 14, 2002, 11:30: Message edited by: dumbluck ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

It should be that, yes. But Tesco has some hidden plan that we don't know of yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Wow, IF! between the time I hit post reply, edit, type a couple more lines, and post reply again, you've already replied to my initial post!!!

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

that was a typo. But just an example of what it will be like. I have not really got around to deigning the ships yet.

I have started with Industry 1 which gives you your basic mining, research and space yard. And I am currently expanding from that direction and doing a family at a time.

Mac will be helping.

Dumb luck that would be good if you want to help out.
I don't know what yet because the concept is just in the initial stages.

I think the hard part will be the weapons. Since there will be many different Version of each weapon, based on the different weapon and theory tree's that are researched. ( Yep Range, Power, size and speed ).

That is where I will need the help.

The overall concept of this mod is to place more emphasis on the theory of the research areas and an expected outcome. And to make the game's tech tree get to a point where it will become almost impossible to research everything.

THe other concept of this mod is to create a game where research stragety is linear for a short period of time. Then as the braches open up, short medium and long term goals must be measured against current events and situation.

This mod will not be designed for short and dirty games. But for long epic games.

Hope that helps.

[ July 14, 2002, 19:29: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

I can say right now that what you're planning is going to have a lot of grunt work; be careful with the initial values because going back later means changing 50+ entries (and that was just for a 2 tech area missile!)

Good luck!

Phoenix-D

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

I'm curious if you will be able to keep track of the real research cost of various techs as you add all these 'extra' requirements. Sure, it's fun to make up a bunch of extra sciences that have to be researched to get things, but when you have to actually play the game with all these complictaed requirements will it still be playable? I'll be interested to hear how it works out...

[ July 15, 2002, 00:10: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

most of the sciences are there aready.

It will get hard with the weapons.

But with everything else it should be ok.

Those new mod helper programs make everything alittle easier.

But I will post here.

ANd talk about it on #se4.

Dumbluck your in for the whole thing if you want.

Send me a private message with your email.

and I will contact you.

3 people will be very good for the development of the mod.

Especially for voting on issues. and watching the cost vs production ratio's

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

BM: It shouldn't be that different from Proportions where the population modifiers slow down production on everything (resources, intel, and research). This mod just lengthens the game in a different way. Now combining the two mods might be a bit over the top....

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Dumbluck:
I was just reading the thread when you had replied. It was simply some "dumb luck" that I happened to reply while you were editing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can install mounts for adjusting the range, power and size as well as the cost. However; I don't believe I've ever seen a mount adjust the speed.

Anyway mounts may be the way to go for the rest. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

You should be able to some fun stuff with mounts once the new patch comes out. Perhaps all specialized mounts (large, planet-core, tiny, etc) should have technology requirements! (construction? industry? nanotech? Advanced Materials Science?)

Perhaps the tech area "Patent Laws" should be required for mounts like cheap, premium, etc (as in the P&N mods).

As to your mod.. my only concern is that it will be impossible to figure out what the prerequisities are for specific technologies. Imagine the frustrated player researching just about anything, trying to get to a tech that they know exists, but they just can't find all the prereqs!

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Industry, I imagine.
-&gt; Bulk production
-&gt; Extreme precision machinery

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

the key is to kiss it.

The first mod will just be what is already available. Examples would be for mineral production you need industry and mineral production.

PPB you will need physics and PPB ( yes the physics will keep increasing as well ).

The goal is not to confuse,,, and some has created a program to show the tech outline.

Next week I will post a sampling of what I have created so far. I will try for Tuesday. ( Work is busy....so no fun time)

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So to get PPB IV you will need level 4 in Phased energy weapons and level 4 in physics? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Some Updates...

Work on the Facilities is coming along nicely...

I will post the pre-Version of the facilities in the mod directory if some one wants to look at it.

I should have the Facility.txt done some time next week .... mind you life keeps getting in the way.... But there is work being done.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

update http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

3 weeks then it will be ready for play testing

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

It better be!

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

well judging by my track record on mods... hey 3 are released... it should be 3 weeks plus the summer.... maybe the fall and def'n the winter...

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

3 weeks or else... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Back to what jimbob was saying, would it be an idea to mention in the tech description what other techs are required for the desired results?

For Example (from the sample you gave),

Name := Ship Construction
Description := The construction of starships and their support components. Requires research into Industry, Construction, and Space Yards for maximum results.

While the requirements may seem intuitive you must remember that we are used to the SE4 tech tree and that is the basis for our intuition (as far as this game goes). I just think that something like this could save some brain cells at three in the morning, especially for a mod like this.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

good point.
I think i will add that..

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

side point: i have been thinking and doodling a bit with a tech-grid mod idea myself. just so everyone knows that if i actually make one, i'm not being a cheap copycat. and if i do make one, it won't be a cheap copy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Tesco, you have no excuse not to finish the mod now. Get SJ's Tech Grid Modder, and you can do lots of modding in no time flat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

ha ha... yea.... Later today i will post a sneak of the common facilities for everyone.

Later in the week I will post a sneak of the common components for everyone...

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Here is the common facilities EDIT:Put an old file here before

1051536077.txt

Remember this does not include all advanced race components.

This is Version 1 of common facilities.

If you have any suggestions/comments please post here

[ April 28, 2003, 14:21: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Looks great Tesco.
If you want a beta tester, I'm in.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

That will be starting in a few weeks when I am done.

