malfador-off topic
 

hi

didn'u know where else to post..i'm curious if anyone has any opinion on malfador's new roleplaying game.

i went to their site and the graphics look crappy but i was thinking maybe the gameplay will have some depth like SE4

Re: malfador-off topic
 

I think it is supposed to be a nostalgia game, hence the crappy graphics.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Don't know if I'd call the graphics crappy... unfashionable maybe, (because they're not full 3D rendered blah blah blah) but I was never bothered about fashion anyway. I think they look just fine considering the genre and gameplay.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Define 'crappy' -- non-photorealistic? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I think the level of detail/realism of the graphics is not a big deal in a fantasy game. Anyway, it's apparently supposed to be in the 'rogue-like' genre, which includes NetHack, the ultimate ascii graphics game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I actually dislike the 'graphical' mode in NetHack. I much prefer to play in ascii mode.

[ July 24, 2002, 13:26: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Nethack is cool.

Diablo is just graphical and dumbed down Nethack.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif I've never heard of Nethack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif What is it, besides a non-graphical, more intellectual Version of Diablo (which I've never played, either. What can I say, my gaming budget isn't very big.)

Re: malfador-off topic
 

I am looking forward to the game myself. I don't know about the rest of you, but it looks like it will be a lot of fun.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

You kidding me. Those are RPG graphics in effect. I loathe 3d games.

Ahhh....
*Menschenfresser remembers back to when he was just a wee fresser stabbing 2d baddies with various sharp objects. (read in 2d, not the luxurious 3/4 view that Malfador is giving us.)*

I even noticed that Malfador has developed a graphical style all its own.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

I think the graphics are fine myself. Remember it will be JUST as moddable as SE:IV.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Nethack is a free open source game that is addictive as hell.

http://www.nethack.org/

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Dungeon Odyssey is addictive as hell once you get playing.

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I think i will be skipping that game. I will stick to the Bioware adventure games.

It looks like a game made for nintendo. ( 8bit )

I do not think I could go from the current crop of adventure games to that one. Even if it is freeware... which i doubt it is.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

It just occured to me, Couldn't DO be modified in a way where it can be ported to other platforms like playstation, nintendo, and such.

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I would have to agree with tesco on this one. I am in chapter 2 of Neverwinter and it is awesome, graphics, storyline, roleplay, all good. It would be hard to digress to something that looks as archaic as DO.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

If eye-candy is more important to people than storyline and gameplay for people here ... if folks prefer appearance over -substance- ...

.... IMO that's sad. 8(

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Pax,

There will always be those who prefer great graphics to strong play. Those people usually don't care about longevity of thier games...it's sort of like a roller coaster to them. Run thru it one and it's over. I can't blame them...but for my money, I want replayability. Like nethack or ADOM. For the money, they can't be beat, because they are FREE!

Re: malfador-off topic
 

I'm not very thrilled with the graphics either, but you can easily convert the terrain graphics from civilization 3 to be used in DO (best thing about civ 3 for me).

Haven't tried neverwinter, but it has more replayability than the baldurs gate series (isn't the same as Last time but with different characters), and has some very interesting posibilities from a DM's aspect (as in writing modules), and for Mod's (could be modded for anything from ancient history to role-playing an intelligence mission in the SEIV setting).

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Best. Game. Ever.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nethack? Can you explain why? I downloaded it and tried it a few months ago. I don't want to start a fight, but it was pretty boring to me. But maybe I was missing some aspect of it or something. move, fight, move, fight, die. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Half the time I didn't know there was a creature there until after I had killed it, or it had killed me.

Geoschmo

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Geo,

to be honest, nethack and other rougelike games are not for everyone. The graphics pretty much suck, and the story usually takes a back seat. The point of the game is the joy of slaughtering monsters and trying to stay alive as long as possible. Or finding new ways to die, like the time in ADOM when my 11th level Paladin died from eating a Gorgon corpse. Just a note, if you eat a Gorgon, you WILL turn to stone... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Most Rougelike games take a while to get used to as they have a ton of commands, and you will generally die a lot while trying to learn the game. To make Nethack a bit more fun, try Nethack Falcon's Eye (www.the-underdogs.org) as it has much better graphics. Or for another dungeon crawl, try this game:
http://www.valinor.freeserve.co.uk/k...harnemain.html

Re: malfador-off topic
 

I don't mind the lack of graphics. There did seem to be a LOT of commands, I will grant you that. The main thing I didn't like about it was there didn't seem to be any point to the game. The reason I liked D&D so much was getting into the character and becoming part of this universe. I don't need graphics for that, but I do need some kind of story, besides just wandering a random ceries of caves killing as many creatures as I could find. I am hoping DO has that, or I will not care for it much I am afraid.

