The Gorn Imperium
 

I got really board. So here ya go..... Number 24.

>=CLICK HERE=< to see.

>=CLICK HERE=< to download.

[ July 19, 2002, 19:44: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Very nice,
Is there a bonus for use of gunpowder based weapons? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

only if they are firing diamonds

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

What do you mean? They are not a diamond race, they are raptillian race. He only had a diamond as a knife to fight Kirk. Kinda like you and I would have a ROCK.

Black powder? Sure, you can use it with the DUC's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 19, 2002, 19:43: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

He meant that Kirk shot some diamonds at him with an improvised cannon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

To me, the Light Cruiser to the Dreadnaught all look a bit lop-sided. Perhaps place them at a slightly different angle so that the far wing isn't completely covered up?

[ July 19, 2002, 20:26: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Very nice! Realistic textures, believable designs, and thematically consistent among the various 'classes' like transports and carriers! The WPs are quite impressive. I hate how so many race designs skimp on the units. These are quite detailed.

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or, as an alternative, remove or minimize the right wing on the other ships. Make the ships sert assymetrical on purpose. Like an outrigger. Would make them a little more unique. There isn't really a reason for a spacegoing vessel to be syumetrical is there? Even if you suppose they need to be atmospheric, it not as if those dinky sufraces woudl generate lift. And for that matter there have been assymetrical aircraft.

Geoschmo

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Hmm... that could work too. Just be consistent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

hmm, i think the size of the wings is fine. maybe rotaiting them all slightly would let the far wing be seen better, but i honestly think they are fine how they are.

on a side note, i think that Gryph and I were suggesting that they should be especially vulnerable to gunpowder based weapons, if they are being used to shoot diamonds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

My only complaint is that they don't look very much like the Gorn ships I remember from Star Fleet Battles. I remember them using saucers affixed to a single central beam-shaped structure.

Having said that, the shipset looks pretty good, and I assume they'll be heavy seeker (well, plasma torpedo) Users like the Gorn from Star Trek/SFB... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Great! I love the Gorn and always played them when playing Star Fleet Battles (1 and 2). I agree with Tsaarx that while these ships don't look like those in SFB, they are damn nice and will serve very nicely!

Cheers!
Trajan

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Very very nice, I like this set a lot.

But not Gorn. If I use them, I'll change the race pic and name ... please don't take offense, Atrocities, by the rant immediately following ...

[rant]
I really, really wish people making Trek shipsets using the races from Star Fleet Battles would do some research about said race as it appears in Star Fleet Battles.

The SFB official site can be found --&gt; HERE &lt;--

For examples of EVERY race's ship design look-and-feel, you can go --&gt; HERE &lt;-- for the Tournament Cruiser SSD's (Tournament Cruisers are all balanced to be fair fights for each otehr, barring the interaction fo specific systems from each race; SSD = Ship's System Display, a record keeping device largely for tracking damage to shields and internal systems). These ships are held to be fairly representative of the strengths and weaknesses of each race; I or another SFB veteran on the Boards can answer questions about what each system (often listed only with arcane abbreviations) does, and so on.

Scattered throughout the Starfleet Universe site, by the by, is a lot of artwork depicting various ships from the assorted races of the SFB setting.

Finally, several instances of Gorn ships (as SFB Miniatures) can be found --&gt; HERE &lt;--

It would really REALLY make me happy if folks who want to make such-and-such Star Trek race would make sure that the Race Portrait and Name are not the ONLY things which connect their creation (often otherwise QUITE nice, such as in this case) with the actual Trek race ... especially since there are usually more ship variants in SFB for ONE race, than could be accomodated in any THREE SE4 shipsets ... !
[/rant]

Atrocities ... it's a gorgeous shipset, and one I will use myself, fairly often in fact. But ... it's most assuredly not a proper Gorn shipset, I'm sorry to say. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uh, dude. Take a pill, really. Where exactly does Atrocities claim this is a Gorn shipset based on Star Fleet Battles? Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see it anywhere. And unless he did, then your rant is not only a bit excessive, but totally uncalled for.

Star Fleet Battles, while a great resource, is not the sum total and canon of the Star Trek universe.

