Suggestions
 

I think you should add more content hadrian, stop changing designs.

[ June 16, 2003, 02:27: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Perharps make the appropiate page @ SE.org larger and put there all the updates to the mod, like a sneak peak of some of the cooler facilities, some nice in game scenes, racial profiles and so on?

Re: Suggestions
 

We're all really interested, i woudl say the UM I was like a beta and didn't work quite rite but wetted taste buds. I'm ready to get my hands on the CD. if you need $$ i'll buy it for like 5-10

[ July 18, 2002, 20:15: Message edited by: Skulky ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Same here, I would drop some cash for it.

[ June 16, 2003, 02:28: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

I certainly hope that they do not approve of selling any mod for profit.

Re: Suggestions
 

For profit, I thought hadrian said it was going into SE.org?

[ June 16, 2003, 02:29: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Oh yeah,
Give us a little candy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. I'll be buying the CD when it comes out, and frankly, for a CD worth of stuff I don't think profit is too out of line. But hey, if you want to roll it back into the SEiv community via the .org, more power to ya.

Cheers

Re: Suggestions
 

I also agree.

[ June 16, 2003, 02:30: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Dont worry Hadrian, your 2 CDs will be a top sale in no time after the release. UM2's reputation is unbelivable.

Re: Suggestions
 

I dunno about that. UM 1 wasn't very impressive.

Re: Suggestions
 

LOL you kidding at the time the two best mods where p&n and the UM1.Also lol i had the idea for putting extras in first now whos the idea theif!Joking lol pretty damn funny how we think along the same lines,yet radically different at that...

Re: Suggestions
 

I just don't understand why anyone would pay for a mod, regardless of how extensive it is.

What can you offer;
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">New graphics - so what? If I were concerned about graphics there are plenty of other games out there. Besides, there's the Image Mod and all the different original shipsets out there. All for free.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">New components and facilities - again, so what? Anything you can come up with has to be workable with the existing game system. That means whatever you make can be done by someone else, for free.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Background story (?) - We do that on PBW all the time, for free.
  </font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Web support - How many other mods have web pages? Several that I can think of. Again, for free. </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Look, I'm not trying to belittle your work, I'm sure you've worked hard on this. But so have many other modders on thier projects that they just give away for the enjoyment of the community. I thought that was what modding was all about, having fun and sharing ideas, not making money.
I think my biggest problem with a paid mod is this - Regardless of how much work you put into a mod it doesn't compare to the amount of work that went into developing and coding the game itself. To charge for a mod would be making money off of someone elses work, bottom line.

Re: Suggestions
 

It is difficult to encourage people to pay for a Mod especially when they don't know anything about it before it's released. Perhaps give an overview of the Mod or at least part of the storyline.

Here is an example of paying for features:

The SIMS is a fun game and Users can create lots of skins and objects for use in the game. However, there are many websites where you must pay a membership fee for 30 days or so in order to download items. Ugh, I hate them.

Re: Suggestions
 

Dont' remind me of the sims, I can rant on them. Don't forget Everquest, they are even worse!

[ June 16, 2003, 02:31: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

-The Mod in itself
I don't see how your mod could be better than the mods already out there, or in development, and would therefore warrant paying for it.

-200+ Multiplayer maps
I for one am satisfied with random maps. And, I don't see how you could have 200+ truly unique maps with the SE4 system. They will either end up being repetitive or similar to the random maps.

-47 new race styles
I have at least 150 race styles that I have downloaded. There is no reason to pay for any more.

-Epic background story encompassing the history of the universe in campaigns and hopefully an ebook novel Version of that story.
This is one of the only two features that could possibly warrant charging for, but not with everything else.

-flash movies that would act as cutscenes after each scenario in the campaigns.
Cutscene movies after scenarioes are rather annoying. A lot of people I know just click escape when they come up.

-Desktop themes for the mod
Trivial feature.

-special websites dedicated to each race and contains expanded information on them.
Might be interesting, but could easily be placed on a free web server, thereby eliminating costs for you.

-special encryption prog for in-game Messages
Umm... I'm not sure what you mean by that exactly, but it sounds more like a hassle than a feature.

-music Cd of course!
IF this CD is entirely comprised of your own music, then you could reasonably charge for it. But, like the supposedly "epic background story", this should not be used to force people to pay for the mod.

Just because other people have charged for mods before for other games does not mean that it is right.

I am not saying that your mod will be a bad mod, but just that it couldn't possibly warrant charging money for. Regardless of your personal situation, mods are not objects to charge people for.

[ July 20, 2002, 20:19: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Suggestions
 

I think a price of 3$ would be sufficient to cover shipping and CD costs and more likely to be successful.

Anyways - how the heck are you working on 47 race styles!!! Ugh...that's more than any one person could do in a couple of years!

Re: Suggestions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is actually a pretty good idea. I had planned on doing a premade map library to be included on the Gold CD in January. Unfortunatly I ran out of time with the work on the Devnull mod and my scenarios. I may still do one someday though.