Geoschmo

[ July 24, 2002, 19:32: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Best. Game. Ever.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was addicted to Angband/ZAngband for about 5 years. It took me a year and a half to beat it the first time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It's really satisfying to kill a 'D'.

http://thangorodrim.angband.org/

Even. Better. Than. Nethack.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

fight, move, fight, die?

granted, but you are missing alot. a cockatrice will turn you to stone. if you are wearing gloves, you can kill one and wield its corpse, and turn other monsters to stone. if you are wearing a ring of slow-digestion, you will have an easier time fighting your way out of a purple worms stomach if it swallows you. if you make the right sacrafice, you can convert an alter of a hostile god to that of a friendly one.

there are an innumerable number of options and possibilities. you can gain intrinsic abilities by eating things with those abilities. if you polymorph your self into a rock-eating or metal-eating monster you can gain intrinsics by eating certain magic items or amulets.

you can achieve different spell effects by reading a scroll or book of magic while holucinating or confused. you can tame creatures and they will follow you as a pet. you can make pets more loyal by feeding them. loyal pets help you detect which items are cursed, and might bring you things they pickup from the dungeon.

if you drop something you are not planning on using, dont be supprised when a wandernig monster picks it up and uses it against you.

and thats not even scratching the surface. the game has been being revised for about 20 years now, and features keep going in. the developers themselves still run into several supprises when they play the game.

imagine if SE4 was open-source, and people had been modding it and adding features for TWENTY YEARS.

thats why its the Best. Game. Ever.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hmm, while those ARE fighting words, i will let it slide this time. i will take this opportunity to point you towards MANGBAND though, multiplayer Online angband. www.mangband.com

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Geo, it's about solving the puzzles. You have to be a very 'verbal' person to like nethack or the other 'rogue-like' games because they're about word-magic, and that requires thinking. Eating the corpses of monsters often gives you powers that the monsters had, for example, but sometimes it has bad effects, too. Half the fun of the game is seeing 'what happens if...' you eat a certain item, or wear a certain combination of items. As Puke says, you can wield a cockatrice corpse as a weapon. This is called the 'rubber chicken' attack, btw. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The elaborate 'ritual' required to open the final level and get at the Wizard is amazing. I never would have figured it out myself. Had to read a spoiler file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The other half of the fun is how unbelievably smart the monsters are. I once killed a cockatrice and did NOT pick up the corpse, then ran around a corner to avoid another 'monster' (a human guard of some sort) while I healed. The guard picked up the corpse (he had gloves obviously) and tried to use it against me! I've had incredible battles with demon lords too, where he/she/it used every trick you'd expect a player to use and we wiped out entire levels of the dungeon before I finally got him/her/it. Sometimes I had to go back for healing/replenishment of resources several times before winning the battle with that one 'monster'. If the AI in SE IV was a fraction as smart as the nethack AI we'd all be begging for mercy, not whining about how bad it is.

[ July 24, 2002, 20:23: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Well, I am verbal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And I like puzzles, and thinking. I guess maybe I just didn't give it enough of a chance to grow on me.

I used to love the old text based adventure games, like Zork. They didn't even have an ascii head over display like Nethack. You wanted to look at the room you typed a command and got a descrition of the room. So I don't need graphics to make me happy by any means. And that Midway game Puke fixed for me a while back was ascii like nethack.

Are there "adventures" or scenarios in nethack or is it all random? And is there any way to play with more than one person?

Geoschmo

Re: malfador-off topic
 

"If eye-candy is more important to people than storyline and gameplay for people here ... if folks prefer appearance over -substance- .."

All other things equal, a game with superior graphics and sound wins. All other things being equal.

And personally a game with REALLY bad graphics is worse than a text game to me. They make me nausous.

Phoenix-D

Re: malfador-off topic
 

If eye-candy is more important to people than storyline and gameplay for people here ... if folks prefer appearance over -substance- ...

.... IMO that's sad. 8(

...

Ok.... No where did i say I like the Bioware games because of eyecandy.

Bioware games have 'substance'

I just don't see why that game is being developed when the current crop of Role-Playing/Adventure games are fantastic.

