Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

This is just a poll to see if you've ever been beat by the AI. I've played the AI a few times now and haven't got beat yet. Hardest setting I've played is 3 planet start with high difficulty and low bonus. I'm about to start a game with high and medium settings. If I get that easy then I'll move onto a high and high setting. Even though I hate playing the AI I do it for when I'm waiting on my files from PBW to come. It passes the time quicker. So... have you ever been beat by the AI?

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

does it count if you are beaten by your own ministers inability to do anything right?

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah sure does. I didn't even think about that for a question. Too bad I can't edit the poll now.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I'll admit, the AI beat me once. i was playing the Terrans and the star was about to go nova by round 10. So I built a massive number of colonizers and transports....

I fled directly into an enemy fleet and got killed so many times I had died from dying!

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I finished a solo Gold game with the Victory Condition "Score = 1M" in 5th place out of 9. The winner was the TDM-Modpack Ukra-Tal, who had triggered Mega-Evil Empire more than two years before the game ended.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I would use the Victory Condition "Score =1M" to "Score =3M" I'd probably lose. I usually am way behind for the first few years. Then by mid-game to late-game I'm kicking butt.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I've never been beat by the AI, but then I've only finished one game against the AI (and not many more against humans!), and that was with Version 1.02 when the AI was REALLY ####!

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Like half the people here have NEVER been beat by the AI???

riiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhhtttt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

what level do you all play on? Warm mushy soup level? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I only play on highest difficulty, highest bonus. That setting can be a challenge, especially if you start the game with a couple of paranoid AI races nearby...

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I used to play high difficulty, high bonus, large galaxy, medium or high number of AIs. I took 1st place by no later than turn 10 (usually on turn 1, but not every time). I never played the AI on any setting lower than high bonus and difficulty. I never finished a game against them, because it always ended up with me owning 50% or more of the galaxy and mopping up all the AIs at once. It was boring. Now, I just play humans.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Just three little words that mean sooooo much...

AI TEAM MODE

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Gets me every time.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I'm not affraid to say that have lost a lot with this settings: 5 TDM AI's + small galaxy + High AI + High Bonus + AI Team.

Usually never waited to play until lose the Last planet... and started a new game...

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

No

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Large galaxy, 19 TDM AIs, high bonus, high difficulty.

Ended up occupying 3 systems in the middle of the galaxy. Surrounded by Rage, Aquilieans, and the Klingons. Held two of the three at bay...never made it to the end of that game, but I conceed defeat.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's right man, NEVER been beat by the AI. But I might here soon, depends on if I try the Team Mode thing out. That'll make it tougher.

Hmm, I'm going to try TDM races in my next game with a Large galaxy, probably medium or high number of AI's, high difficulty, high bonus, might try team mode. We'll see how this goes.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Blush, I am one of those who will admit that yes I have been beat by the AI, blush again, the settings I used, 5000 racial points for AI, I only take 1500 or none, high difficulty, hi bonus, med to large map, high ai opponets, no neutrals, I played straight no specials like temporol, psychic, religious etc. I don't like the neutrals they way they currently are set up in the game, makes it to easy for a human player, IMHO only.

So beat me,

Blushing Mac

[ July 20, 2002, 04:37: Message edited by: mac5732 ]

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Yeah, me gits beat by them alyuns all the time...

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Beaten by an AI? Does the Space Monsters count? If so then YES, I was beaten, trodden on, chewed up, and spit out into a black hole! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
But to give myself credit that was by the ORIGINAL monster settings. I challange ANYONE to beat those original monsters. Especially starting only 2 systems away! Note: My Last colony was a whopping 7 systems away from Monster central and still was creamed by a giant worm.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Oh yes, I have been beaten by the AI sometimes!

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Sure I've been beaten by the AI, especially if starting out next to them when they have a bonus.

PvK

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Once or twice (not counting my most stupid destruction of my homeworld by enemy escort-scout). Usualy in a bad game AI locks me up on defense and slowly destroys my space. I might have survived in such cases but i cannot be sure because i never waited till the end in such occasion becasue it becomes boring.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I've been beaten by TDM AI. People who are very proud about being head&shoulder (P&G tm) above AI probably never played TDM at highest settings. If you are unlucky with starting position, it may be absolutely impossible to win. Does not matter how good you are.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, this is what I've heard. That's why in my next game I'm using TDM races with the highest settings. I think it'll be a fun game. I'll get beat probably but hey, nothing wrong with that!