Geoschmo

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Oh well...what can you do? It is very difficult to create an entire 3D modelled shipset from scratch and few people have the time or skill to put it together (some 40 odd ships + crap). DOGA is an easy to use program that comes with a set of parts in which to mash together and build a fleet. While I don't personally care for the program...it still takes some creativity and skill to put a set together.

What's the point?

So the Gorn ships are not the same as the ones in StarFleet battles - fine. It's not official canon so to speak anyway. I'd rather have at least a decent looking shipset than none.

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Actually, it would be smarter to go to the Online store, here: http://www.starfleetstore.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=S&Categ ory_Code=M to see the pewter miniatures if you want to duplicate the SFB ship designs.

But really, does it matter if this Gorn set is not just like SFB? Who said SFB was cannon? Did a Gorn ship ever appear in the actual Trek series or movies? I don't think so. Which means the race is open to interpretation.

[ July 20, 2002, 02:05: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Wasn't there a Gorn ship in the episode where Kirk and the Gorn captain fought? Or did we not ever get to see it?

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

since official star trek canon is written by paramount, im inclined to accept any interpretation wither it comes from a board game, a computer game, or a fan. the idea that paramount gets to put their jackboot down on whats-what in the trek universe is appaling to me, especially given their horrible creative direction.

if someone wants to say that the gorn wear pink bunny ears and dress up in french-maid outfits when they are off duty, thats fine by me.

good golly man, i played SFB when it was published by FASA. the idea that someone is a trek pureist because they cling to an outdated, rules-heavy game made off a license for a TV show, is just an absurdity.

now i like trek, and i like SFB. and i like the darned shipset too. take a laxitive.

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Um, these Gorn are um, Post STNG era. That is why the ships look differant. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hey look, I did not think that I was going to stir the hornets nest with this set. It is extremely hard to develop a cannon race based upon small images, no referances, and horrible shots. CASE IN POINT

I have made several Star Trek sets that are not cannon. That is to say, they are as close to cannon as I can make them, and since I have never before seen a Gorn ship, I opted to make them the way I felt they would look based upon my view of the Gorn.

Hell, the Andorian, Hirogen, Kazon, and an un-goddly amount of other ships were developed by me with nothing to work on except my imagination. So if this set is not up to your liking, please by all means, make a new set. I will gladly use it in my games. Until then, I hope my imagination will surfice.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pax, if you want to make the set, by all means you have my blessing. Just go learn 3d Studio Max, Povray and Movray, or even DOGA.

To be honest with you, I had no fricking clue that SFB had a Gorn set. IF I had, I would have tried to model the set a bit more closely to that. Hell I might even still try to do that. But in the intrum, if you don't like the racial picture, then feel free to use whatever you wish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You have my blessing.

[ July 20, 2002, 01:04: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

CLICK HERE for the Gorn EMP files.

OK, FIXED NOW. SORRY ABOUT THAT . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 20, 2002, 01:27: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

I'm just getting the race zip file from that link, Atrocities.

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not intending to seem like you've stirred up a hornet's nest; I -like- the shipset you made, it just doesn't say "gorn" to me, not even post-STNG ... there's no design lineage involved,your shipset isn't just "a bit different" ... it's wholly different. NICE, but .... not Gorn.

And as for that image -- it's ONE image, out of three (with each one having further details under "back"). The CA, CL, DD, and DN (Heavy Cruiser, Light Cruiser, Destroyer, and Dreadnaught, respectively) form a resonably representative cross-section of what Gorn ships look like.

In fact, the front/back scans are of the smallc ards included with the miniatures, way back in the late 70's or early 80's. The "back" portion indicates some of the design and/or intended use concerns of the Gorn, WRT why and how it was built the way it was.

The --&gt; Gorn Heavy Cruiser &lt;-- in fact is a clear indication of the general look / feel / style of Gorn ships.

As is the --&gt; Gorn Destroyer &lt;--.

And the --&gt; Gorn Dreadnaught &lt;-- is quite clear; a good clean scan, even.

On top of which, the Gorns are among those SFB races who DO have a working link to a color PDF guide for miniatures painting: --&gt; Clearly-illustrated PDF for paintign Gorn ship miniatures &lt;--. That one includes the CL, DD, DN, and BC, so it's got FOUR hulls.

Taken all together, I fail to see how those five images couldn't give one a feel for the style of the Gorn race's ships. Did you go out of your way to find the least clear image ... ?