Would you pay 49.99 US for that game?
When you can spend 19.99 and pick up Baulders Gate 2 ?
Or 9.99 and pick up the icewind dale games...
Hell, 4.99 and pick up the AD&D boxset with the eye of the beholder series,,, pools of radiance.. etc if you want some throw back.

Or the Kings Quest,,,or Wheel of time or...wizardry...

Icewind dale II will be out soon.

There are many many RPG Games out there.

Well off again...

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For those of us who have played almost all of the games you mentioned above, having another is not a real problem.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">someone else actually fixed that for you. i remember the thread on the forum about it, but i dont recall who actually did the work.

edit: regarding scenarios in nethack, each class has a major quest it must complete. there is also a main quest in the game, that requires a fair amount of do-ing. there are also several optional quests and levels that can be found through the game. there are also several optional role-play restrictions you can attempt to play under (maintain a pious devotion to your god, stay vegitarian, dont use genocide, dont polymorph, stay an athiest, etc)

The game called Nethack instead of Netquest, so you have to expect that the focus is not on questing and story line. there is some, but you have to be willing to streach your imagination a bit if you are concerned with playing in-character.

[ July 24, 2002, 22:08: Message edited by: Puke ]

Re: malfador-off topic
 

IIRC SJ fixed Midway. Correct me if I'm wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but the problem with most of the above games is that the story is hard coded. Of course you are free to do what you will during the game, but eventually you have to beat the foozle and win the game. What the new Malfador games looks like is that the user is going to have the ability to, if they are so inclined, mod the game and play the entire Wheel of Time series if they wish. Or Game of Thrones. Or whatever. Now that, I personally consider superior to every game you mentioned.

P.S.-since I don't have the HD space (or probably the hardware overall) to play the new generation of games, I can't speak for them. Everyone seems to be enjoying them right now, and that's great. I'm still a bit skeptical about what people call "great" these days. When you have so much crap shoveled on you, eventually a meodicre game will appear to be "great" to some...but I digress.

Puke- I read that NetHack used to be called Hack in the old days. Even more of a clue about the gameplay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT:
[rant]Wheel of time DOES NOT deserve to be mentioned with these other games!! It was a first person shooter with a plot. Dang game really cheesed me off! [/end rant]

[ July 24, 2002, 23:38: Message edited by: sachmo ]

Re: malfador-off topic
 

You're right Mephisto. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Neverwinter Nights is fully customizable (and can have a Dungeon Master in the game too). I think the newer Pool of Radiance is also mod-able.

[ July 24, 2002, 23:40: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Well, I personally am a big, big fan of MoM. The combinatorics of races/books/spells and ultimately strategies is still puzzling me. And I don't care about outdated graphics.

[ July 24, 2002, 23:49: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Sachmo: indeed, it was originally Hack. I believe Hack was a direct spin-off from Rogue, the father of all Roguelike-games. When the sourcecode was published for Hack and it became a large distributed development effort to maintain and develop the game (one of the worlds first opensource projects) involving the entire 'net' the game was given the monkier "Nethack"

what the heck was this thread originally about, anyway?

Re: malfador-off topic
 

The cool thing about nethack is each game is VERY different. You start each game with a different variety of weapons/magic/skills that make your initial level choices interesting. Then once you get to a certain level there are a ton of sub quests and sub areas that, again, change every time with some areas have some basic flavor.

And the gameplay is pretty limitless as to what choices you can make and suceed. Do you want to be nice and buy things from a shopkeeper or do you want to train your pet to steal items out of the shop or do you kill the shopkeeper to get the stuff or do you teleport out of there or do you dig your way out of there, etc. Each issue in nethack can be solved in a myriad of ways.

It's hard to explain unless you get hooked. Of course the best one is to get the wand that transforms your items/pets/yourself into other items. I love to zap my pet and end up with a dragon, or to zap a puny peice of armor and come away with something really cool.

But hey I'll stop now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep. That was me. I made a colorized Version, and a standalone EXE Version as well.

http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/Miscellaneous/Midway.exe

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Ack! I am so sorry SJ for getting that one wrong.

Geo

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Oo....so many nethack fans.

Check out http://nethack.devnull.net/
Unfortunately the telnet server seems to be down at the moment.