The need for it is simply becasue SE4 doesn't do all that good a job of spacing empires out with the random maps. You can have a large map with 8 empires and you still might have 2 right next to each other. I am not sure why it is, but it's a fact. Making a custom map for each game is certainly an option, but it complicates things if the person making the map is planning on playing in the game.

If you have enough maps and name them genaricly enough, redundancy shouldn't be a problem. You won't be able to tell what map it is jsut from your home system. You could play the same map several times and wouldn't recognize it if you were starting in different places each time. Plus the more important thing is not what the map looks like, but where the other guy is, and you wouldn't have any way of knowing that, even if you did know the map for sure.

Geoschmo

Re: Suggestions
 

Possibly... but that doesn't justify charging money for it.

Re: Suggestions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hadrian, I fail to see where anything I've said could be considered insulting. I beleive I specificly said that I'm sure you've worked hard on this. I have not criticized your work. I just pointed out that some of what you're doing will not be considered a big deal.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No sir, I did not. I did not quote every "feature" because I did not see the need and I did not wish my post to be viewed as a personal attack (guess I failed there since you were insulted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I feel for you, money is tight for a lot of us but when your hobby starts to interfere with your life or costing too much money you should either curtail your hobby or find a new one.

Now, throughout both of my Posts I have treated you respectfully. I have not attacked you or your work, I do not know you and I am sure you are a good person, so if you find this post to be insulting or an attack then you, my friend, need to get a thicker skin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Suggestions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think he has to justify charging for it. As long as he has permission from Sharpnel/Malfador to charge for it, which is fairly standard across the industry. And I seem to recall Richard saying that they would not have problems with it, assuming the quality was acceptable. Hadrian has already stated he would get their ok before he sold anything, so that's pretty much all he has to do.

Now, whether or not he will sell any is a totally different question. It is tough afterall to sell a product when your main "competitors" are giving it away. You have to make a compelling case that the quiality is way better than what they can get for free. If he does that, then more power to him.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have no comment on this, I just thought it was classic so I wanted to quote it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

[ July 20, 2002, 22:25: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Suggestions
 

id pay for it.Im sure hes going to release a demo of some sort before charging.I mean cmon its ten dollers and i dont think its for the actual material but to cover the cost of the CD,the S&H,postage,and maybe a doller or two for the actual work he did.I mean i feel either its we pay for it on CD or we pay to download it from a site due to the excessive bandwith costs...i prefer the cd.I mean god its 5-10 dollers what else this good can you buy for that?other then a whole bunch of slurpees from 7-11 and Jhonen vasquez comics i cant think of much.Besides im sure if someone offered to host it on their site,or rather give him the money for the bandwith that he would say yes.Besides cmon people its 5-10 dollers even if the mod somehow stunk to the high hevens(it doesent) youd have only lost ten dollers max...considering that i would surely pay..I dont know about them but hadrian when it comes out you have at least one customer...

Re: Suggestions
 

Shipping 2 CDs might cost $2. The CDs themselves cost at most 20 cents, and maybe 50 cents for printed labels. $10 is way more than charging just the basic costs.

Re: Suggestions
 

Whoa hey!

Enough already. If the guy gets permission, then MM must think it's up to snuff, and they obviously think it's acceptable to charge money. If you think he's charging too much, don't buy it. Likewise if you think it's wrong.
I personally think we could use Shrapnel's bandwidth for something better than arguing over this though.

Re: Suggestions
 

I have had no intention to buy it.

Re: Suggestions
 

I think if MM says it's good enough to sell, then it's good enough to buy.

[ June 16, 2003, 02:33: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Hadrian, it doesn't matter how good of a mod it is. It is the principal of the thing. Mods are supposed to be freely available to all, not charged for. I am sure that it will be a good mod. But that does not justify selling it for profit, regardless of whether MM and Shrapnel approve of you doing so or not.

If UM2 was available for a free download, I would most certainly download it and try it out. Even if I was on dial-up. Heck, I downloaded at least 100 ship sets and a bunch of mods like a year ago when I was using a dial up modem and a free ISP. Large downloads are not really a problem. And if bandwidth is an issue on SE.org, I am sure that there would be people willing to let you use their web space provided by their ISPs for hosting UM2.

[ July 21, 2002, 00:08: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Suggestions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Am I the only one that noted the "profits" from Hadrian selling his new mod would go towards maintianing SE.org?

Does the community not value SE.org as a resource ... ? Is desirign to make the hobby at least pay for itself such a horrible thing?

I don't see a problem here. Fyron, and the other objectors: if you don't want to pay for it, don't buy it ... that doesn't mean you should attack the -concept- of it being for sale. After all, what does it cost YOU, if say I decide it's worth the $10 to buy the CD ... ?

Answer: absolutely nothing.

So, where's your ***** with him selling it ... ?

Re: Suggestions
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes this is truh and if I look at the great mods that are out there I dont think there will be many customer for a Mod that you must buy. The next problem is how will thius mod spread to outside of USA? The Import cost and the Transfert cost for SEIV non Gold was more then the cost of the the game it self so I wont ever consider to get the CDs.