Interpretation is fine; but IMO you need to accept -mild- criticism, which is what my prior post was. There's no excuse for not doing fifteen or twenty minutes of poking about a web search engine to get some prior images, and seeign if you can make a shipset out of the style presented there.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SFB -was- once -the- canon source; Paramount has made a habit of breaking prior contracts ... their legal department is big enough that no smallfry will challenge them,it'd be too costly. ADB originally bought hte rights *in perpetuity* to produce "official" blueprints for Trek ships of all sorts ... so yeah, technically, anything with ADB's stamp on it, is as canon as canon gets.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*sigh*

The Gorn -are- an SFB race; Paramount touched on them once or so; ADB (Amarillo Design Bureau), through their publisher TFG (Task Force Games), produced all the information on the Gorn not presented in that one, singular (IIRC) episode of TOS which evenmentioend the Gorn, and those episodes of the cartoon series which might have featured them -- in fact, IIRC, it is from that cartoon series (Paramount-made, so as canon as anythign else they made) that the style and overall look of the ships is from.

I have a bit of a pet peeve about seeing a race billed as such-and-such from Star Trek ... I open it,look, and ... it's not that race. Often, as is the case with this shipset, it's a GREAT set of ships. But it's not what it's advertised to be.

I also asked Atrocities NOT to take the rant personally -- in fact multiple times I expressed that I liked the SHIPS, but didn't think they were GORN ships; this is a -general- pet peeve of mine and that rant was directed in general to makers of shipsets.

I fyou think that's so horrible a thing ... *shrug* not my problem.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In the absence of sources that have greater provenance, however, it bears strongly on the matter at hand. And since there -aren't- any other available sources as to teh style of Gorn hulls ...

Now, one Last time, in case people missed it: I don't belittle Atrocities' work in creating a gorgeous shipset; I am only highly dismayed that yet again, it bears zero resemblance to any prior depictions of Gorn ships. Were this cut of whole cloth, and not claiming to be based on an established SF race ... I'd've applauded, LOUDLY.

But when a shipset is based on an established SF race, it well behooves the shipsets prospective author to dosome background research, and see if there's an established / accepted "style" for said race's ships.

After all, one could do a Star Wars shipset that looked NOTHIGN liek Star Wars ("TiE Fighters" that looked nothing like in the movies, etc). Wouldn't a Star Wars fan be in his rights to point out that possibly-minor failing?

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Check Atraikius' Version in the Old Scenario forum

[ July 20, 2002, 05:39: Message edited by: Andr&eacutes Lescano ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Pax, I really like the fact that you stand up for what you like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

After looking over what you have provided on the Gorn, I would have to say that I would rather not have used the SFB stuff. To be honest, and I mean no offense, those designes just look way to dated. They are TOS era, and not STNG era. Ghost has a nice set of Gorn ships that kinda match what you've posted, but now that I have had time to think about it, I am glad that I did not follow cannon, even if I didn't know about it, because I wanted to make my "own" Gorn, not rehash out dated designes.

This debate is like arguing over TOS ships verse STNG. They are some 80+ years apart.

If you were to take things as such, then it would stand to reasone that even the Gorn would evolve and use new technology, designes, and concepts.

The one thing I have to say about the Gorn is this, no one else elected to develop the race, so your stuck with my view of it until someone else comes along and does a better job.

In that time, I sincerely hope that it is used and enjoyed.

Remember, this is SEIV, not SFB. Hell I might even have a few of those lead ships from FASA floating around too. Just try and accept the set as a Gorn set for now. Hell I remember when the Enterprise D was laid upon us, NO ONE, like it, but look now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ July 20, 2002, 06:52: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Personally, I still think all the new computer-made TNG ships look lame. I much prefer the TOS designs and TOS movie models. Some SFB designs are also good (Gorns, Klingons, Lyrans, a few others), though a lot of those are kind of lame (Hydrans, Kzinti, ISC) in my opinion too. I just mean stylistically, and for my own personal tastes. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't like the TNG stuff, but to me it's lame.

(Shields up)

PvK

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

The Gorn shipset here is really very good, I think. Ya it's not an SFB Gorn set (except the portrait), and I do really like SFB Gorn designs, but this shipset is unique and very cool.