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Just a little life history ...

I was in severe withdrawal from my favorate game Galactic Civilizations because I didn't have OS/2 anymore. So I searched CNET and downloaded the demo of SE3.

And was rapidly whipped to a froth by the AI.

Seriously... I couldn't do anything. Oh so many stories. I couldn't understand tactical combat so ship design was random. My best story? I designed a ship with boarding parties... AND IT GOT BOARDED AND CAPTURED BY THE AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I'm still at a loss for how that happened. Once I won, by turning on all ministers. Neat trick it had -- building spaceyards in the asteroid fields and sending ships everywhere from there.

So I went to the MM website and found out about SE4, waited for the demo to be ready and downloaded it. Lots of eyecandy, good interface, new rules. And I got mysleff royally spanked yet again from the AI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I paid for and ordered the full game before I ever was able to even survive 100 turns. Boy, wouldn't it have been stupid to own a game you couldn't play well at all? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Soon I figured it out. Pay attention to each planet, adjust ship design to what you see around you, the AI is heartless and wants nothing less than complete galactic domination -- and those are the peaceful ones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (that is the biggest diffence between SE4 and GalCiv)

Long story short, if the AI is too easy for you MoO geniuses, it's because MM wrote it for people like me.

Perhaps in SE5, there could be different sets of AI files -- low dificultly would use a simpler AI files, high difficulty would use very efficient TDM modpack-like files.

[EDIT] Com'on newbies. 'Fess up. Some people have mentioned that they were losing and needed serious help. Anyone else just pick a race that looked good in the quickstart menu, start playing (just what dificulty does it usewhen you do that), and just fail to build enough of the right facilitys and ships and just lose all planets and ships to a AI assault?

[ July 20, 2002, 14:24: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

This happened recently; I was trying out Fyrons Quad Mod with high tech and TDM races. I was hell-bent on colonising every planet in my home system before spreading out. I had managed to do it and built-up some kick-*** defenses. I started sending out some survey ships to start spreading out. The new turn started and I read that a star had been destroyed. Oh no! The AI had the same idea as I did (I had two star destroyers being built). It wasn't until moving further down in my Messages that it clicked in my head, That was my home system's star!! I had forgotten to build a system shield! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Whether I was defeated by the AI or my own stupidity is your call! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Nope, never been strategically defeated by the AI, although it can win the occasional battle here & there. It's just too simple-minded, and never presses the advantage when it has it. That's why I think we need more game features to keep human players busy. Space monsters, pirates, etc. When life gets more complicated you'll have more trouble using your superior thinking skills to whip the AI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A Quick Start game always uses the same default settings that you see on New Game/Set-Up. It doesn't remember the settings you started the Last New Game with.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I actually had to concede defeat once; I had an AI race on either side of my starting systems (Ukra-Tal on one side, Xi'chung on the other). Life was pretty good at first; I set up trade & research alliances with both, I had colonies everywhere I could get to without going through the AI's space, and then the AI decided to claim the systems I'd colonized. And backed up their claim with warships. Since I'd been playing fairly peacefully, I hadn't bothered to mine the warp points or build weapon platforms. Well, the AI came through with warships and started glassing planets. And not just one per turn, the AI would actually hit every colony in a system in one turn (sometimes it would take two turns to hit ALL the colonies, but the AI was following through on that second turn!) Anyway, I spent a number of turns building up minefields and had minelayers constantly replenishing the minefields, but the AI eventually had enough minesweepers to make that tactic useless. I did manage to get a plague-bomb-armed ship to a Xi'Chung colony, and the population was wiped out by the plague, but that was a minor victory. I eventually got tired of fighting a defensive war, and conceded defeat.

I think that was my one and only high-bonus game. I've stuck with medium bonus since then. (Always use high difficulty, of course; large (254 system max) galaxy, large number of both AI and neutral races, 5000 racial point settings).