The tournament is in a couple of months, maybe we should have a challenge for the SE players to see who can get the best score in that period. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And talking of moddable RPGs I'm surprised nobody mentioned morrowind . The game is awesome. Can't stop playing it. Must find a daedric short sword.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

most daedric items are leveled drops. you can try looking in ruins or strongholds, but unless one is laying about as part of the scenery, you wont get one off a monster untill you are fairly high level. like over 20, i think. the things are just too darn heavy though, especially the Daedric plate. The glass armor is pretty neat, but i feel like the Guyver when im wearing it.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

http://www.acaeum.com/

cool link.... for those who used to role the dice

Re: malfador-off topic
 

I find it interesting that Shrapnel is marketing a second heavily moddable RPG. After all, there is Runesword already out there; why do they need another one? Isn't that counter productive, having two similar products out there, competing against each other? How is that good business sense? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Then again, what do I know about "business sense"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Well Shrapnel is in the business of selling games. If Malfador has an RPG now why shouldn't they push it? RSII is several months old, and Crosscut has not made any sort of commitment to making an RSIII anytime soon AFAIK. I doubt that DO is going to affect any ongoing sales of RSII. But on the other hand I am sure if and when Crosscut has their next game ready Shrapnel will be happy to sell it too.

Think of Shrapnel as the record label and the developers as the artists. It's not a perfect analogy, but it will do. A record label wouldn't try to only sell one artists albums would they? Not if they had a choice anyway.

Geoschmo

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Actually we see it as mutually assisting each other. Bringing another strong RPG title just helps out both products. Plus RSII has been out for awhile, so I don't see how it can do anything but help sales.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Why wouldn't shrapnel push it? It is a product malfador is producing, shrapnel can't stop them, and shrapnel has a contract (I assume) with malfador. It is just common sense to sell a product you have.

How much are they planning to sell this thing for? I don't think I would pay much more than $20.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Speaking of RPGs I went down to Software ETC on 34th street. Bought Soulbringer and Icewind Dale for a combined total of 20 bucks. Cheap games are better games.

Playing Soulbringer now. Meh, it's ok being the cheaper of the two. Cost me 5 bucks. Being sprites, the eye candy characters aren't bad. Especially when I decapitate my assailants with a sabre. HAHA.

I've always been of the opinion that combat in RPGs mostly sucks. I can't stand the Final Fantasy style...ultra boring. Diablo is pointless hacking...more akin to the old Gauntlet games. I think I burned up a mouse finishing Ultima Underworld, with all the click, hold, move, unclick, etc. The realtime used in games like Planescape: Torment is a bit better, but it can get frustrating, and once you are toting around 5 or 6 NPCs in your party, a battle with several beasties can become micro-management hell. Some may remember Darklands. A bit like Torment, but slower. Honestly, I must say, one of the better systems, and it may be because of its simplicity, was the original Legend of Zelda for the Nintendo. Reason? Shield, not the sword. There was definitely a give and take feel to it. If you were attacking you were vunerable. Certain shields stopped certain things. The one I am playing now, Soulbringer has a little of that, but the computer handles the defense. It is nothing you can do really. The combat moves rather realistically, but pathfinding in this game is awkward and slow.

Point being...I've never played an RPG where I thought, "ah, this is how all RPG combat should be done."

Re: malfador-off topic
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So basically it will have a similar level of flexibility and world-making to Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Morrowind, however, has one critical advantage: FAR superior graphics.

I don't know about others, but a large part of being immersed in a game for me is how realistic the graphics are. I won't feel like I'm really in a game world if the characters I'm looking at are small sprites with 5 frames of animation.

I'll stick with Morrowind. I've already begun some preliminary work to reproduce the Warhammer World, largely to see some of the awesome sites and structures in it. I don't think you'd get quite the same feel without a high-quality 3d engine.

Re: malfador-off topic
 

WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THAT THE DUNGEON ODDESY DEMO WAS UP?!?!?! What a great day! Patch for SEIV and a new game to screw around with!

Re: malfador-off topic
 

Noble713, it's true there are some really nice looking 3D rpgs out now (Neverwinter Nights, Elder Scrolls III) that are moddable, but consider that if you want to create a totally new creature for those games, you're going to have to know how to do some 3D modelling or know someone who can do it for you, and then figure out how to properly import it into the game. It's even more complex if you want create your own kinds of 3D land tiles for those games.

The old-school graphics of DO are an asset in this way. I'm sure I'll be able to make some wild creatures and different landscapes in DO that I know I'd never have the time or ability to make for the 3D games. Plus, DO can randomize certain parts of the mods. If DO mods come out that are creative and fun, the gameplay will be absorbing enough that the outdated graphics won't matter. That's what I'm betting on, at least. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 15, 2002, 20:55: Message edited by: JJ Sonick ]