PvK

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now see, that's a reasoning I can accept (still wish you'd made something in keepign with the SFB / cartoon series examples, but ...).

Still; one thing to note is: even between TOS, Movie, and TNG+ era ... tehre is a certain design "lineage" visible in the Federation ships. TNG or TOS, Federation ships still tend to have a saucer section, a secondary hull, and engine nacelles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

While some updating overall would be appreciated ... IMO the Gorn TNG+ era ships woudl still be a pair of ovoid-ish saucers and a connecting "boom" type hull, with nacelles over-and-uncer rather than the more Federation-esque "to either side" configuration.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ttue, but again, design lineage. While a TNG Klingon cruiser, a Movei Klingon Cruiser, and a TOS Klingon Cruiser may all look different, there are also many many points of commonality in appearance; a "doctrine of style" inherent to ships that make them Klingon.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Better job ov modeling ships? I don't expect that, your ships are -very- nice looking; my only real complaint is, they don't fit with prior-established Gorn designs' style. And I've only a problem with "prior style" when an established SF identity -- be it Gorn, Klingon, Kzin, BattleTech's Clan Smoke Jaguar, the Vorlons, or what have you -- when an established SF identity carries with it certain expectations from the fan base ... and those expectations aren't even given a nod in passing.

Still, not a dig at you personally, but ... ovoid-conect-ovoid, with over/under engine configurations and small winglets for weapons, is the basic, essential "what makes a Gorn ship" foundation a Gorn set -should- IMO be made from, -if- the set is to be called Gorn.

A suggestion: rname the race "Gorn TNG" ... at least then classic-ships fans like myself won't be unduly disappointed when we discover yet another race that falls short of our expectations / hopes / desires. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll accept it as a great set ... but I'm sorry, I cannot accept it as a Gorn set.

...

It could've been worse; you could've tried to do the Tholians,with the same lackof acknoledgement ot prior, established style for the Tholian Holdfast ships. I'm a rabid Tholian fan ... in SFB, I'll play Tholians in preference to ANYthing else, even the "simulator races" with their funky, "simulator-only" gizmos ...

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks ... I'll check that AND his Kzinti out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Atrocities - No, don't pull it. If you would like, I could e-mail you the AI that I have for the Gorns I'm working on to use with your set.

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Atrocities - didn't you use this set for a different race at one time (with a more blueish color)?

Gorns - I've played SFB and then SFC for too long to really think of them as Gorns (still like the ships though). Like the Kzinti's, the TOS Version of the Gorns doesn't have much variation between sizes, and I just don't really like the SFC look for them. I'm still working on the TOS set Andres provided the like for, but haven't been able to do much with it recently because of a severe lack of time. Hopefully will have it done sometime in the near future.

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Yes. I developed the set over a year ago for the Gorn, but opted to use them for the Starwolf instead because I wanted to update that race. I love the Starwolf set, it is my favorite set. I really had to do some thinking before committing to go ahead with the Gorn set.

Atraikius's Gorn set is more to the SFB's and uses the Ghost TOS sets. It did not have a Gorn Race image so I was under the impression that it was a differant Gorn set. I did not connect the ship images to Ghosts Fleet Doc until today. I am sorry Atraikius. Me bad.

I will pull the NASY Gorn set if it is not wanted. Otherwise, think of it as the "Advanced" Gorn set from STNG era.

[ July 22, 2002, 12:13: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Please do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I will wait to release the next Version. (I have repositioned a few ships to give the wings more of an ethstetic view.) Added EMP files.

If you want you can use the race image for your set as well. It would be nice to have Two Gorn sets. A TOS and a STNG Version. What do you think? You can use either one of these if you want to:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newup...1027487448.BMP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newup...1027487568.bmp

[ July 24, 2002, 06:13: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Atrocities, do not pull the set. It is excellent. It doesn't matter if it matches pseudo-canon sources or not.

[ July 24, 2002, 07:23: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

Yeah, I like this Gorn set even if it isn't 'cannon'. The only flaw I could name would be that the far 'wing' was hidden on certain ships so that's great that the angle of display has been altered in the revision. I think you should try to get this set added to the TDM modpack.

Re: The Gorn Imperium
 

I agree, don't pull it! It goes along great with all your other shipsets.

Be proud and don't let one lone voice spoil it for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Katchoo