Your in.

I will also be inviting the sweet crowd along and some other pbw regulars along to play test it.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Thanks

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

JLS perhaps when it is complete you could design the basic ai files for the mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

try the file now... had an old common components file on the link

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would like that opportunity, thanks.

I should be done with the remaining se4 races as well as porting Atrocities Star Trek Races to AIC in a few weeks.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 28, 2003, 12:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Puke it is now located under the arrrrgghhh

hmm maybe not

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newup...1051536077.txt

[ April 29, 2003, 00:52: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Typoes:

Resource Converters:
Generates 300 Phasaed Shields per turn

The abiltiy desc. of Massive Planetary Shield Generator IV & V list the wrong shield values.

Climate Control Facility ability descriptions are wrong.

-=-

Also, you should move Atmospheric Modification Plants to the end, so that they are not in the middle of the value improvement plants. More of a stylistic comment than a typo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 01, 2003, 05:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

thank you... i will correct those

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Common Componenets are almost complete.... Guess I will be missing the 3weeks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron is going to be upset http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Anyways...

I will get that up this weekend I hope.

This file will not include weapons.

That will be the next part of the common components.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Any other feedback on the Facilities ??????

Please send it this way....

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Sorry if this is ground you've already covered, but with regards to facilities, would it be possible to, say, make the monolith facilities "upgraded" Versions of the regular mining facilities? Additionally, the same effect with the Temporal Shipyard from normal shipyards would be very nice. As of right now, it's highly annoying and time-consuming to make use of either of those facilites, making them virtually worthless (especially Monolith facilities).

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Yes, it is possible to mod that, but it defeats part of the balance.

Monoliths and Temporal SYs are actually many, many times better than normal facilities, even with the inconvenience of having to scrap them and the higher build cost.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

I'm not suggesting that it take any less time to install them, but it's freaking annoying to have to go through each planet, stripping out the facilities one at a time to make room for the new ones.

I would imagine that you could easily raise the cost of the facilities such that upgrading them would take just as long in the game as it would ordinarily. The only difference is that you don't have to go and individually scrap and replace each and every facility when you want to upgrade, you can just hit the "upgrade facilities" button when you get the new tech.

Would take just as long as the other way in terms of turns and resources, but it would be much less of a headache in terms of all the micromanagement. We're talking about the difference between dozens, hundreds, and potentially even thousands of clicks, and hours spent doing boring, tedious clicking, versus one simple, easy click.

Is that so wrong?

[ May 15, 2003, 07:28: Message edited by: Hotfoot ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Well, for one it removes the possibility of upgrading to, say, Mineral Miner III from I if you have Monolith tech. And if the planet is 100/0/10, you don't really -want- a monolith.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

A planet with no SY gets no racial SY bonuses (and some other SY bonuses) on it, so yes, it would be wrong making Temporal SYs be upgradeable from normal SYs, as the extra time becomes greatly diluted.

And upgrading everything to monoliths is indeed a very bad idea.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah, but you see, that's the beauty of it with the tech-grid mod. You could easily make monolith facilities unavailable for a specific mining facility until after reaching level 3 in that facility.

Allow me to explain further:
Rather than having just one monolith facility per tech level, you have four. One is the regular facility, the other three are the "upgrade" Versions for mineral, organic, and radioactive miners. Having normal monoliths means that you build them as per normal, but once you get level 3 resource production, you can begin upgrading to the appropriate monolith facilities (starting with level 1, of course).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*shrugs* This is true, but I think it is only a minor point. If you increase the cost enough, even racial SY bonuses will only be moderately effective.

EDIT: Besides which, if you're worried about racial bonuses applying to shipyard construction, why not consider advanced storage techniques as being potentially unbalancing in this regard, since a higher population will allow the temporal shipyard to build faster with or without a shipyard already in place. You could alter this number further through other racial traits as well, such as reproduction, environmental resistance, even happiness.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Personally, I think it's a bad idea to be forced to spend hours doing something which should take mere seconds. The way I have described above would seem to work without becoming overpowered.

[ May 15, 2003, 08:28: Message edited by: Hotfoot ]

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, the more expensive you make it, the more of an effect racial SY bonuses have (ie: they more expensive it is, the more time you get to save with a bonus).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are many, many instances in which one would not want to upgrade a facility to a monolith, because it would do no good, and waste a huge amount of resources. 100/0/10 value planets DO NOT need monoliths on them, and it would infact be a very bad idea to build them on such planets (as would upgrading to them).

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

value improvement plants. i put them everywhere. well, one planet at a time at first.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Value improvement plants take a while to have a large effect, and it is still a bad idea to upgrade to monoliths on those planets until much improvement has been done. You will lose a lot of production in the mean time if you switch to monoliths on 100/0/10 planets.

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

but...but...i want to maximize!

Re: Tech-Grid-Mod
 

Hotfoot.

There is currently 9 levels of production for each resource.

And 3 levels of monoliths.

The monoliths are not as powerful as they are in the stock game, and almost get outproduced on a 3 to 1 scale for minerals and 2 to 1 for organics and rad's

I like your idea.

check out the facilities file further on down... and see if you think it could work in this mod.

Right now there is 10 familes that can gather resources for the common facilities.

Perhaps your idea could be worked into an advanced trait, for the resources. For the Ship yards I will have to think about that one.

Yep I think it could ( he says to himself )