I've also gotten in the habit of putting minefields at every warp point entering my territory (and the more strategic warppoints within the territory as well). I'm still pretty lax about weapon platforms, but I haven't had my head handed to me in a while, so it hasn't hurt me much.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Actually, I got to thinking, although I've never been beat by the AI. I was getting beat once in a game. I was using the Devnullmod with Space Monsters. I was about 2 systems away from the home of the Monsters and they started coming at me with their - for lack of better word - "things" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif . I probably would've lost that game, but I accidently saved over it with another game I was playing. Which stunk because I was enjoying that game alot. It was a great challenge. Maybe after I finish the game I just started with the TDM races I will start another Devnullmod game and see how that one goes.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Suggestion: If you really like the challenge, don't play with Large galaxies against the AI. And don't forget to select AIs vs Humans.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

The toughest situations I've encountered (and yes I've lost a few of them) are when I've encountered an aggressive AI early. At that point in the game the AI doesn't get as confused about what it is doing, so it seems to be able to focus on you more, while you have less depth to use as defense. Once an aggressive AI with any kind of a bonus is in your home system with a fleet early in the game, you are hurting.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Well, I'm now 3 years into my new game with the TDM AI and myself. Right now I'm in fifth place overall. I went the first 2 years without finding any empires but I recently found 3. One nutral, the Phong, and the Abbidon. I'm in a Trade and Researh alliance with the Abbidon and the nutral race. But the Phong are starting to give me hell. They got the Acid weapons and crap so they are ahead of me by aways. They are in first place if that tells you anything. I'm holding my own right now. They arn't pushing TOO hard. If they tried they could break into my system easy. But they won't come near to taking out my whole empire. Which is 9 systems 49 Planets. 28 ships and 1412 units. So I should be able to hold them off pretty easy. I'm working on mining warp points all over the place. I had my main planets build 100 mines each, and then build mine layers, so that helps. It took them 9 turns to build the mines. But this is pretty tough so far. I'm looking forward to finishing this game.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, I'll have to take that into consideration. I'll have to do that next game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Master Belisarius hit the nail on the head.

Play with his suggestions, the critical factor being small galaxy , and if you get poor positioning, and bad luck, oh yes, you will lose, no matter who you are.

As you send your first scout/colony through the first warp point, you bump into some 5000 point souped-up warlike race (even the Krill will do this consistently), they will immediately proceed to scorch your single planet homeworld... and there is little you can do.

With the High AI bunus they will be pumping out LCs before you get to Mines or Ship Construction 2.

It's all about the settings... I often used to handicap myself as much as possible, and surprisingly enough, I've pulled out victories. But I would venture to say that people who have not lost have not set a real handicap for themselves.

I will admit, however, that my losses to the AI are in the opening stages and are due to poor starting position. In the long run, I agree, the AI can't compete.

While we are on the AI thing, I find that the Romulan race continues to be a VERY tough competitor in Team mode... it beats the heck out of its neighbors and expands quickly. By the time I meet them they give a surprisingly tough fight. Kudos to their creator.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

The only time I have ever lost was actually a non-game accident. I played a med tech, high AI, low bonus, and by year 10 I was in 2nd place with the pretorian empire in 1st place ahead of me by about 40% with a score above 2M. I was trying to play a non-aggressive game. Suddenly the game says that the victory conditions have been fufilled. I had no idea what happened. I remembered that I set the victory conditions to be peace after 10 years, and I checked the victory conditions and realized that I had accedently checked the 'after this many years elapse' box rather than the 'conditions only apply after this many years' box. Needless to say that was the first game I lost. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Scrytub Ka'Lorrith
Krintarian Imperium

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

I think MB's best suggestion is the AI's vs human condition. It takes away the treaties with AI options and therefor no treaty trading so you have to research everything on your own and are instantly at war with every race you meet, kind of like instant MEE.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

In my case the queston should be,
"How many times have you been beatten?". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif
My worse defeat was wen Lorne Greene of the TDM Colonials glassed my planets. I never belived he would even attack.
Lesson Learned: "The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife".

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Never in a normal game (one that isn't a scenario) but it could quickly kill me in the game I am playing now.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

What the heck... Something is messed up here. I'm 3.8 years into my game with TDM races, and I had the warp point to my system from theirs sealed off with 106 mines and 13 ships. Consisting of Cruisers, LC, DD's. Then the empire that I'm at war with sent a fleet of 9 ships into that warp point and the mines didn't touch them one bit, and they are gone now. What the heck happened here? They had no ships with minesweepers in that fleet of ships, so that's like totally confused me. Any help would be appreciated.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Oh dear lord... Save me! 2 turns after they take out my mine field by unknown causes, they send a fleet of 45(!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ships through my system. So far they haven't done anything. But I'm sure they will. This is going to be tough.