Re: Suggestions
 

Pax, reread my Posts if you don't see my point.

Personally, I have never seen a use for SE.org. Every time I go there recently, it is being changed to a new layout and 90% of the links are broken or lead to empty pages. It used to have stuff to download, but hasn't for a long time.

Edit: Ok, I spoke too soon. It does have a little content now.

[ July 21, 2002, 00:54: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Guys, Let's try to get this thread back on track. Your opinions have been made pretty clear on both sides. This is running close to turning into a personal argument. If you don't have any comments directly to the point of Hadrians question, he is the one who started the thread afterall, perhaps you should just keep them to yourself.

I will repost Hadrians original question here for those that don't wish to scroll down and reread it.

Geoschmo

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Suggestions
 

Then back to the original question...

I think you should set everything up in smaller files for downloading. Not just a few parts, but all of it.

Re: Suggestions
 

Well, when will the CD music come out?

[ June 16, 2003, 02:35: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Well, lets see

First I would like to know where the music is coming from, you have to watch out, you could wind up in a whole heap of copyright trouble.

Secondly I would seriously watch what you put in the mod, I know some of your race sets and much of the content of the UM1 could get you in a whole heap of trouble.

Lastly, I have to agree that I do not believe selling a mod is the right thing to do.

You statements about it going to SE.org doesn't help your arguments. Because while SE.org is very professional looking (sorta) it lacks any real content. The vast majority of it's contents are your own projects, essentially, you are asking us to fund your hobby. I would be more quick to fund universal shipyards because of their more community oriented setup.

However, if MM ok's it then I geuss you have the go ahead, and heck, if I have the money lying around I might buy it.

You definately do need to release some parts of the UM to get interest going and prove that it will be worthwile though.

Re: Suggestions
 

Hadrian:
I don't appreciate the implication that by voicing my opinion (which is shared by a number of people, btw) I have created "insanity".

Another new layout of SE.org... Personally, I think the 1st was just fine.

I was unaware that UM1 hurt some sites. But, why not put it here at Shrapnel? I doubt it will cause more of a problem than all the mods hosted at Shrapnel already.

Re: Suggestions
 

On that, I agree with fyron, SE.org is being redesigned way too much. lol

[ June 16, 2003, 02:37: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Hadrian:

Why don't you reduce the scale of the Mod a little bit? It'd be more managable for you (I don't know how the heck you were planning to make 47 races including AI files etc...) and give you more time to work on the site and really give it the content it's design deserves?

Hadrian - Stop by the gamesnet #se4 IRC chat!

[ July 21, 2002, 02:58: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Umm... I haven't seen anyone post anything about not liking or wanting the UM2. All that has been disapproved of by certain parties is the selling of it for profit. As I have said, I am sure that if/when it gets finished, it would be a good mod.

Re: Suggestions
 

Woah, who ever stated dislike for your mod?

You shouldn't put words in our mouths.

Most people don't like the idea of selling the mod, me included. But if it so contains so much content and unique things that should be sold then by all means go for it.

Re: Suggestions
 

Oh yes, Hadrian, please join us in #se4 on the gamesnet.net IRC server.

Re: Suggestions
 

As long it is OK with MM/Shrapnel, nobody can have any kind of complaints about you selling your mod. Will I or somebody else buy it - that is another question. From the abstract point of view it is no much different from, for example, Brood war pack for Starcraft. For all we know it coulod be made by another Hadrian and simply distributed by Blizzard.

Re: Suggestions
 

Not to jump off topic, but wasn't that gamesnet hacked recently?

[ June 16, 2003, 02:38: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

wow realy i love SC what was this expansion pack?

Re: Suggestions
 

I think is was also some mod made by a defunct company. I saw it reviewed once on Gamespy I think.

[ June 16, 2003, 02:39: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

Oleg:
Expansion Packs and Mods are entirely different. Expansion Packs generally add new changes to the game code that allow for new features previously impossible in the game. Mods do not do this.

Hadrian:
My comment about UM1 not being very impressive was in relation to its title as the Ultimate Mod. Such a name gives high expectations. Also, on the download page for its initial release, it listed a lot of features that were in (not going to be in, but actually in) it, but almost none of them were. The second Version added a few of these features, but not all.

Re: Suggestions
 

I ust say
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">sounds interesting and if I can get a payed download perhaps I will buy it if I like this mod. But to learn if the mod is something I like there must be a demo I could get befor I have to buy this mod.

The Problem with the titel Ultimate Mod is that I once get the Ultimate Mod just after I bought SEIV and there were a lot of dead Techtrees and missing Technologys in this mod and this is somthing that isnt good especial with a name like this.

Re: Suggestions
 

what's payed download?

[ June 16, 2003, 02:40: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

lol realy hadrian lol i dont care im a SC freak for the shear collecter s value id buy it?whats called?and btw how did you find out did you work for Bliazzard or know someone who did/does?

Re: Suggestions
 

If we buy the UM, what kind of improvements will be made to SE.org?

[ June 16, 2003, 02:42: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

Re: Suggestions
 

lol i am a completist.Where can i find it ands whats it name