Edit: Ok, so far so good. I've got my talisman, that's helping out alot! Without it I'd stand no chance, I got my DUC IV's on Battleships with that talisman.. I think I fit 7 or 8 DUC's on each one. Nothing has beat one so far in a simulation. At least nothing that particualar enemy has. But that could change quickly. As long as they don't force that fleet of 43 on me I'll be ok.

[ July 23, 2002, 04:45: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What race breeched your minefield? Some of them (the Rage being one) carry one or two sweepers on most of their combat ships.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, just a shot at the dark. What kind of warheads did your mines have? Some components (scatter armor III for example) cannot be destroyed by warheads I. Those ships would plow right through.

edit: also, if you play simultaneous move, sometimes the message that a mine field was triggered is not displayed. I think that happens when the whole minefield is lost, but I am not 100% sure.

Rollo

[ July 23, 2002, 10:18: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, just a shot at the dark. What kind of warheads did your mines have? Some components (scatter armor III for example) cannot be destroyed by warheads I. Those ships would plow right through.
Rollo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I had warheads I on large mines. Which components will allow them to go right through? I'd post pictures of the 2 ships that were in that fleet but I can't find the upload section, (being tired don't help any), so I'm just gonna tell ya what they have on them...
On their BC's they have:
The normal bridge and life support and such.
6 engines.
3 Shard Cannon X's - Large mount.
1 High energy magnifier III - Large mount.
1 PD cannon
Combat sensors III
ECM III
Multiplex Tracking(4)
3 Shield generator V's
2 Crystalline Armor III
1 Supply storage
1 Self destruct

The LC had:

6 engines.
2 Shard Cannon X's - Large mount.
1 High energy magnifier III - Large mount.
1 PD cannon
2 Shield generator V's
1 Crystalline Armor III

That's the LC's.

[quote]
edit: also, if you play simultaneous move, sometimes the message that a mine field was triggered is not displayed. I think that happens when the whole minefield is lost, but I am not 100% sure.[/qoute]

That is true, sometimes they arn't displayed. But the thing is, a message would come up that, "The so-so empire has encountered your minefield at so-so cords." But none of their ships would take damage. Would the Armor they had on the ships not take damage from the Warhead I's? That's only thing I can think of from what you said.

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Raganok,

Dumbluck explained it on Adamant004 game forum.
I'll try to fill you in.

1. Mine Warhead damage does not do partial damage to componants. It is all or nothing.
2. Mine warhead 1 does 100 (Kt) damage, so armor or componants with damage points above 100 survives.
3. Mine warhead 2 does 200 damage so ...., but only Drones and space yards have greater than 200 damage points.
Since drones are units, shield points are converted to damage points, and the drone is intact until the max damage is exceeded. Mines are not capable of exceeding some drones damage rating.

That fleet had Crystaline Armor 3 with 150 damage points. Since armor is damaged first, and the damage is all or nothing, it would escape harm.

A colony ship could be used a a low tech (bug exploit) mine sweeper for mine warhead ones. Just send one into the field and only the colony componant will survive.

I hear this will be fixed in the next patch.

[ July 23, 2002, 21:55: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

A ships with scattering armor and no other armor will pass through a minefield of level I warheads completely undamaged. It doesn't have to be Scat III. Scat I and II have structure of 150 as well.

A ship with Organic Armor II (125) or III (150) and no other armor will do the same.

A ship with scattering armor (Or Org II or III) and other armor will take damage to the other armor, but no other components will be destroyed.

A ship with internal components that exceed 100 tons of structure, colony comps, repair bays, space yard (Maybe some others I can't recall) Will take lots of damage, but not be destroyed. With enough mines you could end up with nothing left but the particular component, but all the mines will be gone.

All this changes with the new patch coming out however. The problem is currently damage is calulated a warhead at a time and partial damage goes away between warheads. That is being changed.

Geoschmo

Re: Have you ever been beat by the AI?
 

Ohhh ok, I get it now. Thanks Geo and Wardad. That clears it up alot. It's nice to know it wasn't a fluke but just part of the game and how it works. I'm still learning to deeper things of the game even though I've had it for about 6 months or more now. But thanks again...